What happens when Gibson comes back?

[Comrade Bork]

I know it's been talked about a bit but it's going to be interesting to see what the Twins do when Gibson gets off the DL. I'd like to see Hughes to the bullpen or the DL but realistically I see Berries getting sent back down.

 

I wonder how TR will justify the move now that its clear we should be using this season to test out the new kids.

[gunnarthor]

I think the most likely scenario is Hughes to the bullpen.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I think the most likely scenario is Hughes to the bullpen.  

It's the most logical move. Hughes cannot survive in the rotation with a 91mph fastball.

 

Move him to the pen and cross your fingers that 91mph fastball turns into a 93mph fastball. Hughes can not only survive at 93mph, he can thrive.

[Thrylos]

The most logical scenario would be Hughes to the pen, but Ryan will not do it, because:

 

a. he has never put a high paid pitcher with a bunch of years remaining in his contract to the pen (threats do not count; cynical me believes that the Nolasco off-season posturing was just that.  Also Pelfrey last season does not count because a. he had a single season left and b. they knew of Santana's positive test.)

b. we are not only talking about one bad contract here, we are talking about the extension that should had never happened because it did not need to happen.

 

So it is either Hughes to the DL or Berrios to AAA, sadly.

[Pardon My Dinger]

If Berrios ever goes back down, imma act a fool up in here. 

[Linus]

It's going to be a while yet before we have to worry about it. He hasn't even thrown off a mound and would likely go on an extended rehab assignment

[Comrade Bork]

I hope Berrios makes TR's decision a difficult one after tonight!

[HitInAPinch]

 

I know it's been talked about a bit but it's going to be interesting to see what the Twins do when Gibson gets off the DL. I'd like to see Hughes to the bullpen or the DL but realistically I see Berries getting sent back down.

I wonder how TR will justify the move now that its clear we should be using this season to test out the new kids.

 

IMHO, still early for that.  If we were to apply this evenly over the entire roster, Arcia and Sano would be on that list of players to be pushed aside.  Their performances have declined appreciably.

[Halsey Hall]

They say they want Gibson to throw 3 games in Ft Myers first, and he has yet to throw off the mound. He's scheduled to throw this week, and then maybe sent to Ft Myers, so it'll be awhile.

 

Berrios has got to stay up here.

[alarp33]

 

IMHO, still early for that.  If we were to apply this evenly over the entire roster, Arcia and Sano would be on that list of players to be pushed aside.  Their performances have declined appreciably.

 

What does this even mean? If we were to test out the kids it would mean 23 year old Sano and 25 year old Arcia would be out of luck?

[gunnarthor]

Keep in mind, they moved Hughes to the pen at the end of last year.  Unless he starts pitching well, he'll be moved.  But, as others have noted, we don't have to worry about this for a few more weeks yet.

[alarp33]

 

Keep in mind, they moved Hughes to the pen at the end of last year.  Unless he starts pitching well, he'll be moved.  But, as others have noted, we don't have to worry about this for a few more weeks yet.

 

He was coming back from injury - little different situation.  I agree that's what should happen, but I'm far from convinced that's what will happen.  

 

But yes, I would say a minimum of 2 starts for each starter before a decision needs to be made, Nolasco could pitch himself out of the rotation still as well.  

[nicksaviking]

 

It's the most logical move. Hughes cannot survive in the rotation with a 91mph fastball.

 

Move him to the pen and cross your fingers that 91mph fastball turns into a 93mph fastball. Hughes can not only survive at 93mph, he can thrive.

 

Holy crap, it's up to 91 MPH now?

[HitInAPinch]

 

What does this even mean? If we were to test out the kids it would mean 23 year old Sano and 25 year old Arcia would be out of luck?

 

I think I was pretty clear.  If you're going to judge a roster by a fairly short sample size, then Sano and Arcia would be part of that discussion.  And that's why I started with:

 

"IMHO, still early for that."

[Rigby]

Hans devices for the infielders.

[alarp33]

 

I think I was pretty clear.  If you're going to judge a roster by a fairly short sample size, then Sano and Arcia would be part of that discussion.  And that's why I started with:

 

"IMHO, still early for that."

 

The part you bolded and replied to was suggesting we should test out the kids this season, you said you disagreed because that would mean Sano and Arcia wouldn't deserve to be in... still confused.  

[nicksaviking]

 

 

The most logical scenario would be Hughes to the pen, but Ryan will not do it, because:

 

a. he has never put a high paid pitcher with a bunch of years remaining in his contract to the pen (threats do not count; cynical me believes that the Nolasco off-season posturing was just that.  Also Pelfrey last season does not count because a. he had a single season left and b. they knew of Santana's positive test.)

 

Making blanket statements about Terry Ryan is how one ends up being wrong saying the Twins will never draft a HS pitcher with an early pick, the Twins will never give a free agent a deal longer than 2 years and the Twins will never fire a manager.

 

This is an assumption, not fact, it should be prefaced as such. "Ryan probably will not do it, because"

[birddog]

It has to be Hughes and Nolasco to the pen and pray some club will take them off our hands before the deadline. I think Hughes forgot it's an even-year season and he's supposed to be doing well. Duffey's name should now be written into the rotation with ink or magic marker, and if Berrios continues to provide good innings--even if the outcome is not always the best--he also needs to stay up with the big club. And we have to see what we have in Polanco for more than just a few scattered innings.

[mazeville]

What should happen:

 

Twins make room for Gibson by putting Hughes in the bullpen or by trading Nolasco or Ervin Santana. 

 

What will happen:

 

Twins will make room for Gibson by sending down Berrios.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I think I was pretty clear. If you're going to judge a roster by a fairly short sample size, then Sano and Arcia would be part of that discussion. And that's why I started with:

 

"IMHO, still early for that."

nope, not clear at all. I was confused too. Cuz I didn't get from your statement that the Twins could yet pull themselves into contention, nor did I see any alternatives to Sano and Arcia that would give the Twins a better chance to succeed now.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

What should happen:

 

Twins make room for Gibson by putting Hughes in the bullpen or by trading Nolasco or Ervin Santana.

 

What will happen:

 

Twins will make room for Gibson by sending down Berrios.

do you really think it's possible or wise to trade ESan effectively 3/4 of a season into his deal? There's still almost three seasons left so they'd have to pickup a chunk of it to move him, which I dont see as likely. Also, why would any player sign with the Twins as a FA if they hand out contracts, no matter how wise, to Santana, Nolasco, Hughes in back to back seasons, and they offload all of them as quick as they can?

[gunnarthor]

Yeah, and Santana's been an ok pitcher for us - in 23 starts he 3.87 era (106 ERA+), 137ip, about 2WAR.  Not great but far from a bomb.  He's not the problem.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I've got to think Berrios will be around for a while.  You don't typically add a guy on to the 40 ahead of schedule if you aren't planning on giving them an extended look in the majors.  I wouldn't be surprised if Hughes to the pen hasn't been discussed.  It's the right answer too I think b/c he's a better option there than a lot of what we have there now.

[alarp33]

 

do you really think it's possible or wise to trade ESan effectively 3/4 of a season into his deal? There's still almost three seasons left so they'd have to pickup a chunk of it to move him, which I dont see as likely. Also, why would any player sign with the Twins as a FA if they hand out contracts, no matter how wise, to Santana, Nolasco, Hughes in back to back seasons, and they offload all of them as quick as they can?

 

I agree with you it wouldn't be wise to trade Santana, because he is one of their best 5 pitchers, and I'm not sure he's going to bring a whole lot back in a trade. I disagree with the notion that trading him would discourage FA's from signing here, total myth

[DaveW]

The obvious solution is Hughes to the DL or the bullpen, the 2nd obvious solution is Nolasco to the bullpen.

 

The minute Gibson comes back and shows some effectiveness I would be looking to deal him ASAP. He isn't our worst pitcher by any means, but because of his contract he actually is moveable.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It's going to be a while yet before we have to worry about it. He hasn't even thrown off a mound and would likely go on an extended rehab assignment

According to this report, Gibson has thrown off a mound, and is set to throw his third bullpen session today:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/twins-kyle-gibson-set-for-another-bullpen-session-monday/

 

But you are correct on the latter point, that he will need a rehab assignment, although I am not sure it would necessarily be "extended".

[Otto von Ballpark]

Frankly, while Gibson's return is still a few weeks off, you can make a strong case for May or Meyer to take Hughes' spot right now.

[HitInAPinch]

 

The part you bolded and replied to was suggesting we should test out the kids this season, you said you disagreed because that would mean Sano and Arcia wouldn't deserve to be in... still confused.  

 

nope, not clear at all. I was confused too. Cuz I didn't get from your statement that the Twins could yet pull themselves into contention, nor did I see any alternatives to Sano and Arcia that would give the Twins a better chance to succeed now.

 

Starting from the original post, last sentence:  "I wonder how TR will justify the move now that its clear we should be using this season to test out the new kids."

 

So, would we be applying this to everyone on the roster?  Or are we excluding Arcia and Sano and their current production?  Arcia has a .227 BA, Sano .229.  OPS for both, average and below.

 

84 and 152 PA's respectively.  SSS or in other words:  "IMHO, still early for that."  That's what I was trying to point out.

 

Are you getting this now?  If we're judging everyone the same, at this point in the season, Arcia and Sano would be considered.  And if they ARE included, there are in fact replacements available:  Kepler and Buxton.

 

Sorry if this confuses you. 

 

[mazeville]

 

do you really think it's possible or wise to trade ESan effectively 3/4 of a season into his deal? There's still almost three seasons left so they'd have to pickup a chunk of it to move him, which I dont see as likely. Also, why would any player sign with the Twins as a FA if they hand out contracts, no matter how wise, to Santana, Nolasco, Hughes in back to back seasons, and they offload all of them as quick as they can?

 

Ervin Santana is technically 1.25 years into his deal. His deal started last year, and he got suspended for half the year. So there's no issue there.

 

Santana is an effective starter this year, with a 3.38 ERA and nearly a strikeout an inning. He has only two more seasons on his contract after this year that pays him about $14 million a year, so while he might not fetch a massive prospect haul, I have to believe he'd fetch something. And the Twins at this point need to go young.

 

Frankly, I'd probably rather get rid of Nolasco or Hughes. Hughes has no trade value. But Nolasco has decent secondary numbers and if you put him on a team with decent defense -- or maybe to the NL -- he might get the team something. Also, Nolasco has only one year on his deal after this.

 

As for whether it's wise for the Twins to get rid of free agents -- I don't think that matters that much at all. Do you honestly think that Santana and Nolasco want to keep pitching for a losing team? They'll get their money. And they might get an opportunity to pitch for a contender -- while also building some value for their next contract. 

 

You can't say that Ricky Nolasco, who has a 4.87 ERA but a 4.00 FIP, wouldn't relish the chance of going back to the National League and playing for a team that has good outfield defense.

[alarp33]

 

Starting from the original post, last sentence:  "I wonder how TR will justify the move now that its clear we should be using this season to test out the new kids."

 

So, would we be applying this to everyone on the roster?  Or are we excluding Arcia and Sano and their current production?  Arcia has a .227 BA, Sano .229.  OPS for both, average and below.

 

84 and 152 PA's respectively.  SSS or in other words:  "IMHO, still early for that."  That's what I was trying to point out.

 

Are you getting this now?  If we're judging everyone the same, at this point in the season, Arcia and Sano would be considered.  And if they ARE included, there are in fact replacements available:  Kepler and Buxton.

 

Sorry if this confuses you. 

 

 

The original poster said its clear this season should be about playing the kids... I think it was obvious to all that he meant guys with a future here, 2017 and beyond contributors, etc.  It goes without saying Sano is part of that group (Arcia as well to a less degree), so no, I still don't understand how you got from "Play the kids" to mean "Sit Sano and Arcia".  I mean he never even mentioned performance once, he said play the kids... how did you get to the point of checking Sano's batting avg based off of what he said?

 

But no need to continue the back and forth, have a good day.