Article: Official Winter Meetings Wednesday Thread

[darin617]

 

Why would anyone select Landa in the Rule 5 draft, and have to carry him on the mlb roster, when they could have just signed him as a minor league free agent?

 

I am guessing that he might be available in the minor league part of the draft. If that is correct he would not take a 40 man roster spot.

[darin617]

 

Yes.  Why are you so down on Gordon?  You wanted the Twins to draft him.  He's a HS kid so it takes longer.  

 

Besides him be a high school player the Twins "were" well known for slowly promoting players. Hopefully the new brain trust is a touch more aggressive. But it would not take much.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I am guessing that he might be available in the minor league part of the draft. If that is correct he would not take a 40 man roster spot.

I don't think so. They can protect quite a few players for the minor league phase.

[darin617]

 

Twins could trade their rule v pick.  I find that surprising.  

 

Didn't the Twins trade rule 5 picks with the Marlin's and that's how the Twins got Johan Santana?

Edited December 7, 2016 by darin617

[Baseball Bat]

I'm not interested in rule 5 rumors. They should focus on Dozier and Santana. The White Sox are our here committing highway robbery. Has to be a sellers Market developing. Peak Value for both Dozier and Santana, would be mistake not to sell

[Otto von Ballpark]

Didn't the Twins trade rule 5 picks with Houson and that's how the Twins got Johan Santana?

Florida. Twins has first pick, picked the Marlins choice of player, then flipped him to the Marlins for their choice Santana and some extra cash.

[mazeville]

I think in this market I look to trade Dozier, Santana and Kintzler. Because ... damn. 

 

I get that Eaton is an underrated player with a good contract. But Giolito and Lopez? Wow.

 

White Sox farm system is stacked now.

[jimmer]

 

I think in this market I look to trade Dozier, Santana and Kintzler. Because ... damn. 

 

I get that Eaton is an underrated player with a good contract. But Giolito and Lopez? Wow.

 

White Sox farm system is stacked now.

Eaton is under team control through 2021 (5 years) at a very good salary (38.4M).  GREAT value there.

He was a 6 WAR player last year, 12.8 over the last 3 years.

Dozier is older and under control for two years

He was at 5.9 WAR last year and 13.9 WAR over the last 3 years.

Eaton has considerably more value, about 30M more if Eaton plays CF the whole time, which I doubt. More if he plays a corner.

Edited December 8, 2016 by jimmer

[Oxtung]

I think in this market I look to trade Dozier, Santana and Kintzler. Because ... damn. 

 

I get that Eaton is an underrated player with a good contract. But Giolito and Lopez? Wow.

 

White Sox farm system is stacked now.

The really scary thing is they could still trade Quintana, Abreu, Melky Cabrera, Robertson, etc... Think about what kind of haul they could bring back if they wanted to go full on tear down.

[jimmer]

 

The really scary thing is they could still trade Quintana, Abreu, Melky Cabrera, Robertson, etc... Think about what kind of haul they could bring back if they wanted to go full on tear down.

exactly what they should do

[mazeville]

 

The really scary thing is they could still trade Quintana, Abreu, Melky Cabrera, Robertson, etc... Think about what kind of haul they could bring back if they wanted to go full on tear down.

 

They have a lot of talent on the team. You wonder why they couldn't get over the hump. 

 

I think if I'm a White Sox fan I might be mad. But if you're going to do a rebuild, do a rebuild. Tear it all down and collect assets that will help you compete over the long term. 

[mazeville]

 

Eaton is under team control through 2021 (5 years) at a very good salary (38.4M).  GREAT value there.

He was a 6 WAR player last year, 12.8 over the last 3 years.

Dozier is older and under control for two years

He was at 5.9 WAR last year and 13.9 WAR over the last 3 years.

Eaton has considerably more value.

 

I'm not saying he's not worth as much as Dozier. But that was one heck of a return for Adam Eaton. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I agree. A team like Seattle or Baltimore needs the ~200 steady innings Santana could provide than rolling the dice on upside. A team like the Dodgers need the potential upside more than innings.

I really think people need to go back and see what actually constitutes a #3 pitcher in reality.  People toss Santana's name around like this assuming he has no upside despite posting an ERA sub 3.4 in the AL with good K numbers for a starter and 180+ innings. The average MLB ERA was around 4.3 this year...

 

There are few teams in baseball that can say that Santana would not be an upgrade, and we don't do ourselves any favors by knocking the guy.  He's a good pitcher.

[jimmer]

 

They have a lot of talent on the team. You wonder why they couldn't get over the hump. 

 

I think if I'm a White Sox fan I might be mad. But if you're going to do a rebuild, do a rebuild. Tear it all down and collect assets that will help you compete over the long term. 

Only problem with trying to sell that is that the hated Cubs just won the W Series.

[jimmer]

 

I'm not saying he's not worth as much as Dozier. But that was one heck of a return for Adam Eaton. 

I think he's worth more quite a bit than Dozier.  The ONLY problem with Eaton is they will likely move him back to CF.  So he loses a bit of value going from a very good RF to a below average CF.

Edited December 8, 2016 by jimmer

[BuxtonBandwagon]

 

I think he's worth more quite a bit than Dozier.  The ONLY problem with Eaton is they will likely move him back to CF.  So he loses a bit of value going from a very good RF to a below average CF.

I get the 5 years of Eaton to 2 of Dozier helps Eaton a lot, but really a below average CF now gets a better trade than a player that was the best second basemen in baseball last year?

[Otto von Ballpark]

I really think people need to go back and see what actually constitutes a #3 pitcher in reality. People toss Santana's name around like this assuming he has no upside despite posting an ERA sub 3.4 in the AL with good K numbers for a starter and 180+ innings. The average MLB ERA was around 4.3 this year...

 

There are few teams in baseball that can say that Santana would not be an upgrade, and we don't do ourselves any favors by knocking the guy. He's a good pitcher.

No doubt. But teams aren't necessarily willing to give up a lot of talent to make that particular upgrade.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I get the 5 years of Eaton to 2 of Dozier helps Eaton a lot, but really a below average CF now gets a better trade than a player that was the best second basemen in baseball last year?

Below average defensively, not overall.

 

Also, might want to check on that for Dozier. Altuve and Canon both outpaced Dozier by a good amount in bWAR.

Edited December 8, 2016 by spycake

[jimmer]

 

I get the 5 years of Eaton to 2 of Dozier helps Eaton a lot, but really a below average CF now gets a better trade than a player that was the best second basemen in baseball last year?

Yes, because you take into account salary, years of control and age.  Eaton's surplus value is incredible.

 

Eaton is younger, is going to get paid 38.4 M for the next 5 years.  Even if you assume he'll play CF EVERY year of the next 5 (which I highly doubt), you're probably looking at a 3-3.5 WAR play per year.  So if we say 8M per WAR, and you figure an average of 3.25 WAR for 5 years, that's 130M.  130M minus 39 equals 91M of surplus. About 30M more than Dozier.

Edited December 8, 2016 by jimmer

[gunnarthor]

Well, the problem is that you are putting a lot of trust in the defensive calculations of WAR.  And he's going into one of the bigger NL parks.  There is real risk there. 

 

I also read on one of the White Sox forums that he has a player opt out but I don't think that's right. Cots just lists it as a team option.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

No doubt. But teams aren't necessarily willing to give up a lot of talent to make that particular upgrade.

 

this may be true, and if that's the case, you keep him.  That said, once the FA pitching market plays out, I'd think that someone would give up something of value for ESan.

 

Heck, Santiago might get a flier... though i'd lean towards trading Hector first.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think he's worth more quite a bit than Dozier. The ONLY problem with Eaton is they will likely move him back to CF. So he loses a bit of value going from a very good RF to a below average CF.

Rumor has it the Nats may move Harper to CF and keep Eaton in a corner.

[jimmer]

 

Rumor has it the Nats may move Harper to CF and keep Eaton in a corner.

that could happen. wouldn't surprise me.  if you read a few posts above, I mentioned that I doubt he plays CF the whole time.

Edited December 8, 2016 by jimmer

[Vanimal46]

Well, the problem is that you are putting a lot of trust in the defensive calculations of WAR. And he's going into one of the bigger NL parks. There is real risk there.

 

I also read on one of the White Sox forums that he has a player opt out but I don't think that's right. Cots just lists it as a team option.

I think in the ESPN article I read they said Eaton has 2 team options for 2020 and 2021 for a reasonable price in the $10 million range.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Vanimal46

[jimmer]

 

I think in the ESPN article I read they said Eaton has 2 team options for 2020 and 2021 for a reasonable price in the $10 million range.

easiest way to look is go to baseball reference for the player.  It gives the contract info.  You're right.  two team options.  like I said 5 years of team control.

[twins_89]

The White Sox front office really hit a home run with Eaton. Three years ago they traded Hector Santiago (who we just acquired for Nolasco/Meyer) for Eaton and now they flip Eaton for Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez, and Dane Dunning. Turning Santiago into 3 years of Eaton (he had 12.8 WAR with Chicago) and a massive prospect haul is unbelievably good management.

Edited December 8, 2016 by twins_89

[markos]

I get that Eaton is better than Span, but there are certain similarities there. I always thought that the Span trade was a little light. I think that Lopez and Giolito are both way better than Meyer at the time of their respective trades. I have a hard time thinking that Eaton is more than twice as valuable as Span was at the time. 

[gunnarthor]

 

I get that Eaton is better than Span, but there are certain similarities there. I always thought that the Span trade was a little light. I think that Lopez and Giolito are both way better than Meyer at the time of their respective trades. I have a hard time thinking that Eaton is more than twice as valuable as Span was at the time. 

More team control and Span had injury risks, as well.

[markos]

 

More team control and Span had injury risks, as well.

Yeah. Still, Lopez and Giolito are both big-league ready, while Meyer hadn't pitched a single inning above high-A. Anyway, water under the bridge...

[markos]

So I just realized that it is very possible that the White Sox will be good again before the Twins. Now I'm bummed.