Kirilloff Injury?

[Loosey]

So, I don't if this has been announced or if anyone else has heard anything yet on this because I can't find it anywhere, but I heard Kirilloff may miss the whole season due to "lingering stuff".

 

I was at the game on Sunday and Tommy Watkins sat down in front of me to sit with some people he was friends with. I eventually chatted with him briefly and asked if Kirilloff was going to start the season in Cedar Rapids and his thoughts on him? He said he wasn't sure what's going on with him and added he might miss the season. I asked what happened and he just said "lingering stuff". I can't remember what happened with him last year injurywise, but that would be a bummer if he misses significant time. I hope I misunderstood what Tommy said.

[sftwinsfan]

I saw something in the prospect thread with him where someone mentioned that he might need Tommy John surgery, but nobody else responded to it, so I was hoping it was nothing.  That would be really unfortunate.

[old nurse]

Elbow injury of some sort last fall. I can't find any more detail than that.

 

[Seth Stohs]

He hurt his throwing elbow very late in the Elizabethton season and has been rehabbing it ever since. In his Q&A with Twins Daily last month, he said things were going well, but I haven't heard anything since then. 

[Heezy1323]

I don't have anything to add specific to Kirilloff, but my experience in treating UCL injuries has been that most pitchers don't have trouble in rehab until they reach around 80% of max effort. So as they are rehabbing from an injury/strain and working through the return to throwing protocol, they very frequently will go smoothly through the first portion of the program. The true test seems to be when they start to hit that 80% effort mark, particularly when they also increase the frequency of hard throwing. It's possible that (or something similar) is what has occurred here. I sure hope not...

[Guest]

Are Berrios, Gonsalves, Polanco and Gordon the only top prospects for the Twins in the last several years not to have a significant injury?

 

Off the top of my head:

Sano

Buxton

Kepler

Meyer

May

Jay

Burdi

Romero

Thorpe

Chargois

Melotakis

Javier

Vielma

Stewart

Rosario (well, he missed a lot of time)

 

Seems like a high injury rate for young athletes. Somewhere along the line, whether it's biomechanics, strength, flexibility, muscle imbalance, off-day or recovery training, poor attention to warning signals, something else or more than one of the above, something is not working correctly.

 

It also seems like low hanging fruit for improvement. Let me put it this way - if you want to improve your player development process, which has been very bad, the first thing to do is make sure they can maximize their training opportunities, which means, in English, keep them healthy.

[nytwinsfan]

Ugggh

[laloesch]

wow..fantastic

[DocBauer]

This would be awful if true. Then again, maybe just a setback and a slower start to his season and not really season ending?

 

Not to sound insensitive, but on a baseball only front, does this mean 1B for 2017 to ease the strain on his arm?

[theBOMisthebomb]

Are Berrios, Gonsalves, Polanco and Gordon the only top prospects for the Twins in the last several years not to have a significant injury?

Off the top of my head:

Sano

Buxton

Kepler

Meyer

May

Jay

Burdi

Romero

Thorpe

Chargois

Melotakis

Javier

Vielma

Stewart

Rosario (well, he missed a lot of time)

Seems like a high injury rate for young athletes. Somewhere along the line, whether it's biomechanics, strength, flexibility, muscle imbalance, off-day or recovery training, poor attention to warning signals, something else or more than one of the above, something is not working correctly.

It also seems like low hanging fruit for improvement. Let me put it this way - if you want to improve your player development process, which has been very bad, the first thing to do is make sure they can maximize their training opportunities, which means, in English, keep them healthy.

When you list the guys out like that it becomes even more disturbing. The entire organization can improve in the preventing/treating/diagnosing/rehabbing injuries field. Possibly Falvey/Levine can move the Twins to the modern day on this issue.

[Poli_Crandall]

LaVelle Neal Just confirmed it on Twitter.  Out of Baseball activities for 5months.  Damn

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">First round pick Alex Kirilloff needs Tommy John surgery on left elbow. Done for year</p>— LaVelle E. Neal III (@LaVelleNeal) <a href="https://twitter.com/LaVelleNeal/status/836942303918977024">March 1, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[GP830]

TJ confirmed.

[Dantes929]

 

I don't have anything to add specific to Kirilloff, but my experience in treating UCL injuries has been that most pitchers don't have trouble in rehab until they reach around 80% of max effort. So as they are rehabbing from an injury/strain and working through the return to throwing protocol, they very frequently will go smoothly through the first portion of the program. The true test seems to be when they start to hit that 80% effort mark, particularly when they also increase the frequency of hard throwing. It's possible that (or something similar) is what has occurred here. I sure hope not...

Seems like if you can reach the 80% mark easily it would still be possible to swing the  bat when you reach that point.   Does this injury keep a guy from hitting and if not why don't these guys just DH for the season while still going through the rehab process.   I wondered about it when Sano went down also.   

[Mike Sixel]

That sucks. A year of development, and damaged body. That sucks. Good luck to him!

[Dave The Dastardly]

Okay, let's think about this. If TJ surgery had not been "invented" (for lack of a better word), what would have happened to all those players who have undergone the procedure? Completely out of baseball? Uber drivers?

 

Secondly, is the injury suddenly becoming more prevalent because there's a cure? Or is the increase in occurrence somehow connected to strength training, flexibility drills, analytics (had to throw that in there because we could probably draw a correlation, statistically speaking) or simple overuse from what's become a 365-day season?

 

A curious mind wants to know.

[Thrylos]

This is on the Twins' medical stuff.  He injured it on 8/28.  Had he had the procedure on 9/8 instead of 3/8, he should have been ready by now.    Somebody needs to tell them that rest and rehab does not work.

 

Rare injury for HS OFs btw; If I were the Twins, I'd have a look at his dad's training methods

[Heezy1323]

 

Seems like if you can reach the 80% mark easily it would still be possible to swing the  bat when you reach that point.   Does this injury keep a guy from hitting and if not why don't these guys just DH for the season while still going through the rehab process.   I wondered about it when Sano went down also.   

Just to clarify, I was talking about non-operative rehab from a UCL strain/sprain.

 

The majority of players who have this injury are (obviously) pitchers, so the situation doesn't come up frequently. I think it would certainly be an option to have a player DH for the season and have TJ at the end of the year, but that would still likely impact their throwing at the beginning of the following season to some degree. It seems unlikely to me that it would be done unless the player was an excellent hitter who didn't offer a lot in the field anyways, and also was at the major league level.

[Heezy1323]

 

Okay, let's think about this. If TJ surgery had not been "invented" (for lack of a better word), what would have happened to all those players who have undergone the procedure? Completely out of baseball? Uber drivers?

 

Secondly, is the injury suddenly becoming more prevalent because there's a cure? Or is the increase in occurrence somehow connected to strength training, flexibility drills, analytics (had to throw that in there because we could probably draw a correlation, statistically speaking) or simple overuse from what's become a 365-day season?

 

A curious mind wants to know.

Clearly these are excellent questions that have complex answers, but I will throw in my 2 cents.

-I think if TJ hadn't been invented, these players would likely be 'weeded out' for lack of a better term, or learn to cope and compete with diminished velocity/control

-We are certainly committing significant research time and expense to trying to answer question 2, but it is presently unclear. I think the likely answer is some combination of all of your explanations. It is clear that as the average fastball speed has increased, there has been a corresponding increase in UCL injuries, and thus TJ surgery. This is likely due to the other things you mention- bigger, stronger players; year-round baseball, and increased awareness and surveillance. Personally, I think the radar gun, emphasis on strikeouts and focus on 'velo' is a major contributor. One can strengthen muscles/tendons, but for the most part ligaments (such as the UCL) have an inherent strength that doesn't increase along with the muscles.

[Heezy1323]

 

This is on the Twins' medical stuff.  He injured it on 8/28.  Had he had the procedure on 9/8 instead of 3/8, he should have been ready by now.    Somebody needs to tell them that rest and rehab does not work.

 

Rare injury for HS OFs btw; If I were the Twins, I'd have a look at his dad's training methods

The 'non operative treatment always fails' argument is common at TD, but the data is, at best, conflicting. Below is a link to a 2014 study showing that the return to play rates were actually better for non operative treatment than for surgical treatment (for incomplete tears). There are certainly other studies reporting lower success rates for non operative treatment, but I don't believe it's accurate to say rest/rehab 'does not work'. That is not the debate. The debate is how frequently, and for which specific injuries does rest/rehab work?

 

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2325967114S00021

[ashbury]

Please continue the discussion in the Article thread.

 

twinsdaily.com/topic/25074-article-alex-kirilloff-to-miss-2017-after-tommy-john-surgery