Acceptable 1st Basemen

[Guest]

As far as Mauer goes, Fangraphs listed him #3 for the AL Gold Glove at 1B in their article about AL Gold Glove.  If he [could stay healthy and hit something like he used to, he wouldn't keep getting pulled and] would have gotten more recognition.  

 

Mauer was 3rd in the AL in DRS with +6 with only 831 innings played.  The guy in front had +8 DRS and also about 500 more innings out there.  The guy in second had 7 DRS and 250 more innings.  I think there IS an argument to suggest Mauer was the best defensive 1B in the AL this year.

Revised your statement. See above.

 

Also suggest you check out the comments in the Fangraphs article about Mark Teixeira's large decline in defense, for a vision of the future.

[Guest]

This. The Mauer hate has clouded posters judgment about who should play. He is a SUPERIOR first baseman which is substantial. He gets on base a lot for a team that doesnt. Nobody behind him can match his glove or obp which means Vargas can DH and Park can wait in Rochester.

I like Mauer. However, he's declined a lot physically, and the decline should be expected to start happening more rapidly. His playing time isn't based on wanting to play Park or Vargas, but is instead based primarily on what he can handle. More playing time would result in worse hitting.

 

The old gray Mauer just ain't what he used to be.

[Linus]

I like Mauer. However, he's declined a lot physically, and the decline should be expected to start happening more rapidly. His playing time isn't based on wanting to play Park or Vargas, but is instead based primarily on what he can handle. More playing time would result in worse hitting.

 

The old gray Mauer just ain't what he used to be.

Well defensively he is the best choice and the rest aren't close. I agree with the decline with the bat but he still has value especially with a manager who will sit him against lefties.

[jimmer]

 

Revised your statement. See above.

Also suggest you check out the comments in the Fangraphs article about Mark Teixeira's large decline in defense, for a vision of the future.

No, no, no.  He was being subbed a lot at 1B WAY before he got hurt towards the end of the year.  Played enough to be in 134 games and 576 PAs.  Yet inferior defenders played 1B more than 25% of the time he played in favor if lesser defenders who could have been DHing.

 

Besides, the question was about who the best defensive 1B was in the AL this year, not another discussion about how he's bringing the team down and how the flavor of the moment, Vargas, is so much better as if last season never happened.

 

Based on what I posted earlier, there is an argument to suggest he was the best defensive 1B in the AL based on DRS, at least.

[Guest]

No, no, no.  He was being subbed a lot at 1B WAY before he got hurt towards the end of the year.  Played enough to be in 134 games and 576 PAs.  Yet inferior defenders played 1B more than 25% of the time he played in favor if lesser defenders who could have been DHing.

 

Besides, the question was about who the best defensive 1B was in the AL this year, not another discussion about how he's bringing the team down and how the flavor of the moment, Vargas, is so much better as if last season never happened.

 

Based on what I posted earlier, there is an argument to suggest he was the best defensive 1B in the AL based on DRS, at least.

Yes, his D at first has gotten a lot better and he had a good year at 1B. His subbing early in the year, however, was an attempt to keep him fresh and healthy. He simply could not play as much as Davis or Moreland this year (both of whom were also benched or moved to other positions occasionally so other players could get playing time, but not because of their own health issues), which is why their overall stats are better, and he is likely to decline further next year.

 

Mauer's defense this year was good, but we can't magically add a bunch of innings that he couldn't have handled and say that he was better than everyone else, and we should not project him to play as many innings or be as good next season.

[EddieMatthews]

First, I'd like to see Sano drop 25 pounds and 25 strikeouts for 2017.  Baseball is unique in the sport world in that every player needs to play offense and defense, hit for power, get on base, advance runners, run bases, catch the ball, throw the ball, and play as part of a team.  Sano needs to work on his entire game.  Maybe a few of those pounds that are slowing him down are between his ears.

 

Second, this topic is about first base.  Sano needs to play solid third base or be relegated to the designated hitter role.  Mauer, as incumbent, needs to come to spring training in shape.  The StarTribune showed a picture of him training in the back room of his auto dealership.  He was doing squats with a 45 pound bar and a couple of 10 pound weights.  He needs a personal trainer and a dietician who can get him ready for 2017.  Most bar league players can run from first to home without pulling their quads.

 

Vargas should rotate with Mauer at first and DH.  Vargas needs to start hitting right hand pitching.  Mauer will hit better if there are solid hitters behind him and runners on base ahead of him.  Dozier, Sano, Vargas, Kepler batting third, fourth, fifth will keep the pitching honest as Morneau, Cuddyer, Willingham and others did.  Buxton in lead-off will force pitchers to throw better pitches to Mauer.

 

As for Park, he should platoon with Beresford in Rochester.  I don't see a future in the majors for Park.  He is the odd man out in the 1B / DH crowd.  If he learns to hit pitching he may be trade bait.

[Riverbrian]

I think Mauer does a tremendous job defensively at 1B. I think he's one of the best in the league however... he is being compared to players at a position where they put the guy with defensive liabilities.

 

Being the best defensive first basemen is like being the tallest midget.

 

I like Mauer... He ain't the same Mauer but he can help us win games and I don't care about his price tag... that price tag was what it cost at the time. It had to be paid. 

 

My sole issue with Mauer isn't on Mauer... It's on any manager who thinks that Mauer must play everyday. Mauer's overall game just isn't everyday worthy at this point. 

 

 

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

How much credence do we put on fielding %?

i don't, especially one tenth of a percent difference.

[Willihammer]

I suspect with Vargas we'll find the L-R split he has holds up over a larger sample. His swing looks so much more natural from the right side IMO.

[clone52]

The new front office shouldn't waste their time worry about first base.  There are options, and while not great, they are decent.

 

Spend their time worrying about the pitching staff.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The new front office shouldn't waste their time worry about first base.  There are options, and while not great, they are decent.

 

Spend their time worrying about the pitching staff.

 

Other than, you know, trying to figure out what to do with Vargas... They can't just ignore everything else. Coaches, players, rosters, scouts, it all needs to be looked at. 

[rghrbek]

 

Second, this topic is about first base.  Sano needs to play solid third base or be relegated to the designated hitter role.  Mauer, as incumbent, needs to come to spring training in shape.  The StarTribune showed a picture of him training in the back room of his auto dealership.  He was doing squats with a 45 pound bar and a couple of 10 pound weights.  He needs a personal trainer and a dietician who can get him ready for 2017.  Most bar league players can run from first to home without pulling their quads.

 

 

 

This.  I remember the same picture and article (the trainer was his old high school trainer right?) in the strib and thought to myself, how can an organization that has 23 million a year wrapped up in their employee (with his injury history), not have their own trainer, at a facility of their choice, and under their own rehab/work out plan?  Only the Twins.

 

I think Mauer will have to play a fair amount of games at first.  75 games.  I think Vargas should get 50 to 75, and Park should get some if he figures things out.  Depending on our hitting situations I may dH Mauer a lot less to keep him fresh too.  Maybe he is just a 100 games a year guy now?

[Linus]

I would never dh Mauer. When he needs to rest or is dinged sit him. No more of this half way stuff. I'm a proponent of him being the primary first baseman but I would also tell him at the beginning of the year that he is only playing when healthy. No more limping along.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

I think the best thing to so is platoon our corner bats the best that we can, and then adjust where needed with injuries, rest, hot streaks with; Sano, Mauer, Vargas, Park, and Plouffe. Someone might prove to be a full-time player, but otherwise stick to what past and recent data is telling us is the right thing to on that given day. The extra bats also serve as key bench bats. Sano can still play OF or 1B in a pinch, and make Plouffe or Mauer be serviceable for an inning in a corner spot if needed too. Maximize what we have with these guys.

 

Mauer sitting v. RHP is kind a simple way to give him scheduled and predictable rest, while raising some of his confidence and career stats to finish off.

 

 

v. RHP

 

1B-Mauer

3B-Sano/Plouffe

DH-Vargas/Park

 

v. LHP

 

1B-Park/Vargas/Sano

3B-Plouffe/Sano

DH-Sano/Vargas

 

 

 

[snepp]

Keeping Mauer away from as many lefties as possible is a good start. The over/under on his expected OPS vs lefties has to be somewhere in the low-to-mid 600's. Barely tolerable for a middle infielder, let alone a first baseman.

[DJSim22]

 

Unless he retires, or suddenly waives hus no trade for a chance to fill a role on a contender, (with the Twins getting little back and picking up most of the financial obligation probably) Mauer will be part of the equation.

But from what we've seen this year, it's becoming more and more clear that performs best when he doesn't play daily.

Vargas is young, has potential, and a very solid milb track record with constant upward movement. You HAVE to give him a shot. Not a week. Not a month. Buy a real **** to see what you have. He's OK defensively, reportedly works hard, switch hits, takes BB, and has solid to good power potential.

Park is an option, of course. But after such a disappointing and injury interrupted season, I think he's on the outside initially.

There are roster scenarios where I can see all 3 on the team sharing 1B/DH and the off day guy providing a bench bat. But I'd rather see Plouffe back, or someone similar, who can play more than one position.

Palka in 2018? Maybe the end of 2017? Maybe. But first, see what you have in Vargas.

 

If you are talking about 2018 and beyond, Kepler needs to be considered as well.

 

[Bark's Lounge]

With what we have, this is the line up I'd like to see next season.

 

C - Garver/Murphy

1B - Vargas

2B - Dozier

SS - Polanco

3B - Sano

RF - Kepler

CF - Buxton

LF - Rosario

DH - Park (Palko in the wings)

 

The offense had some good moments, but some bad moments as well, with a new hitting coach, these guys could reach their potential. I hope that happens!

[jimmer]

Serious question.  How many years has Mauer hit poorly against lefties?  Because just last year, he hit better against lefties than righties and for his career, his numbers against lefties is better than most lefties versus lefties.  I mean, while obviously better against righties, his career stat line isn't gross against lefties.

[Mr. Brooks]

Serious question. How many years has Mauer hit poorly against lefties? Because just last year, he hit better against lefties than righties and for his career, his numbers against lefties is better than most lefties versus lefties. I mean, while obviously better against righties, his career stat line isn't gross against lefties.

Mauer has a career OPS vs lefties of .739.

The last 3 years his overall OPS has been nearly exactly 100 pts below his career overall OPS.

To me, that world would put his expected OPS against lefties at .639.

[TheLeviathan]

I think it's fine to find ways to dig out value in Mauer and why you can still start him.

 

I just think the reasons to move on are far more abundant.  

 

 

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

I think it's fine to find ways to dig out value in Mauer and why you can still start him.

 

I just think the reasons to move on are far more abundant.  

...and platooning him is a happy medium of that, while also letting the dude have scheduled rest, and likely better number, and confidence.

[WiesbadenDAN]

Looking ahead is the path I would prefer.  I would really like to see Vargas at 1st and Plouffe back up 1st/3rd/DH.  I realize that would mean releasing Mauer which is not going to happen, but would be a very brave move with an eye to the future.  Build in as many interchangeable parts as possible...for instance:

 

2 Catchers (Garver/Centeno)

3 Mid Infielders(Dozier/Polanco/Escobar)

3 Corner Infielders(Plouffle/Vargas/Sano)

4 Outfielders(Buck/Herr Max/Rosario/Grossman)

 

 

13 pitchers(hopefully a lot of new names here)

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think the best thing to so is platoon our corner bats the best that we can, and then adjust where needed with injuries, rest, hot streaks with; Sano, Mauer, Vargas, Park, and Plouffe. Someone might prove to be a full-time player, but otherwise stick to what past and recent data is telling us is the right thing to on that given day. The extra bats also serve as key bench bats. Sano can still play OF or 1B in a pinch, and make Plouffe or Mauer be serviceable for an inning in a corner spot if needed too. Maximize what we have with these guys.

 

Mauer sitting v. RHP is kind a simple way to give him scheduled and predictable rest, while raising some of his confidence and career stats to finish off.

 

 

v. RHP

 

1B-Mauer

3B-Sano/Plouffe

DH-Vargas/Park

 

v. LHP

 

1B-Park/Vargas/Sano

3B-Plouffe/Sano

DH-Sano/Vargas

 

You have Mauer, Park, and Vargas all on the roster? That's a pretty thin bench...

[TheLeviathan]

 

...and platooning him is a happy medium of that, while also letting the dude have scheduled rest, and likely better number, and confidence.

 

I'm fine with that, but I'd honestly just prefer he's gone.  I just don't think that's an option unfortunately.

[clone52]

 

Other than, you know, trying to figure out what to do with Vargas... They can't just ignore everything else. Coaches, players, rosters, scouts, it all needs to be looked at. 

 

Oh, sure they need to figure it out, but I'll be sorely disappointed if they spend a lot of money to go out and get a free agent first basemen.  I think you can fill the 1B slot from within (Mauer/Vargas/Sano/Park).

 

I mean honestly, if our 1B got the offensive production that Dozier got and our 2B got the production that our 1B got, no one would be overly concerned about things.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Oh, sure they need to figure it out, but I'll be sorely disappointed if they spend a lot of money to go out and get a free agent first basemen.  I think you can fill the 1B slot from within (Mauer/Vargas/Sano/Park).

 

I mean honestly, if our 1B got the offensive production that Dozier got and our 2B got the production that our 1B got, no one would be overly concerned about things.

 

got it, thanks, have a great day!

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

You have Mauer, Park, and Vargas all on the roster? That's a pretty thin bench...

Yes, but with an imperfect players making up our organization, you will be left with an always imperfect roster. I personally believe that carrying and using those players in the way I mentioned, would be more valuable and less imperfect than if one were left off in place of a lesser player. One of them might play his way or injure his way out at some point.

 

Carry one less reliever, and shuttle them as you need, in order to keep guys fresh. Or use the DL when a need arises. We are all keen on the mysterious and vague DL stint when somehow a spot is needed, and we have not been afraid to use that. 

 

Also, it is not the worse thing in the world to throw a guy out of position for a few innings and in rare occasion, especially on a team not in the hunt. Make use of the best bats we have, but in the right situations.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yes, but with an imperfect players making up our organization, you will be left with an always imperfect roster. I personally believe that carrying and using those players in the way I mentioned, would be more valuable and less imperfect than if one were left off in place of a lesser player. One of them might play his way or injure his way out at some point.

 

Carry one less reliever, and shuttle them as you need, in order to keep guys fresh. Or use the DL when a need arises. We are all keen on the mysterious and vague DL stint when somehow a spot is needed, and we have not been afraid to use that. 

 

Also, it is not the worse thing in the world to throw a guy out of position for a few innings and in rare occasion, especially on a team not in the hunt. Make use of the best bats we have, but in the right situations.

 

Good argument. Not sure I agree, but I can see where you make sense.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

Good argument. Not sure I agree, but I can see where you make sense.

I don't even agree fully or get what I wrote completely....but, that would at least be in line with the decisions that have been made with the roster these past few years:) I kid.

[h2oface]

No, no, no. He was being subbed a lot at 1B WAY before he got hurt towards the end of the year. Played enough to be in 134 games and 576 PAs. Yet inferior defenders played 1B more than 25% of the time he played in favor if lesser defenders who could have been DHing.

 

Besides, the question was about who the best defensive 1B was in the AL this year, not another discussion about how he's bringing the team down and how the flavor of the moment, Vargas, is so much better as if last season never happened.

 

Based on what I posted earlier, there is an argument to suggest he was the best defensive 1B in the AL based on DRS, at least.

If Mauer hadn't been substituted for, his poor bilateral leg weakness may have resurfaced, and coupled with this year's bilegual quad quandary, he may have had to sit the mystery injuries another month or two sooner... maybe he would have been out since all-star break instead of just the last month. His bat probably would have suffered even more and sooner too. All speculation of course, but so are the other assumptions presented.