Acceptable 1st Basemen

[GMinTraining]

We have watched the likes of  Mauer; Park; and Vargas play first base this season and have expressed mix reviews on each.  Who do we want as our 2017 first baseman and what types of stats would bring you joy as a fan?

 

Consider this:

Chris Davis (Orioles)

21 2B

00 3B

38 HR

84 RBI

88 BB

.221 BA

.333 OBP

.794 OPS

(23 Million / 2016)

 

Albert Pujols (Angels)

19 2B

00 3B

31 HR

119 RBI

49 BB

.268 BA

.323 OBP

.780 OPS

(25 million / 2016)

 

Chris Carter (Brewers / free agent 2017)

27 2B

01 3B

41 HR

94 RBI

76 BB

.222 RBI

.322 OBP

.824 OPS

(2.5 million / 2016)

 

Our Twins DH / 1B Trio Combined

(Mauer / Park / Vargas)

42 2B

05 3B

33 HR

93 RBI

120 BB

Mauer OPS = .752 ($23 million)

Park OPS = .684 ($4 million)

Vargas = .883 ($500,000)

 

How would you fill your 1st base position for 2017 if you were the GM?

[theBOMisthebomb]

We have other priorities to fret over. Anyway, unless Mauer retires it will be more of the same. Interesting stats, a deeper dive would be nice though. What are these stats for when they were only at 1st and what are combined 1B stats for Twins guys (BA, OBP, OPS)?

[Seth Stohs]

So, the options are Chris Davis, Albert Pujols, Chris Carter or Status Quo?

 

 

 

 

[old nurse]

Fresh cherries are such a treat.  In honor of the nation's capitol's cherry tree for first basemen combinations I pick Ryan Zimmerman and Clinton Robinson.  In honor of Mount Rainier cherries, I pick Vogelbach Lee and Lind.  In adding to the cherries, there is a pile of aged ones in Philadelphia in Ryan Howard.  Cherry pick your players. Cherry pick the one number you want to use.  Besides  by woba, wrc+ Kennys Vargas is a better player that anyone else you listed. When I slip my rose colored glasses on I can say he will do it for over the course of a year next year and be better with consistent playing time. The Twins have the better player if you would only believe.

[Old Twins Cap]

Put Dozier at 1B.

 

Seriously.

 

 

[HitInAPinch]

 

So, the options are Chris Davis, Albert Pujols, Chris Carter or Status Quo?

and are any of them actually available?  Who is this Status Quo guy?  Must be in the MiLB.....

 

[HitInAPinch]

 

 

Put Dozier at 1B.

 

Seriously.

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Surely-You-Cant-Be-Serious-In-Airplane-Gif.gif

[HitInAPinch]

 

 

Fresh cherries are such a treat.  In honor of the nation's capitol's cherry tree for first basemen combinations I pick Ryan Zimmerman and Clinton Robinson.  In honor of Mount Rainier cherries, I pick Vogelbach Lee and Lind.  In adding to the cherries, there is a pile of aged ones in Philadelphia in Ryan Howard.  Cherry pick your players. Cherry pick the one number you want to use.  Besides  by woba, wrc+ Kennys Vargas is a better player that anyone else you listed. When I slip my rose colored glasses on I can say he will do it for over the course of a year next year and be better with consistent playing time. The Twins have the better player if you would only believe.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GgTLZ_BFQtE/UUeTOFPlSHI/AAAAAAAAHlA/yizMw0wyRYk/s1600/9099.gif

[bluechipper]

I like watching Chris Davis HRs on the highlights shows, but if I had to watch a full season of him as an Orioles fan, I think I'd get pretty frustrated with him. The worst part about these high strikeout guys is that you can't count on them with guys in scoring position, as evidenced by his .194 avg with RISP this year. 84 RBI on 38 HRs is a little disappointing.

 

My worry with Sano (future 1B?) is that his strikeouts aren't going to allow him to be a great RBI guy.

[h2oface]

So, the options are Chris Davis, Albert Pujols, Chris Carter or Status Quo?

No. There is also the amazing Beresford!

 

Give the guy a break. He wasn't writing a book, just pointing out a few comparables. Do you have some that you would like to contribute? They would be welcome.

[DocBauer]

Unless he retires, or suddenly waives hus no trade for a chance to fill a role on a contender, (with the Twins getting little back and picking up most of the financial obligation probably) Mauer will be part of the equation.

 

But from what we've seen this year, it's becoming more and more clear that performs best when he doesn't play daily.

 

Vargas is young, has potential, and a very solid milb track record with constant upward movement. You HAVE to give him a shot. Not a week. Not a month. Buy a real **** to see what you have. He's OK defensively, reportedly works hard, switch hits, takes BB, and has solid to good power potential.

 

Park is an option, of course. But after such a disappointing and injury interrupted season, I think he's on the outside initially.

 

There are roster scenarios where I can see all 3 on the team sharing 1B/DH and the off day guy providing a bench bat. But I'd rather see Plouffe back, or someone similar, who can play more than one position.

 

Palka in 2018? Maybe the end of 2017? Maybe. But first, see what you have in Vargas.

[GMinTraining]

I would go with Vargas as well.  I know most people want results right now and celebrate any big free agent signing if they think it brings Big results.  Be careful what you wish for.  Between Park and Mauer, we are spending over $27 Million for a (30+ year old) first base / DH position. We could probably have better production from the $500,000 youngster (Vargas).  I say this to say - If we are not signing a sure fire Young STAR - let's ride our young guys to a promising future.  Somebody just has to be willing to make the tough decisions and eat some contracts.

[Linus]

A combination Justin Morneau and Kennys Vargas playing first base and DH'ing for the Twins would be to my liking. I think Justin has started a career recovery. Problem is then where do you play Joe Mauer? With his leg problems he isn't really an option for the outfield. Mauer's not a great first basemen but you still need his bat in the line-up than anything else. Mauer is a competent #2 guy in the batting order now, not a number 3. He can't catch anymore so unless Joe Mauer retires we are pretty much stuck with him at first base.

Actually Joe has developed into an excellent first baseman. His defense is far superior to the other choices.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Actually Joe has developed into an excellent first baseman. His defense is far superior to the other choices.

"Far superior" ?

 

He's a first baseman. Good enough is good enough. How much of a difference does a .993 fielding percentage make over .992?

 

Also, Mauer didn't get enough innings to qualify. Tough to make too much out of advanced metrics on 500 innings to get a larger pool of applicants, but Chris Davis was better than Joe by UZR.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=fld&lg=al&qual=700&type=1&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=23,d

[Bark's Lounge]

 

I like watching Chris Davis HRs on the highlights shows, but if I had to watch a full season of him as an Orioles fan, I think I'd get pretty frustrated with him. The worst part about these high strikeout guys is that you can't count on them with guys in scoring position, as evidenced by his .194 avg with RISP this year. 84 RBI on 38 HRs is a little disappointing.

 

My worry with Sano (future 1B?) is that his strikeouts aren't going to allow him to be a great RBI guy.

Sano is only 23. The strike outs should go down. Certainly he will still strike out quite a bit, but if he gets that number down to 130-150 K's in 650 PA's - that is a workable number and should come with promising results.

[Mike Sixel]

 

"Far superior" ?

He's a first baseman. Good enough is good enough. How much of a difference does a .993 fielding percentage make over .992?

Also, Mauer didn't get enough innings to qualify. Tough to make too much out of advanced metrics on 500 innings to get a larger pool of applicants, but Chris Davis was better than Joe by UZR.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=fld&lg=al&qual=700&type=1&season=2016&month=0&season1=2016&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=23,d

 

He was third in the AL in the "gold gloves by the numbers" article....I'd call that good. YMMV, of course.

[Bark's Lounge]

Strictly sticking to in-house candidates for 1B next year, I'd like to see them run Vargas/Park out there.

 

Sano and Polanco should man 3B and SS next year exclusively. It could be very painful and a disaster, but we need to see if these guys can do it - plain and simple.

 

I have always been a big Mauer fan, but I gave him this season to prove to me he can still be a .300 hitter and an on base machine. It's not in the cards. I hope he retires. If not he should be a part time player and pick up the corner OF positions in the off season. He is a shell of his former self. I sort of view him as a 1986 Mickey Hatcher now.

[bluechipper]

 

Sano is only 23. The strike outs should go down. Certainly he will still strike out quite a bit, but if he gets that number down to 130-150 K's in 650 PA's - that is a workable number and should come with promising results.

Yeah I sure hope so. If he does get down to that range of strikeouts, he will put up monster numbers.

[jimmer]

 

Sano is only 23. The strike outs should go down. Certainly he will still strike out quite a bit, but if he gets that number down to 130-150 K's in 650 PA's - that is a workable number and should come with promising results.

I'm confused by the logic of the assumption he'll be able to drop it to 130-150 in full seasons just because he'll get older.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Yeah I sure hope so. If he does get down to that range of strikeouts, he will put up monster numbers.

Nothing should be assumed, but the fact that he is a guy that take walks and such is a promising sign and he has a long time until his prime years. He is still developing.

[jimmer]

 

He's a first baseman. Good enough is good enough. How much of a difference does a .993 fielding percentage make over .992?

 

How much credence do we put on fielding %? 

[Blake]

Vargas a heads-up baseball player from what little I've seen of him, along with being a decent defender and decent bat.

 

Overall, I think Vargas has more upside than Mauer. Mauer is a sunk cost and should be asked to "take a position within the organization" or some such.

 

Park is decent at first but I don't know about his bat.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

I'm confused by the logic of the assumption he'll be able to drop it to 130-150 in full seasons just because he'll get older.

Jimmer, it might not happen. But he's 23 and a super talent, at least offensively. I would certainly expect there to be drastic improvements with his contributions the next few years. The Power, the ability to take a BB. Those are good signs. I think he can make the adjustments.

 

Kris Bryant dropped his K total by about 40-50 this year and he is the probable NL MVP. There is no reason Sano cannot do the same in the K department within the next few years.

[jimmer]

 

Jimmer, it might not happen. But he's 23 and a super talent, at least offensively. I would certainly expect there to be drastic improvements with his contributions the next few years. The Power, the ability to take a BB. Those are good signs. I think he can make the adjustments.

 

Kris Bryant dropped his K total by about 40-50 this year and he is the probable NL MVP. There is no reason Sano cannot do the same in the K department within the next few years.

yes, but because some do, doesn't mean others will.  Bryant and Sano have completely different types of swings.  I'm not saying he WON'T improve his K%, but I wouldn't just figure that because he gets older it will get better.  Some players get worse and strikeout more as they get older.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

yes, but because some do, doesn't mean others will.  Bryant and Sano have completely different types of swings.  I'm not saying he WON'T improve his K%, but I wouldn't just figure that because he gets older it will get better.  Some players get worse and strikeout more as they get older.

I'm not sure what to tell you. I hope for the best and take the bet on past experiences and expect future progression from the kid.

 

I am not going to sit under a rain cloud all day and worry about it. I think Sano will be fine, if not, life goes on.

[jimmer]

 

I'm not sure what to tell you. I hope for the best and take the bet on past experiences and expect future progression from the kid.

 

I am not going to sit under a rain cloud all day and worry about it. I think Sano will be fine, if not, life goes on.

He can be a great offensive force even with 180 or so Ks.  Last year he was great and he struck out almost the same % as he did last year. (36% this year, 35.5% last year)

[Bark's Lounge]

 

He can be a great offensive force even with 180 or so Ks.  Last year he was great and he struck out almost the same % as he did last year. (36% this year, 35.5% last year)

No doubts. I think he can and will improve.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

We have watched the likes of  Mauer; Park; and Vargas play first base this season and have expressed mix reviews on each.  Who do we want as our 2017 first baseman and what types of stats would bring you joy as a fan?

 

Consider this:

Chris Davis (Orioles)

21 2B

00 3B

38 HR

84 RBI

88 BB

.221 BA

.333 OBP

.794 OPS

(23 Million / 2016)

 

Albert Pujols (Angels)

19 2B

00 3B

31 HR

119 RBI

49 BB

.268 BA

.323 OBP

.780 OPS

(25 million / 2016)

 

Chris Carter (Brewers / free agent 2017)

27 2B

01 3B

41 HR

94 RBI

76 BB

.222 RBI

.322 OBP

.824 OPS

(2.5 million / 2016)

 

Our Twins DH / 1B Trio Combined

(Mauer / Park / Vargas)

42 2B

05 3B

33 HR

93 RBI

120 BB

Mauer OPS = .752 ($23 million)

Park OPS = .684 ($4 million)

Vargas = .883 ($500,000)

 

How would you fill your 1st base position for 2017 if you were the GM?

Thanks. It is surprising to me how well The Twins first basemen performed as a trio. However, I don't think the stats are accurate - Park played mostly DH.
Question

[jimmer]

As far as Mauer goes, Fangraphs listed him #3 for the AL Gold Glove at 1B in their article about AL Gold Glove.  If he didn't keep getting pulled for players not as a good on D, he would have gotten more recognition.  

 

Mauer was 3rd in the AL in DRS with +6 with only 831 innings played.  The guy in front had +8 DRS and also about 500 more innings out there.  The guy in second had 7 DRS and 250 more innings.  I think there IS an argument to suggest Mauer was the best defensive 1B in the AL this year.

[Linus]

As far as Mauer goes, Fangraphs listed him #3 for the AL Gold Glove at 1B in their article about AL Gold Glove. If he didn't keep getting pulled for players not as a good on D, he would have gotten more recognition.

 

Mauer was 3rd in the AL in DRS with +6 with only 831 innings played. The guy in front had +8 DRS and also about 500 more innings out there. The guy in second had 7 DRS and 250 more innings. I think there IS an argument to suggest Mauer was the best defensive 1B in the AL this year.

This. The Mauer hate has clouded posters judgment about who should play. He is a SUPERIOR first baseman which is substantial. He gets on base a lot for a team that doesnt. Nobody behind him can match his glove or obp which means Vargas can DH and Park can wait in Rochester.