Berardino: Vargas took hitting lessons from Manny

[Seth Stohs]

http://www.twincities.com/2017/02/19/minnesota-twins-slugger-kennys-vargas-took-hitting-lessons-from-manny-ramirez/

 

Mike Berardino talked to Kennys Vargas and learned that he spent a full week learning hitting with Manny Ramirez.

 

 

“He taught me a lot,” Vargas said. “He always talked to me about the uppercut swing, the elevated ball. He said that was the key for him to hit so many home runs (555) in the majors. He said no matter where the pitch location was, he tried to elevate every pitch.”

 

The two went out to eat and talked about a lot of things on and off the field. 

[Thrylos]

I think that the most important quote is the one:

 

 

 

He encouraged Vargas to hold firm to his newfound belief in the power of the big fly. While Twins instructors have been after Vargas for years to cut down his swing and use the whole field, as Ortiz experienced all those years ago, Big Papi’s old Boston runningmate told Vargas to forget that.“Manny said, ‘I’d prefer you to hit a popup to the shortstop than a groundball,’ “ Vargas said. “He taught me location: ‘Just elevate. You’ve got to hit that pitch on top.’ He told me not to let my hands go down and try to get focused on one point during my swing.”

 

I am sure that 2017 will be an evaluation year for those instructors, but I hope that heads will roll next off-season.  At least in the major league level there has been positive change as far as hitting goes.

[DocBauer]

Very interesting read indeed! I understand trying to make every player as complete and we'll versed of a hitter as he can be. For instance, being nothing but a pull hitter would eventually derail your success as well. But every player is not like every other player. Same with pitchers. They are not cookie cutter figures that have the exact same physical abilities, mental approach, hand eye coordination, etc. As managers, coaches and instructors, each player should be coached and handled differently. I can't honestly say that the Twins approach through the years has indeed been of the cookie cutter mentality, I'm just too far removed to know if that situation is true, or more true for them than other organizations. But if this theory holds any weight, then I sure am glad there are new guys in charge to bring about a different approach in player development.

[TheLeviathan]

My god do we need to fire everyone in the organization that is still stuck on the Tom Kelly, shorten your swing, nonsense.  That quote.....maddening.

[Dantes929]

Back to this?   Nothing wrong with pulling the ball and nothing wrong with hitting to the other field but trying to pull an unpullable ball is as bad as trying to trying to hit a pullable ball the other way (unless you are Mauer at his best).     Ortiz spray charts in his Boston days are very similar to his spray charts in Minnesota.   Ortz had great balance and plate coverage but he still stepped toward the pitcher when swinging and he didn't open up too soon.    Dozier was figured out until he figured out how to handle pitches other than up and in.   He is still a pull hitter but learning to go with the pitch more has revitialized  his performance.     For those that think Oriz pulled everything here are his spray charts for the last 5 years.   His power is pulling but he got plenty of hits the other way.    http://www.fangraphs.com/spraycharts.aspx?playerid=745&position=DH&type=battedball&pid2=745&ss1=2012&se1=2012&ss2=2012&se2=2016&cht1=battedball&cht2=battedball&vs1=ALL&vs2=ALL

[Bark's Lounge]

I know Manny has his skeletons, but I am very pleased Vargas went this route. No matter Ramirez's transgressions, he was a ultra tremendous hitter.

[mikelink45]

I think my biggest issue and most consistent post has been about the coaches.  The approach needs to be more flexible and strong to get the potential of the individual moved forward and secondly, we need Latino, black, Asian coaches.  The MLB has become a landscape of immigrants and they need to hear voices that they recognize.  I am pleased that Vargas talked with Manny.  This is a very mature approach by a young player with a lot of potential that the team has not been able to harness. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

My god do we need to fire everyone in the organization that is still stuck on the Tom Kelly, shorten your swing, nonsense.  That quote.....maddening.

That philosophy had its day, but yes, it's long past time the Twins get with the times.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Also, what's with Berardino cranking out multiple good stories a day? Kudos my man.

 

LaVelle must be feeling the heat to get that restaurant review in to the Strib no later than COB Thursday.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Back to this?   Nothing wrong with pulling the ball and nothing wrong with hitting to the other field but trying to pull an unpullable ball is as bad as trying to trying to hit a pullable ball the other way (unless you are Mauer at his best).     Ortiz spray charts in his Boston days are very similar to his spray charts in Minnesota.   Ortz had great balance and plate coverage but he still stepped toward the pitcher when swinging and he didn't open up too soon.    Dozier was figured out until he figured out how to handle pitches other than up and in.   He is still a pull hitter but learning to go with the pitch more has revitialized  his performance.     For those that think Oriz pulled everything here are his spray charts for the last 5 years.   His power is pulling but he got plenty of hits the other way.    http://www.fangraphs.com/spraycharts.aspx?playerid=745&position=DH&type=battedball&pid2=745&ss1=2012&se1=2012&ss2=2012&se2=2016&cht1=battedball&cht2=battedball&vs1=ALL&vs2=ALL

 

You know what this says to me?  That the manner in which the Twins were rigidly pushing their mantra was coming off poorly.  This team showed far too much rigidity in their ways for far too long and that kind of rigidity probably came off to players as inflexible.

 

Sure, we want guys to take outside pitches and spray them the other way, but we also want them to do what they do well and focus on that.  It seems to me that the Twins were teaching Twins Way so hard that they ignored (and pushed their players) to ignore their strengths in favor of the Twins Way mantra.

 

If that's continuing (and it sure sounds like it from that comment) - I want it gone.  Yesterday.

[Seth Stohs]

 

That philosophy had its day, but yes, it's long past time the Twins get with the times.

 

It's still 100% valuable, but it's value is dependent upon the hitter. There's never anything wrong with using the whole field. But when you're a guy like Vargas, it should be about elevation because he has the power to hit the ball out to any part of the field. 

 

What I'm most excited about with these coaches is that the philosophy is - or maybe it could be - individualized. What works for Dozier may not work for Mauer. What works for Sano may not work for Polanco. What works for Castro may not work for Vargas. Let them be athletes and let their talent take over.

 

But if they are susceptible to certain pitches, MLB pitchers will figure that out in a hurry. So, being able to cover the whole plate is important. 

[Dantes929]

 

You know what this says to me?  That the manner in which the Twins were rigidly pushing their mantra was coming off poorly.  This team showed far too much rigidity in their ways for far too long and that kind of rigidity probably came off to players as inflexible.

 

Sure, we want guys to take outside pitches and spray them the other way, but we also want them to do what they do well and focus on that.  It seems to me that the Twins were teaching Twins Way so hard that they ignored (and pushed their players) to ignore their strengths in favor of the Twins Way mantra.

 

If that's continuing (and it sure sounds like it from that comment) - I want it gone.  Yesterday.

If they were or are teaching going the other way just for the sake of going the other way then I agree with you.  As far as I can tell Dozier worked on going with the pitch at the start of last year and struggled but it paid off in the 2nd half and I think he is a better hitter for doing it.    Ortiz may have been a much better hitter with the Red Sox because of the work that he did with the Twins  that simply didn't pay off right away.   We will never know.    What I have seen at various times with Cuddyer, Young, Valencia, Morneau, Dozier and Willingham is trying to pull the ball by opening up too soon and stepping more toward the line.     Our problem lately hasn't been a lack of power but a surplus of strikeouts.   I doubt if the strikeouts are a result of teaching to go with the pitch so maybe they should teach that a little bit better or get some one that does.   Just like pitching to contact or any other theory, it works if it is executed properly.    Twins haven't done any of it properly.   

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Good article by a UNC graduate. I hope Vargas will remember this advice and can let it ground him as a person and as a player.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I could have sworn we were bashing coaches earlier this year when Kepler admitted that his resurgence was because he approached BP with a plan (particularly using the whole field)... at some point this is complaining for the sake of complaining. I have no problems expecting hitters to know how to an outside pitch to the opposite field, especially if they are getting a steady diet of pitches that they cannot pull. I have no problems telling a hitter to pull the heck out of that high and inside pitch as well or using an upper cut swing to elevate everything.

 

Oh, and lest we forget, Ramirez was a career .312 hitter with an OBP .100 points higher, he had no problems making contact, something Vargas cannot claim.

[D.C Twins]

....so can we anticipate a little more of Vargas being Vargas this year?

[Riverbrian]

If they had him shorten up his swing in the minors it's ok...  Sounds like he should have an extra club in his bag. Sometimes you need to pull out the sand wedge on occasion. 

 

Even working on the wrong things can pay off later. 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

  Just like pitching to contact or any other theory, it works if it is executed properly.    Twins haven't done any of it properly.

 

I agree, but also like any theory you can over emphasize to the detriment of a more balanced approach. If Twins coaches weren't emphasizing elevation than that is an issue. He shouldn't need Manny for that.

[Riverbrian]

 

I agree, but also like any theory you can over emphasize to the detriment of a more balanced approach. If Twins coaches weren't emphasizing elevation than that is an issue. He shouldn't need Manny for that.

 

It's pretty typical for someone searching for something with desperation to prove himself. 

 

He's fighting for a career and he will grab anything that sounds good like a tree branch hanging over the rapids and he will tell himself and others that he has a plan. It's all part of convincing himself and others to join team Kennys.  

 

This is a pretty typical reaction for anyone who hasn't been filled with a lot of confidence from the manager. 

 

Most everyone has seen this type of thing before... no matter the profession. 

 

Molitor believing in him will go a much longer way than anything Manny has to say. 

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

It's still 100% valuable, but it's value is dependent upon the hitter. There's never anything wrong with using the whole field. But when you're a guy like Vargas, it should be about elevation because he has the power to hit the ball out to any part of the field. 

 

What I'm most excited about with these coaches is that the philosophy is - or maybe it could be - individualized. What works for Dozier may not work for Mauer. What works for Sano may not work for Polanco. What works for Castro may not work for Vargas. Let them be athletes and let their talent take over.

 

But if they are susceptible to certain pitches, MLB pitchers will figure that out in a hurry. So, being able to cover the whole plate is important.

 

Yes - thanks. It's important I keep in mind the Twins have been turning over coaches faster the past few years. Better them than their young players.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

You know what this says to me? That the manner in which the Twins were rigidly pushing their mantra was coming off poorly. This team showed far too much rigidity in their ways for far too long and that kind of rigidity probably came off to players as inflexible.

 

Sure, we want guys to take outside pitches and spray them the other way, but we also want them to do what they do well and focus on that. It seems to me that the Twins were teaching Twins Way so hard that they ignored (and pushed their players) to ignore their strengths in favor of the Twins Way mantra.

 

If that's continuing (and it sure sounds like it from that comment) - I want it gone. Yesterday.

sure, but can you teach rigid flexibility?

[Doomtints]

This is the way to hit against power pitchers. The "Twins Way" is how to hit against finesse pitchers. With all the power pitchers that end up in the postseason it is no surprise how the Twins failed miserably in the playoffs during their last run of success.

 

Vargas should indeed keep doing what he's doing.  

[nicksaviking]

Well either Vargas was proactive enough to get ahold of one of the game's greatest hitters on his own volition, or the new Twins brass encouraged him to do so. Sounds like good news either way. The philosophies of the past regime can certainly be regretted but are no longer valid stones to be cast at the team. Besides, didn't they already say that they did not want a cookie cutter approach to hitting? This is just reinforcement of what they previously stated.

 

Besides, after what Dozier and Willingham before him have done to the LF seats at TF, it really isn't surprising that the new guys would encourage a pull-happy, upper-cut approach, at least when he's batting right handed. Takes a heck of a lot of loft to get it over the wall in RF when batting as a lefty also.

[Jham]

This is the way to hit against power pitchers. The "Twins Way" is how to hit against finesse pitchers. With all the power pitchers that end up in the postseason it is no surprise how the Twins failed miserably in the playoffs during their last run of success.

 

Vargas should indeed keep doing what he's doing.

Could you explain? I mean upper cut swings are naturally longer, and lots of players will naturally shorten up against power arms. I'd agree that the Twins way of bunching hits is a tough way too win against great pitchers that don't leave many balls up. 1-0 looks better than 0-0 with a runner on first.

 

Personally, i thought Vargas came back with a noticeably shorter more powerful swing. I'd like to see him keep that.

 

He doesn't have the hand eye coordination that Manny and papi had. They could get away with a loop (mostly). Vargas isn't that talented.

[Doomtints]

Power pitchers are good at inducing infield grounders. This is an anti-infield-grounder swinging style (as long as the timing is right).

 

Ultimately it would be good if Vargas (and all of the Twins) knew how to do both types of swings and when.