Molitor 2017

[Guest]

Per Berardino, the Twins have sent a letter to season ticket holders that sounds like Molitor is coming back. Reasons stated are his "determination, grit and intelligence." This is a disheartening message. These qualities, although they may be reasons why someone could be CONSIDERED for a job, are not reasons why someone should get a job. Look at it this way: would anyone without any of these qualities ever get considered? A lack of determination, or grit, or intelligence, would almost automatically disqualify someone. Therefore, having these qualities should be the minimum to be considered, but the hiring decision should be based on much more. For Pohlad to say that Molitor is coming back because he has demonstrated the minimum qualifications for the job in his two years of holding it shows that management still hasn't figured out how to run a winning team. Hopefully they are willing to hire someone who doesn't have to tell them how smart they are to get the job and they will be able to listen to that person.

[gunnarthor]

Apparently Molitor and Pohlad are friends.  I think this is really bad and might affect possible GM candidates.  Molitor should have been fired in May.

[Badsmerf]

He won't be back. Any gm is going to mandate they hire their own guy. I wouldn't get too worried about it.

[markos]

 

Apparently Molitor and Pohlad are friends.  I think this is really bad and might affect possible GM candidates.  Molitor should have been fired in May.

I don't think this impacts the GM candidate at all. Of all the front office changes in the past few years, I think Dipoto with the Mariners was the only one to immediately fire the manager. Everyone else (Boston, Toronto, San Diego, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, LA Dodgers, Atlanta) kept the current manager for at least the start of the next season. 

 

But it could definitely change things if the Pohlads demanded some say in ANY future manager changes. That would be a potential game-changer. But I don't think there is anything wrong with saying Molitor will start the 2017 season as the manager (regarding the GM search). 

[wsnydes]

The letter also mentions how much value Polhad puts on Molitor's baseball acumen.  That's fine and dandy, but he hasn't exhibited the ability to translate that to his players or in his decision making.  So I don't see the value in that.  After watching a game just two days ago that included two major screw ups on fundamental plays, that whole notion is an insult to my intelligence.  This is rather disheartening news, even if it is just for one more season.  With the youth coming up and already here, fundamental baseball is the one thing that this team should be well situated with, and that is far from the case.  

[wsnydes]

 

I don't think this impacts the GM candidate at all. Of all the front office changes in the past few years, I think Dipoto with the Mariners was the only one to immediately fire the manager. Everyone else (Boston, Toronto, San Diego, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, LA Dodgers, Atlanta) kept the current manager for at least the start of the next season. 

 

I agree with this completely.  I don't really think it's as big of a deal as many make it.  To me, not liking the fact that Molitor will be back is more of an isolated topic rather than having anything to do with the GM candidate.  

[tobi0040]

 

I don't think this impacts the GM candidate at all. Of all the front office changes in the past few years, I think Dipoto with the Mariners was the only one to immediately fire the manager. Everyone else (Boston, Toronto, San Diego, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, LA Dodgers, Atlanta) kept the current manager for at least the start of the next season. 

 

But it could definitely change things if the Pohlads demanded some say in ANY future manager changes. That would be a potential game-changer. But I don't think there is anything wrong with saying Molitor will start the 2017 season as the manager (regarding the GM search). 

 

If we are looking for the number two guy of an organization like the Cubs or Cardinals, I think those guys have their pick of jobs out there.  Any whiff of ownership meddling would be a red flag and could turn the away.

 

This is just completely unneccesary.  What does Jim Pohlad know about running a baseball organization?  Or a successful bussiness?  He should look at his track record here, get out of the way, and stand and clap from his suite.

[USAFChief]

I have to think any candidate for PBO would have to at least be mildly concerned by the owner telling him ahead of time "I'll pick the manager."

 

That's on top of several potential negatives already existing:  LOTS of losing over the past half decade, a reputation as "old school," a history of financial constraints, and a relatively small market (in flyover land to boot).

 

People at the head of the line for these types of jobs don't have to settle for all those conditions.  

 

 

[psomers]

I am a season ticket holder and I did receive the letter and the verbiage about Molitor is correct.  I can also confirm that I will be e-mailing the Twins(when they e-mail me soon requesting 2017 season tickets) that I will not be renewing if the order to keep Molitor still holds.  To hire a new POBO and GM and then to handcuff them is completely ludicrous.  I guess the more things change with the Pohlads, the more they stay the same.  If they want to be this stubborn, they can keep my 2017 season ticket $ as well. 

[Doomtints]

More weirdness from the Twins marketing department.  The next group may want to replace this group too.  

[wsnydes]

 

I am a season ticket holder and I did receive the letter and the verbiage about Molitor is correct.  I can also confirm that I will be e-mailing the Twins(when they e-mail me soon requesting 2017 season tickets) that I will not be renewing if the order to keep Molitor still holds.  To hire a new POBO and GM and then to handcuff them is completely ludicrous.  I guess the more things change with the Pohlads, the more they stay the same.  If they want to be this stubborn, they can keep my 2017 season ticket $ as well. 

As a fellow season ticket holder, this kind of crap is the reason why I haven't spent a dime at Target Field, or on anything Twins related since late April despite attending 20+ games in that span.  That season ticket holder survey that they said would take about 10 minutes took me an hour and 15 minutes to fill out.  I was pretty blunt because they need to understand that this acceptance of something less than mediocrity is something that people aren't going to spend their hard earned money on.

[Mike Sixel]

Until you cancel your tickets......that's the only message they'll really understand.

[wsnydes]

 

Until you cancel your tickets......that's the only message they'll really understand.

Yup, that's why I instituted a boycott on concessions.  The pocketbook is about all they seem to understand.  I've let them know exactly what I've been doing too.  If I didn't love baseball so much, I would have cancelled my tickets long ago.  This season is testing that love for the game, or at least my willingness to pay for wanting to watch the opponent more than the home team.

[mikelink45]

I am more interested in getting rid of all of Molitors coaches - especially pitching.  Changing them would be my priority.

 

[Winston Smith]

 

The letter also mentions how much value Polhad puts on Molitor's baseball acumen.  That's fine and dandy, but he hasn't exhibited the ability to translate that to his players or in his decision making.  So I don't see the value in that.  After watching a game just two days ago that included two major screw ups on fundamental plays, that whole notion is an insult to my intelligence.  This is rather disheartening news, even if it is just for one more season.  With the youth coming up and already here, fundamental baseball is the one thing that this team should be well situated with, and that is far from the case.  

Then the blame is on the minor league coaching staffs. If they don't know fundamentals when they get to the majors it's not the managers fault.

[wsnydes]

 

Then the blame is on the minor league coaching staffs. If they don't know fundamentals when they get to the majors it's not the managers fault.

Except those fundamentals don't improve.  That's on the big league manager.  Otherwise, I do agree.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Then the blame is on the minor league coaching staffs. If they don't know fundamentals when they get to the majors it's not the managers fault.

 

Learning continues in the majors. Otherwise, you'd not have coaches at all......Molitor has worked with Rosario, for example, for 2 seasons now, and he still throws to the wrong base too often for Molitor...

 

I am curious if you don't think players can improve with coaching in the majors.

[Vanimal46]

Pohlad has made it known time and time again that he lets baseball people make baseball decisions. And then he makes a baseball decision. Mind.Boggling.  

[markos]

 

I have to think any candidate for PBO would have to at least be mildly concerned by the owner telling him ahead of time "I'll pick the manager." 

But that isn't exactly the situation here. The manager was already picked back in 2014, and he is under contract until Nov 2017. And this isn't just personal loyalty; it is also the expense - it will cost $1M+ to fire Molitor after this season. Personally, I don't think it is crazy for the owner to decide that he doesn't want to pay the $1M+ for Molitor to not coach next season. And frankly, I'd rather see any new GM keep Molitor and use the savings (from not having to pay two managers) to invest in players (draft or international signings) or scouting, analytics, and player development expansions. So as long as the new PBO has free reign after 2017, then I don't think it is a big deal.

 

(Though I do concede that I think Molitor has been a poor manager this year for the development of many (all?) of the young players, and that there is a case that paying $1M+ for Molitor to go away might be money well spent...)

[Vanimal46]

 

But that isn't exactly the situation here. The manager was already picked back in 2014, and he is under contract until Nov 2017. And this isn't just personal loyalty; it is also the expense - it will cost $1M+ to fire Molitor after this season. Personally, I don't think it is crazy for the owner to decide that he doesn't want to pay the $1M+ for Molitor to not coach next season. And frankly, I'd rather see any new GM keep Molitor and use the savings (from not having to pay two managers) to invest in players (draft or international signings) or scouting, analytics, and player development expansions. So as long as the new PBO has free reign after 2017, then I don't think it is a big deal.

 

(Though I do concede that I think Molitor has been a poor manager this year for the development of many (all?) of the young players, and that there is a case that paying $1M+ for Molitor to go away might be money well spent...)

I would hope that the decision to be bullish on Molitor isn't because of $1 million. Think about how much money has been tossed aside for the Duensings, Stauffers, Jepsens of the world. That would be silly to keep Molitor for financial reasons. 

[tobi0040]

But that isn't exactly the situation here. The manager was already picked back in 2014, and he is under contract until Nov 2017. And this isn't just personal loyalty; it is also the expense - it will cost $1M+ to fire Molitor after this season. Personally, I don't think it is crazy for the owner to decide that he doesn't want to pay the $1M+ for Molitor to not coach next season. And frankly, I'd rather see any new GM keep Molitor and use the savings (from not having to pay two managers) to invest in players (draft or international signings) or scouting, analytics, and player development expansions. So as long as the new PBO has free reign after 2017, then I don't think it is a big deal.

 

(Though I do concede that I think Molitor has been a poor manager this year for the development of many (all?) of the young players, and that there is a case that paying $1M+ for Molitor to go away might be money well spent...)

So that plays into the widely held belief that the owner is cheap. Is it then reasonable for a potential GM to also conclude that the reason Nolasco pitched for 2.5 years was his contract?

 

Personanlly I would be surprised if we hire a top guy. They will have reservations about coming here and we likely won't pay them what they deserve. Even if we do land them, it is fair to be pessimistic the owners will make the neccesarily investments in analytics, development, etc to hire talented people and expand the departments.

[Guest]

The letter also mentions how much value Polhad puts on Molitor's baseball acumen.  That's fine and dandy, but he hasn't exhibited the ability to translate that to his players or in his decision making.  So I don't see the value in that.  After watching a game just two days ago that included two major screw ups on fundamental plays, that whole notion is an insult to my intelligence.  This is rather disheartening news, even if it is just for one more season.  With the youth coming up and already here, fundamental baseball is the one thing that this team should be well situated with, and that is far from the case.

 

Hopefully, every manager in rookie ball and college division 1 has "baseball acumen." That should not be a distinguishing factor for a major league manager.

[Guest]

I don't think this impacts the GM candidate at all. Of all the front office changes in the past few years, I think Dipoto with the Mariners was the only one to immediately fire the manager. Everyone else (Boston, Toronto, San Diego, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, LA Dodgers, Atlanta) kept the current manager for at least the start of the next season.

 

But it could definitely change things if the Pohlads demanded some say in ANY future manager changes. That would be a potential game-changer. But I don't think there is anything wrong with saying Molitor will start the 2017 season as the manager (regarding the GM search).

 

Sort of. If someone is considering the job, that person is assessing whether management is going to allow him or her to run the operations or if he or she will need to convince management of big and small decisions.

 

 

Candidates are also going to assess (1) what issues are going to need the owner's involvement, (2) how many issues will need the owner's involvement, and (3) how intelligent does the owner appear to be, because there are only so many times the person is going to want to spend cycles negotiating for what he or she thinks is right (and/or obvious). It's more than whether Molitor stays.

 

 

Every time Pohlad says stuff like this, the level of concern goes up about how easy the job is going to be and how easy it will be for a candidate to build a winner in the manner he or she thinks is right.

[nicksaviking]

 

But that isn't exactly the situation here. The manager was already picked back in 2014, and he is under contract until Nov 2017. And this isn't just personal loyalty; it is also the expense - it will cost $1M+ to fire Molitor after this season. Personally, I don't think it is crazy for the owner to decide that he doesn't want to pay the $1M+ for Molitor to not coach next season. And frankly, I'd rather see any new GM keep Molitor and use the savings (from not having to pay two managers) to invest in players (draft or international signings) or scouting, analytics, and player development expansions. So as long as the new PBO has free reign after 2017, then I don't think it is a big deal.

 

(Though I do concede that I think Molitor has been a poor manager this year for the development of many (all?) of the young players, and that there is a case that paying $1M+ for Molitor to go away might be money well spent...)

 

I can't agree with this. To me this sends one of two messages to the new POBO, 1 ) the owner meddles in baseball decisions or 2 ) the owner is too thrifty and won't provide me with the resources I need to build a team/front office that I envision.

 

Also, was the word "gritty" really used? If so, I would like to asses the Twins PR team an infraction for trolling.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Then the blame is on the minor league coaching staffs. If they don't know fundamentals when they get to the majors it's not the managers fault.

Molitor was a roving minor league instructor for almost a decade.

[wsnydes]

 

Molitor was a roving minor league instructor for almost a decade.

Not that I really want to defend Molitor, but a roving instructor is quite a bit different than their everyday coaches.  I'd imagine a roving instructor would work on other things more intricate (like technique) than fundamentals.  The coaching staffs should be the ones ingraining the fundamentals on the minor league players.  

[Pardon My Dinger]

My best guess is we're just seeing the old "I'll-back-you-up-in-public-to-save-face-but-you'll-'voluntarily'-walk-away-after-the-season-is-over" deal they offered to Terry. 

[jimmer]

 

My best guess is we're just seeing the old "I'll-back-you-up-in-public-to-save-face-but-you'll-'voluntarily'-walk-away-after-the-season-is-over" deal they offered to Terry. 

But then what, trying to make sure they sell as many season tickets as possible to the fans that love the HOF former Twin before he quits? :-)

 

Be kind of like a GM saying to the potential season ticket holder/season ticket holders that he'd do everything possible to greatly improve the starting rotation... :-)

 

teams don't mess with their fans like that...

[nicksaviking]

 

But then what, trying to make sure they sell as many season tickets as possible to the fans that love the HOF former Twin before he quits? :-)

 

Be kind of like a GM saying to the potential season ticket holder/season ticket holders that he'd do everything possible to greatly improve the starting rotation... :-)

 

teams don't mess with their fans like that...

 

Or perhaps the Twins front office is vastly over-estimating the average fan's attachment to Molitor.

 

Or is it possible that the abnormal fans (us) are greatly under-estimating the average fan's attachment.

 

Is it possible the casual fans want him to stay?

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

teams don't mess with their fans like that...

Ah, yes. I used to believe things like that too...but that seems like a very long time ago.