POTUS Donald Trump

[DaveW]

 

Interesting development.

Yes potentially huge. That with all the other info being reported the last couple days (i.e Rubio was a target of the Russians and other candidates in the GOP!!!1!) there is NO way that Trump wasn't involved. None, I'm convinced.

I just hope he takes everyone down with him.

[gunnarthor]

If Flynn gets immunity it'll be because he can bring down bigger fish. Trump's done.

[DaveW]

“When you are given immunity, that means you have probably committed a crime.”

 

— Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, in an interview with NBC News on September 25, 2016.

[gunnarthor]

 

[Bark's Lounge]

If this **** breaks wide open and a majority of most of our instincts are proven to be correct - we are in for hell ride. Crazy stuff, but I need to see it to believe it.

[TheLeviathan]

I think it's really important to take this slowly and make sure the i's are dotted and t's crossed.  There is actually a chance to heal some divides here if this is handled with the utmost transparency.

 

And I truly hope we see Flynn granted immunity, because as gunnathor said....that means there is some real fire behind all this smoke.

[D. Hocking]

I cannot imagine there is any real loyalty among anyone in the inner circle.  If there really is fire behind the smoke and things do break wide open, I don't think any of them would think twice about stabbing each other in the back to save their own hides.  They make the later Roman emperors and their families seem grounded, rational, and functional.

[gunnarthor]

I think the FBI has them dead to rights and is just putting together a case. A so far unverified theory suggests that the FBI has Kushner on the phone at Trump Tower talking with Russian bank officials about investing in the Trump brand. Trump might also be on those tapes. (Hence his outrage about being wire tapped). 

 

 

[gunnarthor]

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/326651-ex-ethics-lawyer-to-george-w-bush-im-renaming-pet-canary#.WN3XnOmeJ_A.twitter

[Bark's Lounge]

 

I think the FBI has them dead to rights and is just putting together a case. A so far unverified theory suggests that the FBI has Kushner on the phone at Trump Tower talking with Russian bank officials about investing in the Trump brand. Trump might also be on those tapes. (Hence his outrage about being wire tapped). 

Is that unverified theory tied to the Nunes mess? It makes sense. Not that you would know.

[Squirrel]

I think it's really important to take this slowly and make sure the i's are dotted and t's crossed. There is actually a chance to heal some divides here if this is handled with the utmost transparency.

 

And I truly hope we see Flynn granted immunity, because as gunnathor said....that means there is some real fire behind all this smoke.

How much fire is the question, not that there is fire, imo. I really wonder how deep this goes and who knew? Congress did not seem at all interested in investigating these Russian ties, so I wonder, did Ryan know something, enough? Did Pence? Or did they think it wasn't as bad as it now appears? This is Watergate, but worse, all over again.

[D. Hocking]

I would love if somehow Ryan and his smug-evil mug was involved enough and/or knew enough to go down if this all comes to fruition.  There are so many bad characters in power right now that is mind-boggling. 

 

In honor of opening day.

 

 

[Squirrel]

I would love if somehow Ryan and his smug-evil mug was involved enough and/or knew enough to go down if this all comes to fruition.  There are so many bad characters in power right now that is mind-boggling. 

 

In honor of opening day.

 

Just seems like there was so much deflection and downplaying and unacknowledgement and trying to ignore it all by a good chunk of people, just makes me wonder ... did they know something, anything, how much, suspected or were they throwing a cover over it because, well, gotta keep the power and this looks bad ... or was there real complicity?

[PseudoSABR]

 

Interesting development.

Might not mean as much as we hope.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I have a question on the Gorsuch for SCOTUS dilemma. This is not something I am well versed in, so pardon me if this does not come off all all that great.

 

It seems like the Dems are going to block his appointment and from what I read and hear he seems to be  considered a moderate. I think that would be a bad play for the Dems. With this grotesque stubborn divide between the Reps and Dems wouldn't it look favorably upon the Dems for playing ball? Are there not more important battles to throw their resources into?

 

The whole Nuclear thing is in play... what a stupid ****ing construct the D's conjured up, now it will bite them in the ass probably. 

 

There could be something I do not know and Gorsuch is an awful prick and a bad person, please go easy on me with that - I am not on the Right Wing side of things. I am only curious.

Gorsuch is very right wing.  I don't know where you heard he is moderate but that's not true at all.   He goes out of his way to rule in favor of corporations and conservative interests.  That dissent in that Trucker case is some ice-chilling stuff, and really very problematic legal reasoning.   He'd be another Scalia/Alito/Thomas.  He's no near as moderate as Kennedy, and doesn't seem as reasonable as Roberts. 

 

The Dems need to block, because they can't be the only party who plays fair.  Not only does the Garland situation act as a motivating force, Trump lost the popular vote, and there's questions about his legitimacy.  It's not clear that the reasons for blocking Garland (will of the people) favor Gorsuch. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I think it's really important to take this slowly and make sure the i's are dotted and t's crossed.  There is actually a chance to heal some divides here if this is handled with the utmost transparency.

 

And I truly hope we see Flynn granted immunity, because as gunnathor said....that means there is some real fire behind all this smoke.

Yep, the Democrats need to reel in their joyous celebration over Trump's misfortune (and possible criminal activity) and work on bringing moderate Republicans into the fold.

 

Hang the far right teabaggers out to dry but coalition-build with the reasonable people across the aisle.

 

People don't seem to realize that some of the biggest heroes of Watergate were Republicans. They joined the Dems in bringing down Nixon and if Trump committed a crime here, we need that kind of coalition again.

[Doomtints]

As this goes on, the Koch Brothers are pushing through bills for a new constitutional convention in each state, and many states are already on board.

 

Step 1:  Manufacture a constitutional crisis

Step 2:  Fool the electorate into voting for a new constitutional convention

Step 3:  Stock the convention with the elite who have been working hard to amend our freedoms and steal from us.  Think "Citizens United" on steroids.  

Step 4:  Say goodbye to the constitution that protects us from these people.

 

Nice thoughts for your Friday.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yep, the Democrats need to reel in their joyous celebration over Trump's misfortune (and possible criminal activity) and work on bringing moderate Republicans into the fold.

 

Hang the far right teabaggers out to dry but coalition-build with the reasonable people across the aisle.

 

People don't seem to realize that some of the biggest heroes of Watergate were Republicans. They joined the Dems in bringing down Nixon and if Trump committed a crime here, we need that kind of coalition again.

 

Exactly, this is the Dem's chance to not just have an advantage with demographics in the future, but to bring in independents and moderates by being the party of integrity.  It won't last forever, but this could be big enough to have a sizable impact for the next decade and allow the Dems to permanently shift policy.

[PseudoSABR]

I wonder if this really might be a case where a sloppy cover-up leads to more legal liability than the supposed crimes themselves. 

[mikecgrimes]

While it seems clear to me that Trumps involvement with Russia is far more then he's willing to admit I'm still trying to figure out what the crime is.  I'd like them to find it as soon as possible as he's proven to be ineffective and an enemy of my politics.  Maybe the Democrats are delaying any major findings as they see he's ineffective and of course wouldn't prefer a more effective Republican in Pence without maximizing the political effect by having this all go on right before the midterms.

[USAFChief]

While it seems clear to me that Trumps involvement with Russia is far more then he's willing to admit I'm still trying to figure out what the crime is.  I'd like them to find it as soon as possible as he's proven to be ineffective and an enemy of my politics.  Maybe the Democrats are delaying any major findings as they see he's ineffective and of course wouldn't prefer a more effective Republican in Pence without maximizing the political effect by having this all go on right before the midterms.

So...it's the Democrats in congress intentionally keeping Trump in office? Holding off the powerless Republicans, who ate desperately trying to get the truth out, but can't overcome the minority party?

 

No doubt the liberal media are actively helping by suppressing information unfavorable to Trump, too, amiright?

[drjim]

That is a special type of conspiracy to think the Dems want to keep Trump in office because they're nervous about Pence.

 

The issue is that there might not be much of a crime aside from disclosure things. It's not a crime to partner with autocratic governments and advance their issues.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The Democrats shouldn't be scared of Pence and they probably aren't.

 

He'll be so ineffectual and so resented by the majority of the nation that he'll have to tread lightly if he wants to make it to 2020 in one piece.

 

Because we all know how fondly the nation looked at Ford's presidency.

[PseudoSABR]

To be fair to mikecgrimes I wondered 'out-loud' several pages back if it wouldn't be best for the Dems to string this thing along and keep Trump in office.  Would they actually conspire to do so? I doubt it.  

 

I still think the most likely scenario of any alleged collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign results with Trump having plausible deniability, and thus Trump himself evades any criminal liability (though perhaps not impeachment).

[drjim]

To be fair to mikecgrimes I wondered 'out-loud' several pages back if it wouldn't be best for the Dems to string this thing along and keep Trump in office. Would they actually conspire to do so? I doubt it.

 

I still think the most likely scenario of any alleged collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign results with Trump having plausible deniability, and thus Trump himself evades any criminal liability (though perhaps not impeachment).

I really hope Democrats are not as irresponsible as Republicans to entrust Trump with the national security apparatus any longer than is absolutely necessary, no matter what short term political gain there might be.

 

Perhaps I'm the naive one here.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't think the Democrats would do that simply because it's akin to holding a hand grenade for as long as possible before throwing it.

 

Just throw the grenade. Don't get cute. Take the opportunity while it's available because you can't predict the future.

[snepp]

 

I don't think the Democrats would do that simply because it's akin to holding a hand grenade for as long as possible before throwing it.

Just throw the grenade. Don't get cute. Take the opportunity while it's available because you can't predict the future.

 

More like carrying an entire suitcase full of high explosives running on a timer with no display.

[Brock Beauchamp]

More like carrying an entire suitcase full of high explosives running on a timer with no display.

Also this.

[DaveW]

Yeah, Dems want Trump out asap. The fallout with the GOP will be massive.

 

Ford >>>Pence

[drjim]

Yeah, Dems want Trump out asap. The fallout with the GOP will be massive.

 

Ford >>>Pence

Yes on all accounts.