Berardino: Twins place Milone and Fien on waviers

[Mr. Brooks]

The more I think about it, the more this looks like the first of several seller-position moves that will be happening between now and July 31. I would not be surprised if Hughes, Nolasco and E. Santana are wearing different unis by then. That gives us a rotation of, in alphabetical order, Berrios, Duffey, Gibson, May, Meyer.

I don't think we could get anything for Hughes unless we eat most of his contrace, which experience says they don't consider doing.

Everything in his body of work points to 2014 being a complete fluke.

He looks like at best a 5th starter on a bad to average team.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Maybe you were among those who definitively knew that Fien and Milone wouldn't be assets this year, but I was not among them.  It's always difficult for any organization to let go of players they've invested a lot of money in, especially when they have had a track record (if inconsistent) of success in the past.

Good on the Twins for setting them free and eating the money.  

 

The apt metaphor is praising the parent for teaching the kid to call the tow-truck, even if it was the parent who lent the kid the keys.  Although I wasn't sure Fien and Milone would fail, I also knew there was good chance they would, it's easy to say they should have been replaced with known-quantities at similar costs, but we enter the realm of speculation and hindsight. 

 

It was pretty much universal that Fien was a terrible idea.  And what has happened with Milone is what happens when you continually default to low ceiling players over higher ones.  

 

If that's the metaphor you want to go with - why the hell has it taken twenty years to figure out how to call a tow truck? It isn't reliant on hindsight, these exact problems were predicted frequently this offseason.  

 

You're deliberately trying to go against the crowd of opinion here and pat the Twins on the back for what looks to be a decision to bring Darin Mastroianni in to save the season.  Sorry, but that deserves nothing but derision, not congratulation.

[spinowner]

Just wanted to chime in that Berardino is the only one reporting this. These transactions have not been posted on mlb.com and LEN III only states that the Pioneer Press report is based on two unnamed sources. So it's still possible that this all may only be a rumor.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Are you willing to give Mastro one of the 40 man spots? For a player that was already released by 2 teams?
I understand your point about a temporary move, but not for that spot.

 

this falls under "not my first choice", but what really is going on I suspect after reading this is that Rosario is likely being sent down.  I was thinking they would call up a reliever. Guess they are more worried about CF.  They aren't going to call up Buxton (rightfully so) and need a warm body to take his place for the time being.  Your starting CF will be Danny Santana.

 

On the flip side, Maestro gets DFAd again this offseason. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

For those commenting that Milone could have been traded for a C level prospect; Would it really have made you happy that a C level prospect was here in March over Milone? IMO it wouldn't have mattered either way...

No, it wouldn't have mattered much but the Twins could have walked away with a prospect and freed up money to buy a better reliever (not that they should be up against their payroll ceiling anyway but that's another argument).

 

I *love* pitcher redundancy... But the Twins had so much more than redundancy. They literally had *eight* guys they could have used in the rotation on Opening Day and that's not including Alex Meyer. Redundancy is 6-7 guys... Eight guys is overkill and one of them could have been moved. Hughes was coming off a down year. Gibson was critical to the team. Nolasco had no value. Santana shouldn't be traded.

 

That leaves Milone.

[Mill1634]

Its all Mauer's fault!!!!! 

[wsnydes]

 

That's a two edged sword, if both of them were being productive and executing there roles, people would think the Twins did good with their investment, which I don't think was an unrealistic proposition, it just went the opposite way. These 2 players track records do not indicate awfulness, the Twins pretty much payed them for what they were worth expectation wise. They were average.

The issue I've had with bringing Milone back was that it was blocking younger talent.  It's not as though he was even a #3 starter, so why block younger pitchers in the organization?  That gets back to my rant of being stuck between trying to compete with mediocre veterans and trying to get the younger players experience.  The move just made no sense to me.

[wsnydes]

 

I am going to blow a gasket if Mastro wears a Twins uniform this season.

WTF? How does that do anything to improve the present, or the future? That would be the GM throwing his hands in the air and admitting he has no plan, had no plan, and doesn't expect to have a plan. He simply needs 25 men in uniform, and Mastro had a couple singles a couple years ago.

As far as I'm concerned, he's already admitted to that.  Or at least proven it.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If true, good to see them aggressive about cuts. But that is only half the equation. If they add some combination of Mastro, Centeno, and Kintzler, this is almost certainly a net negative move.

[tobi0040]

 

Interesting. I didn't thing they'd give up on Milone so fast, but saying goodbye to Fien is a step in the right direction.

 

That's $6.775M down the drain, or 6.4% of the Twins' payroll. TR should have devoted that money to a better reliever instead of paying these two...

 

Steve Cishek would have been a good reliever (2 and 10).  I said that before he started the year with a .64 ERA and a k per inning.

 

TR always has 10% of  his payroll devoted to fillers on a one year deal.  I wonder if he will ever learn that doing that every year is the same as a multi year contract for players that aren't good

[tobi0040]

 

If true, good to see them aggressive about cuts. But that is only half the equation. If they add some combination of Mastro, Centeno, and Kintzler, this is almost certainly a net negative move.

 

They call that change for change sake

[laloesch]

 

Tommy Millone will now go on to proceed to tear up the NL-

in the months of June and July

 

He's always bad in April....

 

I don't really get Non-Tendering Millone

 

But i'm sure He got "Mad" at Neil Allen or Paul Molitor for having to move to the "bullpen for a while"

 

SOo if thats the case, i'm sure its something close to that, Good Riddance Tommy Millone. !

 

 

I hear this statement a lot from Twins fans about our starting pitchers.  "He's a slow starter and he'll go on a tear with a new team if only we gave him a chance."  

 

I am tired of this excuse.  We need to move away from pitchers like this.  What we NEED are no nonsense starters that will fight to win games in April and early May instead of trotting out there and losing their first 5 or 6 games with a lackluster attitude.  Gibson is another one of these perennial offenders and i think he's a decent pitcher.

[laloesch]

 

I thought claimed off waivers means the claiming team takes on the contract?

 

That is correct they take on the contract.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm guessing there's a bit more to that than just mentality.  I do agree that we need pitchers that consistently do well, but even the best guys have bad months.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

That is correct they take on the contract.

 

Yeah, the Twins are giving away Milone to someone if another team wants him.  I'm guessing that means there were no trade offers on the table. 

[HitInAPinch]

From the LEN3

 

“We’re not playing too well,” Ryan said. “Consequently, we are going to have to start making some difficult decisions for our players, whether it is their near future or distant. It is not going good enough for us to wait. We are going to have to make some decisions.”

 

In a uncharacteristic move, TR is making moves before the All Star break.  This team was NEVER a playoff contender.  Not last year, not this year.  Time for a change, and TR has already started.

 

1.  The most important:  sending Buxton down.  Not even close to being a MLB hitter

2.  Bringing up guys like Tonkin, Pressly and O'Rourke to if they've got the stuff.

3.  Making room for Sano AND Arcia on the same roster.

4.  Letting loose of Milone and Fien to clear non-producers spots

 

Who I think needs the most work?  Sano and Arcia.  Issue:  Professionalism.

 

Sano:  It is what it is.  Twins needed to put him in the lineup someplace and RF isn't the greatest of ideas.  But from what I saw, his play at 3rd isn't all that great, either.  I still have visions of that belly flop a couple weeks ago.  But that not my biggest concern.  This is:

 

http://www.twincities.com/2016/05/04/twins-miguel-sano-umpires-are-crazy-this-year/

 

Criticizing umpiring publicly is an extraordinary bad thing to do.  I'm hoping Molitor had a chat with him.

 

Arcia:  kudo's for coming to camp in great shape.  What took you so long to figure it out?  My bigger concern is his grandstanding at the plate.  On balls he puts in play, he stands at the plate, admiring what he did.  I'm hoping Bruno had a chat with him.

 

What I'm getting at here is this:  Beyond Sano and Arcia, there are other players that seem to act like they are entitled to being in the MLB.  Rosario, as much as I liked what I saw last year, is one of them.  Send his butt down.  And, this ain't all on TR.

 

WHEW, this got a lot longer than I anticipated.  Sorry, had to vent a bit   :shoot:

[nicksaviking]

I have no issue at all with Sano and Arcia, they bring an energy and enthusiasm that has been lacking for years for this organization. No thanks on a team full of boyscouts.

[chopper0080]

More moves that increase the perception of a organization lacking in both self awareness and a singular focus.

 

Let's Hicks for Murphy just because we have Buxton who has not demonstrated an ability to produce in the pros.

 

Now we are demoting Murphy, have demoted Buxton, and are looking for OF depth.

 

Lets move a promising May from starting to the bullpen in favor of Milone.

 

Milone is now outrighted.

 

Let's keep 29 year old Plouffe at 3B and move 22 Sano to the OF.

 

Which player do you believe will be on the roster longer?

 

Let's give contract extensions to older players coming off career years (Suzuki, Hughes, Perkins).

 

Shocking that they have never replicated the production that got them the contract.

 

 

It has become a pattern.

[Han Joelo]

I have to disagree with the idea these moves are net negative.  Almost anyone can provide more value than Murphy.  A soccer net behind the plate would be better defensively by far, even if it can't throw out base runners.  And a soccer net would likely have blundered into more hits than Murphy has.

 

Sorry to pile on, but I had medium hopes and low expectations for Murphy, and even those haven't been met.

 

 

[COtwin]

I hope this doesn't mean Graham stays.  It's like they want us to see that their year long decision to keep him on the roster was right and we will all witness it damn it.  

 

Murphy needs to play everyday, either up here or down in Rochester.  

 

Hughes better recover fast, his leash should be short.

[laloesch]

 

I hope this doesn't mean Graham stays.  It's like they want us to see that their year long decision to keep him on the roster was right and we will all witness it damn it.  

 

Murphy needs to play everyday, either up here or down in Rochester.  

 

Hughes better recover fast, his leash should be short.

 

 

Agreed.  If he continues like this demote him to the pen in favor of May or Duffey.  Callup Chargois and dump Nolasco.  That would be a major step in the right direction.  I'd also shop Gibson around for a young major league ready catcher.  Although apparently there adding Juan Centeno to the 40 man in anticipation of being called up and Murphy sent down.

 

Santana

Berrios

Gibson

May

Duffey / Meyer?

[nicksaviking]

I've been extremely critical of the organization, but I just wanted to throw this possibility out there:

 

We've been critical of the Twins being thrifty and we've been critical of the Twins terrible roster decisions. However, since Twins Daily was pretty unanimous in the opinion that Casey Fien shouldn't have been tendered a contract, and Tommy Milone's support here was luke-warm at best, we should probably assume that the front office also at least considered the possibility that giving these two money might not work out great.

 

It's not out of the realm of possibilities that Fien and Milone were given these contracts with the idea from the on-set that their salary would cause them to clear waivers when it inevitably came to that. If so, that would mean the team was willing to way overpay for veteran depth they could stash in AAA.

 

I don't think that was the motivation, I think they were just poor decisions, but it would have been a shrewd and pricey gamble if that was the intention.

[alarp33]

 

 

 

I don't think that was the motivation, I think they were just poor decisions, but it would have been a shrewd and pricey gamble if that was the intention.

 

I mean, seriously? There's lots of different ways to be "shrewd" or to "gamble"... giving 2 pitchers $7 million so you can cut them in a month and send them to AAA would not qualify for either.  

[tobi0040]

 

I've been extremely critical of the organization, but I just wanted to throw this possibility out there:

 

We've been critical of the Twins being thrifty and we've been critical of the Twins terrible roster decisions. However, since Twins Daily was pretty unanimous in the opinion that Casey Fien shouldn't have been tendered a contract, and Tommy Milone's support here was luke-warm at best, we should probably assume that the front office also at least considered the possibility that giving these two money might not work out great.

 

It's not out of the realm of possibilities that Fien and Milone were given these contracts with the idea from the on-set that their salary would cause them to clear waivers when it inevitably came to that. If so, that would mean the team was willing to way overpay for veteran depth they could stash in AAA.

 

I don't think that was the motivation, I think they were just poor decisions, but it would have been a shrewd and pricey gamble if that was the intention.

 

Paying terrible players too much money, so as to keep them on your team is an interesting strategy.

[laloesch]

 

I've been extremely critical of the organization, but I just wanted to throw this possibility out there:

 

We've been critical of the Twins being thrifty and we've been critical of the Twins terrible roster decisions. However, since Twins Daily was pretty unanimous in the opinion that Casey Fien shouldn't have been tendered a contract, and Tommy Milone's support here was luke-warm at best, we should probably assume that the front office also at least considered the possibility that giving these two money might not work out great.

 

It's not out of the realm of possibilities that Fien and Milone were given these contracts with the idea from the on-set that their salary would cause them to clear waivers when it inevitably came to that. If so, that would mean the team was willing to way overpay for veteran depth they could stash in AAA.

 

I don't think that was the motivation, I think they were just poor decisions, but it would have been a shrewd and pricey gamble if that was the intention.

 

Someone will claim Milone.   There's teams like the Brewers that are absolutely desperate right now for starters.  He''ll get claimed for sure.  I also think Nolasco gets moved shortly too, the sooner the better.

[chopper0080]

 

From the LEN3

 

“We’re not playing too well,” Ryan said. “Consequently, we are going to have to start making some difficult decisions for our players, whether it is their near future or distant. It is not going good enough for us to wait. We are going to have to make some decisions.”

 

In a uncharacteristic move, TR is making moves before the All Star break.  This team was NEVER a playoff contender.  Not last year, not this year.  Time for a change, and TR has already started.

 

1.  The most important:  sending Buxton down.  Not even close to being a MLB hitter

2.  Bringing up guys like Tonkin, Pressly and O'Rourke to if they've got the stuff.

3.  Making room for Sano AND Arcia on the same roster.

4.  Letting loose of Milone and Fien to clear non-producers spots

 

Who I think needs the most work?  Sano and Arcia.  Issue:  Professionalism.

 

Sano:  It is what it is.  Twins needed to put him in the lineup someplace and RF isn't the greatest of ideas.  But from what I saw, his play at 3rd isn't all that great, either.  I still have visions of that belly flop a couple weeks ago.  But that not my biggest concern.  This is:

 

http://www.twincities.com/2016/05/04/twins-miguel-sano-umpires-are-crazy-this-year/

 

Criticizing umpiring publicly is an extraordinary bad thing to do.  I'm hoping Molitor had a chat with him.

 

Arcia:  kudo's for coming to camp in great shape.  What took you so long to figure it out?  My bigger concern is his grandstanding at the plate.  On balls he puts in play, he stands at the plate, admiring what he did.  I'm hoping Bruno had a chat with him.

 

What I'm getting at here is this:  Beyond Sano and Arcia, there are other players that seem to act like they are entitled to being in the MLB.  Rosario, as much as I liked what I saw last year, is one of them.  Send his butt down.  And, this ain't all on TR.

 

WHEW, this got a lot longer than I anticipated.  Sorry, had to vent a bit   :shoot:

 

That is what the leaders on the team are supposed to do.  The problem is that when you lack veteran leadership, and have young talent, your young talent can dictate what type of behavior is appropriate and inappropriate.  It is a roster construction issue.

 

[HitInAPinch]

 

That is what the leaders on the team are supposed to do.  The problem is that when you lack veteran leadership, and have young talent, your young talent can dictate what type of behavior is appropriate and inappropriate.  It is a roster construction issue.

And that's exactly why the brought back Torii Hunter last year.  Who are those veterans now?  Dozier?  Plouffe?  They just don't seem like the leader type.

[zenser]

It will be interesting to if if this takes place or when it takes place.  With the new Richards from LAA needs Tommy John, maybe they take a flier on Tommy Milone.  I could see a handful of teams giving him a shot.  Fein on the other hand, his MLB days are probably over.  I just hope Mastro isn't called up.  Been there, done that.

[TheLeviathan]

So our struggles are now the fault of the personalities of Sano and Arcia?

 

Good gravy.

[gmarais66]

 

So our struggles are now the fault of the personalities of Sano and Arcia?

 

Good gravy.

The gravy is not good -- can't you see this is the root of the problem?