Reusse makes case for Danny Santana at shortstop

[Mike Sixel]

I think criticism is too easy. What I most wonder about is whether this is a column that leads us back to the article posted in TD about the mishandling of Polanco by the Twins. Did we do the best job with the talents and potential of Santana?

He wasn't all that good in the minors. I don't know why people are surprised this is who be has turned out to be. This isn't about the twins, imo.

[Kwak]

I think Ruesse's article about Santana at SS was to serve as a counter balance to the longer article about Ehire Adrianza in the same edition.  It was clearly stated that E.A. can't hit fer xxxx but that he excels in the field and he serves as evidence that the Twins are placing more emphasis on defense. I guess a month from now we'll have an answer to that "emphasis", but for now we get two articles to serve as discussion/debate topics. Considering I have little respect for Santana's hitting, I see no role for him as SS or for that matter in the OF!

[Willihammer]

 

"Nervous, failed attempt" pretty much describes his career at shortstop. He was an E machine in the minors. I think we're past the point of giving Santana the benefit of doubt based on his athleticism, right? 

For the record, Santana was less of an E machine at SS than Polanco in the minors, although it was very close.

He also had more range.

[Thrylos]

 

For the record, Santana was less of an E machine at SS than Polanco in the minors, although it was very close.

He also had more range.

 

career .932 vs .935 fielding %.   With one detail missing.  Kinda big:  Polanco last played SS at age 21 and Santana at age 24.

 

So let's compare apples to apples:  

 

Polanco's  FP at SS up to age 21: .932

Santana's FP at SS up to age 21: .926

 

No Santana was more of an error machine than Polanco at the same age.

[big dog]

 

A fact for evidence, or a complete sentence might be a good place to start to make a case.

Ummm....I was mirroring the title of the thread.  Sorry if that was too subtle.

[Linus]

He has some tools and is youngish. I can see why two different front offices have held out hope. I don't think he will ever hit enough to stick but stranger things have happened. Let's not forget that he actually did OK in CF when he was thrown out there when Escobar and Nunez were disasters in left. With regards to SS his arm and range are clearly better than polanco.

[TheLeviathan]

This is the second time in a week that Molitor has publicly questioned our developmental processes in the past. 

 

[Doomtints]

Santana is a bit of a holdover from a terrible era. If he deserves a shot give it to him, but don't dink around if he doesn't immediately work out. Move on.

 

We know that at least two shortstops will no longer be with the team after spring training. He's the least likely to make it. But there's nothing wrong with him being part of the mix during ST. More options are better.

[DaveW]

Santana has NO Business being on this 25 man roster, it's insane that he's even an option to be a starting SS for the Twins this year. Over the last few years Santana has literally been one of the very worst hitters in all of baseball, and his defense is not good to boot!

 

[Willihammer]

 

career .932 vs .935 fielding %.   With one detail missing.  Kinda big:  Polanco last played SS at age 21 and Santana at age 24.

 

So let's compare apples to apples:  

 

Polanco's  FP at SS up to age 21: .932

Santana's FP at SS up to age 21: .926

 

No Santana was more of an error machine than Polanco at the same age.

They were both moved off the position because of the errors. Polanco before Santana. But we're talking about one guy like he's a viable option for the big league club and laughing about Reusse's sugggestion that the other guy ought to be considered too.

 

I agree that Santana's bat makes it kind of a pointless distinction but just though the record should be set straight- Polanco's as bad (or nearly). If Santana's glove isn't good enough to play MLB-caliber shortstop, than neither is Polanco's.

 

The natural solution IMO is to get Polanco some OF reps in preparation for taking over DanSan's utility role, with Escobar taking over SS. He's the only guy in the system (except maybe the Ahemfluenza guy) with enough glove for it.

[Jacksson]

Nothing wrong with Sano's weight, he plays Tight End, right?

[Jacksson]

 

career .932 vs .935 fielding %.   With one detail missing.  Kinda big:  Polanco last played SS at age 21 and Santana at age 24.

 

So let's compare apples to apples:  

 

Polanco's  FP at SS up to age 21: .932

Santana's FP at SS up to age 21: .926

 

No Santana was more of an error machine than Polanco at the same age.

Perhaps because he could get to more balls in play

[Willihammer]

Heyman says Twins made a "brief play" for Jose Iglesias over the winter.

http://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/inside-baseball-jon-heyman-final-offseason-grades/

[DaveW]

 

Heyman says Twins made a "brief play" for Jose Iglesias over the winter.

http://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/inside-baseball-jon-heyman-final-offseason-grades/

Yikes.

[Brandon Warne]

Stick with Polanco, at least he can hit.

 

I'm the most outspoken advocate of Santana -- and that's damning with faint praise -- but he should not be in the consideration for regular playing time. No way, no how. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

Yikes.

 

Iglesias can really, really pick it. I wouldn't have a real issue with that. 

[Willihammer]

 

Iglesias can really, really pick it. I wouldn't have a real issue with that. 

I wouldn't either, depending on the price.

[Brandon Warne]

With that said, Ehire Adrianza might be able to do exactly what Iglesias did last season (.255/.306/.336 with great defense)

[Kwak]

 

They were both moved off the position because of the errors. Polanco before Santana. But we're talking about one guy like he's a viable option for the big league club and laughing about Reusse's sugggestion that the other guy ought to be considered too.

 

I agree that Santana's bat makes it kind of a pointless distinction but just though the record should be set straight- Polanco's as bad (or nearly). If Santana's glove isn't good enough to play MLB-caliber shortstop, than neither is Polanco's.

 

The natural solution IMO is to get Polanco some OF reps in preparation for taking over DanSan's utility role, with Escobar taking over SS. He's the only guy in the system (except maybe the Ahemfluenza guy) with enough glove for it.

Adrianza?  I expect him to be the back-up SS and to be on the 25-man roster.  He will be waiting-in-the-wings for the moment that Molitor can't stomach any more Polanco-as-SS.

[Brandon Warne]

ZiPS on Adrianza says .242/.304/.367

 

Not too far off from Iglesias, with no way to know for sure how the reportedly very good glove would play in larger sampling. 

 

I'm OK with Adrianza at the cost, then.

[kab21]

It is nice of Reusse to say something ridiculous for those slow winter days when nothing else is happening.

I am terrified to think of a Polanco/Sano left side of an infield this year. I think the right move is to play them for the development of both (and Vargas) to see what you have with those players but I am not sure that either of them plays more than a season or two at SS/3B. And it is almost impossible that they continue to play together on the left side of the infield.

[Mike Sixel]

This is the second time in a week that Molitor has publicly questioned our developmental processes in the past.

Convenient to blame others for your lack of results.

[DJSim22]

The Twins could just as easy release Escobar and Santana and probably find someone just as good or a better fit off waivers after spring training.  I have nothing against either guy, but they seem very expendable. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The Twins could just as easy release Escobar and Santana and probably find someone just as good or a better fit off waivers after spring training.  I have nothing against either guy, but they seem very expendable. 

Santana more so than Escobar, IMO.

 

Escobar's 2014/2015 is about all you can ask for out of a utility infielder. He was adequate most of the time, occasionally peaking to quite good.

 

His 2016 was a disaster front to back but that could have been injury-related.

[drjim]

Considering the options, I don't think any path can be ruled out.

 

That said, and though I'm more willing to give Santana a spot on the roster than most, I don't see it. He's the 4th guy on the bench if anything.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Convenient to blame others for your lack of results.

I said the same thing at the end of the season when he cited the lack of fundamentals learned in the minors as the reason for struggle. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

Unlike most other poster's here, I agree with the thought.  Santana is a good player and I think he would benefit with knowing where is he is playing everyday.  The Twins for some reason always seem to do this with players, they only give the player a short time to show their stuff.  Santana had a great rookie year and has shows glimpses (although small ones) of an offensive skill set.  He went from SS to CF and has been all over.  The only time he have the SS job he did poorly, I agree on that however, nothing can be hurt by giving him an other shot.  Polonco's D is worse then Santana and Poloncos range is horrific.  I love Escobar, but as the bench INF guy playing three times a week.  GO DANNY!

I hope you're having supplies delivered to the island while you're out there....

[Jham]

 

I hope you're having supplies delivered to the island while you're out there....

People need to stop being so closed-minded.  Is it a long shot at this point?  Sure.  But it's far from impossible that Santana could turn it around and have a good career.  Jason Bartlett debuted at 25 and had some up and down action before becoming solid enough in the field and at the plate.  

Guys cry about May and Sano being "jerked around" but are quick to pile on Dan San.  No one was jerked around more than Santana.  Everyone was so excited to proclaim that they called his regression based on his BABIP.  Everyone was so happy to be right.  Don't even try to argue that there weren't a fair amount of posters who were smugly satisfied if not downright happy to see him fail.  

He hit 7 HR in 430 PA his rookie year.  He hit 2 in the next 2 years.  He hit 27 doubles in 2014.  20 the next 2 years.  That's not BABIP.  BABIP regresses to the mean.  7HR to 0 and 2.  That's not luck.  That's an utter loss of ability to drive the ball. Did the league adjust, or did the organization try to turn him into a slap hitter?  I think it's the latter.  Unfortunately, I think the guy who told him to slap the ball and run is still the manager.  I think that may be why he has an odd willingness to stick with Santana.  Guilt or stubborness. 

 

Regardless, I don't see Santana as less talented than Bartlett in the field or at the plate.  And I would not be shocked if a more aggressive swing and approach at the plate could lead to more success, less pressure, and better defensive play as well.  At least, I don't think anyone should be ridiculed for believing that player and tools that splashed in 2014 might still be there.

[KirbyDome89]

 

People need to stop being so closed-minded.  Is it a long shot at this point?  Sure.  But it's far from impossible that Santana could turn it around and have a good career.  Jason Bartlett debuted at 25 and had some up and down action before becoming solid enough in the field and at the plate.  

Guys cry about May and Sano being "jerked around" but are quick to pile on Dan San.  No one was jerked around more than Santana.  Everyone was so excited to proclaim that they called his regression based on his BABIP.  Everyone was so happy to be right.  Don't even try to argue that there weren't a fair amount of posters who were smugly satisfied if not downright happy to see him fail.  

He hit 7 HR in 430 PA his rookie year.  He hit 2 in the next 2 years.  He hit 27 doubles in 2014.  20 the next 2 years.  That's not BABIP.  BABIP regresses to the mean.  7HR to 0 and 2.  That's not luck.  That's an utter loss of ability to drive the ball. Did the league adjust, or did the organization try to turn him into a slap hitter?  I think it's the latter.  Unfortunately, I think the guy who told him to slap the ball and run is still the manager.  I think that may be why he has an odd willingness to stick with Santana.  Guilt or stubborness. 

 

Regardless, I don't see Santana as less talented than Bartlett in the field or at the plate.  And I would not be shocked if a more aggressive swing and approach at the plate could lead to more success, less pressure, and better defensive play as well.  At least, I don't think anyone should be ridiculed for believing that player and tools that splashed in 2014 might still be there.

Is everybody being close-minded or are you being overly optimistic? Is it impossible for him to repeat 2014? No. Is there even a remote possibility that happens? Probably not. 

 

Nobody was jerked around more than Danny Santana? Are you serious!? He was one of the WORST players in baseball the past two seasons yet he was constantly penciled into the starting lineup despite that fact. The ONLY reason he saw the field as much as he did the past two seasons was Molitor's odd attachment to him. I don't believe anybody on this board is happy to watch players or the team fail. He was an obvious candidate for regression, one glance at a comparison between his rookie year and minor league career was enough to see that he was likely to come back to Earth, and he has. 

 

Those stats would certainly be a regression to the mean if you include his minor league track record as well. If Molitor is forcing Santana to be a slap hitter is he also in his ear telling him to never draw a walk and continue to boot balls on the infield and take terrible routes in the outfield? I think it is much more likely that he is the player we saw in the minors and each of the past two seasons than it is that 2014 was the real Dantana. 

[glunn]

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