A Losing Culture

[chopper0080]

I remember a day when the Twins did it their way.  In a time in baseball where home runs were king, the Twins knew that in order to compete, they were going to have to do things a different way.  They developed a plan where they would keep games close, and they would execute fundamentals late in games to gain a victory.  It was contrarian, it didn't always work, but it was the plan, and the Twins were going to stick to the plan.  This consistent voice lent confidence to players in those high pressure situations.  Players knew what they were going to be asked to do, and it was going to be something that they had practiced since they entered the Twins farm system.  It was their culture.  Keep it close, and execute practiced fundamentals in high pressure situations.  They had a plan and they worked the plan.  Zero uncertainty.

 

Fast forward to today.  The Twins are now 0-9.  It seems shocking, but is it really shocking?  The problem with a rebuild is that focuses on losing, losing erodes confidence, and confidence is king in baseball.  Like no other sport, in the daily grind of professional baseball, confidence matters.  Confidence in your plan.  Confidence in your preparation.  Confidence in the face of failure.  I tell my son that baseball is a sport that you can do everything correctly and still fail.  You have to have the confidence in your process despite an unfavorable result.  This is where the Twins have developed a culture of losing.  Now that the expectations have changed, the confidence in the approach and plan over the past four years has waned.  Now the Twins are trying to do things differently, and it shows in their uncertainty in their execution, and it comes from the top down.

 

For Miguel Sano, the plan was to play 3B.  This is the position he has worked to improve at over his entire career with the Twins.  In 2015, when the Twins called him up to see what they had in him, the Twins protected their asset by planting him in the DH spot with spot starts at 3rd so he could adjust to the difference that is Major League pitching.  After a successful first stint, Sano now headed into the off season with a plan to continue to work at #B, and learn to prep for the adjustments teams would make against him come the following season.  Sano had confidence, because he knew what was expected.  However, instead of continuing to put their young future in a position to be successful, the Twins switched things up.  They were now expected to contend, and Plouffe was a good player who could help the team.  But, to compound that the Twins spent money on a DH, and a player would have to adjust to the major league game as well.  So, instead of protecting their future, the Twins moved him into a position he had never played, and still expected him to carry their offense.  Instead of feeding their top prospect consistency and sticking to a plan years in the making, the Twins served Sano uncertainty and the unknown.  Hard to be successful doing something you have never done against the toughest competition in the world in that field.

 

It isn't just this however.  The Twins took contact hitting catcher Joe Mauer, and due to health reasons moved him to 1B, and then they told him to be a power hitter.  They took Danny Santana after a productive year in the outfield, moved him to SS, and then watched him fail.  Byron Buxton has struggled at every level he has played at, including his first stint in the majors, and now they ask him to help carry their offense.  Trevor May, successful as a SP, moved him to the bullpen.  Brian Dozier, struggles with consistency, yet put at the top of the lineup.  A culture of losing isn't that guys are unhappy or inept, it is a culture that has no clear vision, no clear plan, and so players have little chance for success.  People are asked or trying to do things that they aren't prepared to do.  People are put in positions to fail rather than succeed.  

 

Molitor talks about searching for answers, and trying new things.  That is inherently the problem.  There is no plan.  When young players are called up, the Twins have no answers for them nor plan for them to fall into.  Instead they are looked towards to solve problems when they are just trying to figure things out.  This leads them to try to do too much rather than just doing their job.  It is tough to be confident in your ability to drive in a run when you aren't sure if you are going to need to hit behind the runner, put one over the fence, nor having any recent history of either working according to plan.  This is now The Twins Way.

[OldTimeTwinkie]

Excellent article. As a long time coach he hits the nail right on the head.

[glunn]

I "liked" the post because it is thought provoking and insightful. That said, my sense is that the Twins are not without plans.  Maybe the plans are bad plans, and maybe the plans sometimes seem stupid to some of us, including me, but there are logical arguments in favor of almost every move. And the Twins management knows a lot more about the players than we do.

 

For example, moving Sano to the outfield seems like a bad move.  But maybe the Twins concluded, based on close examination,  that Sano's defense at 3B would be poor and that Sano was athletic enough to play RF -- Sano did come up originally as a SS, and despite his size he seems fast and relatively agile. And from what we know, it appears that Plouffe would have yielded very little in a trade.  

 

Please keep in mind that I am not defending the plan. In fact, I think that, overall, it may turn out to be a bad plan, and if things don't work out then TR should be held accountable. What I am saying is that it does not seem fair to me to say that there was no plan.

 

I am also hoping that the plan may yet succeed.

[jokin]

 

I "liked" the post because it is thought provoking and insightful. That said, my sense is that the Twins are not without plans.  Maybe the plans are bad plans, and maybe the plans sometimes seem stupid to some of us, including me, but there are logical arguments in favor of almost every move. And the Twins management knows a lot more about the players than we do.

 

For example, moving Sano to the outfield seems like a bad move.  But maybe the Twins concluded, based on close examination,  that Sano's defense at 3B would be poor and that Sano was athletic enough to play RF -- Sano did come up originally as a SS, and despite his size he seems fast and relatively agile. And from what we know, it appears that Plouffe would have yielded very little in a trade.  

 

Please keep in mind that I am not defending the plan. In fact, I think that, overall, it may turn out to be a bad plan, and if things don't work out then TR should be held accountable. What I am saying is that it does not seem fair to me to say that there was no plan.

 

I am also hoping that the plan may yet succeed.

 

I think the Twins could have gotten a Murphy-level catcher, plus a medium grade bullpen arm in trade for Plouffe- not very much, but they'd be better off for having done so in the long run.

[jsteve96]

i liked this article until you said "Buxton has struggled at every level he's played at" then I couldn't focus on reading the rest because Buxton DOMINATED A and high A... then in 10 AAA games hit .400... the only level he struggled at for a period of time was in AA for a while. also, he's not being told to carry the team? he's the 9 hitter. the 9 hitter is the last one who you'd expect to carry a team... agree on the position changes for Sano and Santana to some degree though. It hurt Mauer as well. Sano should DH we shot ourselves in the foot signing Park.

[glunn]

 

I think the Twins could have gotten a Murphy-level catcher, plus a medium grade bullpen arm in trade for Plouffe- not very much, but they'd be better off for having done so in the long run.

 

I have read a lot of posts on TD about what the Twins could have gotten for Plouffe and my sense is that most people agree that Plouffe would not have yielded much in return. And we will never know what kinds of trade offers may have been exchanged that involved Plouffe. For all we know, TR called every potential trader, or maybe he did not call even one.

[jokin]

 

I have read a lot of posts on TD about what the Twins could have gotten for Plouffe and my sense is that most people agree that Plouffe would not have yielded much in return. And we will never know what kinds of trade offers may have been exchanged that involved Plouffe. For all we know, TR called every potential trader, or maybe he did not call even one.

 

A back-up catcher and ordinary RP arm isn't much, but that would have been sufficient in trade... in order to re-deploy Plouffe's salary dollars... and simply to just "move on".

[jokin]

 

i liked this article until you said "Buxton has struggled at every level he's played at" then I couldn't focus on reading the rest because Buxton DOMINATED A and high A... then in 10 AAA games hit .400... the only level he struggled at for a period of time was in AA for a while. also, he's not being told to carry the team? he's the 9 hitter. the 9 hitter is the last one who you'd expect to carry a team... agree on the position changes for Sano and Santana to some degree though. It hurt Mauer as well. Sano should DH we shot ourselves in the foot signing Park.

 

I think the OP meant that Buxton struggled initially at each level.

[theBOMisthebomb]

The plan is the current youth movement which has turned into this 0-9 disaster. If we bail now and start plugging in veterans that are slightly better today we are again mortgaging the future. It was just a few years ago when we were begging for Buxton and Sano to be here so let's be patient and see how it plays out. Keep playing the young guys and call up some young pitchers. It is just so bad right because almost all the guys are struggling at the same time.

[lightfoot789]

Putting talent together doesn't always create a winning atmosphere.  Putting winners together creates winning.  Chemistry is everything.  We assume that being professional and doing your job will cure things in the end.  Professionalism is extremely important, however, Trust is equally important.

 

I question who these guys truly trust.  Who is their go to guy in various situations.  Has that been identified among themselves, or through the media.  Media forced Dozier into being the leader in Hunter's absence, and I'm not sure the young guys look at him the same way.  They recognize the talent, but I'm not sure they recognize the leadership in the same way.  Media tried to force leadership on Mauer and see how that worked for team and Mauer (criticized).

 

The Twins need to find their NEW identity and let it develop on it's own.  Youth is my opinion.

 

 

[The Wise One]

There are many a faulty statements in this thread

 

1. Twins wanted Mauer to become a power hitter

2. Santana was a productive outfielder

3. The premise as to why Sano was Dh

4. May as a quality starter

5. That somehow a whole off season was not enough time to prepare oneself to play outfield.

 

That there is that  many flaws in the rationale behind the premise is thought provoking

 

[Platoon]

The plan is the current youth movement which has turned into this 0-9 disaster. If we bail now and start plugging in veterans that are slightly better today we are again mortgaging the future. It was just a few years ago when we were begging for Buxton and Sano to be here so let's be patient and see how it plays out. Keep playing the young guys and call up some young pitchers. It is just so bad right because almost all the guys are struggling at the same time.

I agree, but the Murphy signing and the various reports he is in Rochester for only a short time, is yet another indication of "no plan".

[KGB]

I'm going with the Torii Hunter affect, teams alway drop down after Torii leaves:

 

                                Winning % last yr with team                    Winning % first yr after leaving

Angels                                       .549                                                               .481

Detroit                                       .533                                                               .430

Minnesota                                  .512                                                              ????

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm going with the Torii Hunter affect, teams alway drop down after Torii leaves:

 

                                Winning % last yr with team                    Winning % first yr after leaving

Angels                                       .549                                                               .481

Detroit                                       .533                                                               .430

Minnesota                                  .512                                                              ????

 

that's some bad logic, but I will say, he may have leadership qualities that do effect teams. 

[savvyspy]

 

I "liked" the post because it is thought provoking and insightful. That said, my sense is that the Twins are not without plans.  Maybe the plans are bad plans, and maybe the plans sometimes seem stupid to some of us, including me, but there are logical arguments in favor of almost every move. And the Twins management knows a lot more about the players than we do.

 

For example, moving Sano to the outfield seems like a bad move.  But maybe the Twins concluded, based on close examination,  that Sano's defense at 3B would be poor and that Sano was athletic enough to play RF -- Sano did come up originally as a SS, and despite his size he seems fast and relatively agile. And from what we know, it appears that Plouffe would have yielded very little in a trade.  

 

Please keep in mind that I am not defending the plan. In fact, I think that, overall, it may turn out to be a bad plan, and if things don't work out then TR should be held accountable. What I am saying is that it does not seem fair to me to say that there was no plan.

 

I am also hoping that the plan may yet succeed.

You lost me at the Twins thought Sano was "athletic enough". There are exactly zero people EVER that have played outfield effectively at his weight LAST YEAR. He is 10-15lbs heavier (which you cannot blame the team for) this year but they certainly saw that the day he showed up for camp. I don't know where this fallacy originated from that Sano was "athletic enough" to play outfield but it doesn't represent an actual plan of any sort. Sano is no more suited to play outfield that Brian Robison is to play outfield. Moving people to positions that they have never played before at a size no one has ever effectively played that position in the history of the game isn't a plan. That is exactly what this post is illustrating.

 

The Twins seem to think they can make things up as they go and the result are clear. This team hasn't just shown these weaknesses this season. They have won 43% of their games since Ryan returned to the role. That is not acceptable.

 

Just go down the list: Scouting, poor drafting, developing young players, not using statistical analysis, not platooning players, roster construction, on field strategy, player regression. There isn't one area of running a professional baseball team that ANYONE in the league looks at the Twins as a leader. Everything the Twins do is either done years after the top teams started doing it or is so questionable that no other teams do it. And the results speak for themselves.

 

In any organization there are best practices. There are no laws saying you can't do things differently but you better see results. The Twins shun best practice at every turn to do it the Twins Way. Unfortunately for everyone the Twins Way is an abject failure by any measure.

 

So basically what you are left with is a team that is somehow figured out how to consistently have the worst plan in the league or has no direction. The evidence would definitely point to the latter. That is flat out irresponsible. This is a team that had no trouble threatening to leave the market and fleeced the taxpayers of the state for a public stadium and the can't even be bothered to take responsibility for the self inflicted mess they've created.

 

You want proof they have no plan???

 

This team's front office watched the first 9 games of the season and decided what needed to be done was signing David Murphy to a minor league deal. DAVID MURPHY. A guy worse than the outfielders you just cut from camp 2 weeks ago. The Twins Way.

 

[twinsnorth49]

 

I have read a lot of posts on TD about what the Twins could have gotten for Plouffe and my sense is that most people agree that Plouffe would not have yielded much in return. And we will never know what kinds of trade offers may have been exchanged that involved Plouffe. For all we know, TR called every potential trader, or maybe he did not call even one.

You're right Glunn, we can't know what kind of offers TR might have heard for Plouffe but I think it's safe to say that whatever they might have been they likely represented the high water mark for him. I don't think Jokin is far off in his estimation for what he might have returned and with a player like Sano waiting in the wings it's something TR should have acted on.

 

Instead, he decides to keep Plouffe, not upgrade the bullpen and put Sano in RF. That is placing a way higher value on Plouffe than anyone really should imo.

[HitInAPinch]

 

I think the Twins could have gotten a Murphy-level catcher, plus a medium grade bullpen arm in trade for Plouffe- not very much, but they'd be better off for having done so in the long run.

From whom?  That's the question

[jokin]

 

From whom?  That's the question

 

There's a mid-to-late-20s catcher with Murphy's profile playing at the major league level or AAA who is looking over his shoulder at his replacement or his equivalent on virtually every team in the league. The Yankees have 2 or 3 guys that were gunning for Murphy's job.

 

It's a similar situation for bullpen pitchers- in terms of supply and demand, anyway. How many RP arms are there who: A) will soon go to arbitration or; become too expensive on their existing contract; every single year? Many, if not most teams are calling up multiple younger, live arms more quickly and conducting real-time "tryouts" for RP positions while paying minimum salaries for the first 3 years of service. For many teams, it's a very cost-effective methodology.

 

In retrospect, I'm thinking the Boston Red Sox right about now would have loved to have traded from their surplus of slightly-above-replacement level catchers and arms for Plouffe instead of now being stuck with Panda's big contract.

[Mike Sixel]

The purpose of trading Plouffe is to put Sano there........not to get anything in return. Also, to free up money to spend on the bullpen (or not).

 

Now, if you don't think Sano can play 3B....why didn't he take fly balls last year? Why did he never play the OF in the minors? Did they come to that conclusion over the off season? 

[KGB]

 

that's some bad logic, but I will say, he may have leadership qualities that do effect teams. 

Bad logic

 

I'll take that as a compliment considering the active forums are:

 

A Losing Culture

One Step Backward

Sorry - Buxton a Flop

Twins Whine Line

Panic Time

[HitInAPinch]

 

There's a mid-to-late-20s catcher with Murphy's profile playing at the major league level or AAA who is looking over his shoulder at his replacement or his equivalent on virtually every team in the league. The Yankees have 2 or 3 guys that were gunning for Murphy's job.

 

It's a similar situation for bullpen pitchers- in terms of supply and demand, anyway. How many RP arms are there who: A) will soon go to arbitration or; become too expensive on their existing contract; every single year? Many, if not most teams are calling up multiple younger, live arms more quickly and conducting real-time "tryouts" for RP positions while paying minimum salaries for the first 3 years of service. For many teams, it's a very cost-effective methodology.

 

In retrospect, I'm thinking the Boston Red Sox right about now would have have loved to have traded from their surplus of slightly-above-replacement level catchers and arms for Plouffe instead of now being stuck with Panda's big contract.

Ok, I can buy the idea that the Red Sox, now, would probably prefer Plouffe over Sandoval.  Especially with this coming out:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/redsox/2016/04/15/pablo-sandoval-former-trainer-babysitter/83072388/ 

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

Well, just because something happens after something, does not mean the predecessor was a cause.......it MIGHT mean that, but probably not.

 

I hope you took that post like it was intended.......the conclusion can't be reached from that evidence, but it could be true. we don't know.....

[old nurse]

 

There's a mid-to-late-20s catcher with Murphy's profile playing at the major league level or AAA who is looking over his shoulder at his replacement or his equivalent on virtually every team in the league. The Yankees have 2 or 3 guys that were gunning for Murphy's job.

 

It's a similar situation for bullpen pitchers- in terms of supply and demand, anyway. How many RP arms are there who: A) will soon go to arbitration or; become too expensive on their existing contract; every single year? Many, if not most teams are calling up multiple younger, live arms more quickly and conducting real-time "tryouts" for RP positions while paying minimum salaries for the first 3 years of service. For many teams, it's a very cost-effective methodology.

 

In retrospect, I'm thinking the Boston Red Sox right about now would have have loved to have traded from their surplus of slightly-above-replacement level catchers and arms for Plouffe instead of now being stuck with Panda's big contract.

Travis Shaw, a 3b who was playing some outfield last year with an .810 OPS would say otherwise

[old nurse]

 

Ok, I can buy the idea that the Red Sox, now, would probably prefer Plouffe over Sandoval.  Especially with this coming out:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/redsox/2016/04/15/pablo-sandoval-former-trainer-babysitter/83072388/ 

The Red Sox had Shaw, a minor league 3b, playing outfield last year in the majors and hitting well.

[chopper0080]

 

I "liked" the post because it is thought provoking and insightful. That said, my sense is that the Twins are not without plans.  Maybe the plans are bad plans, and maybe the plans sometimes seem stupid to some of us, including me, but there are logical arguments in favor of almost every move. And the Twins management knows a lot more about the players than we do.

 

For example, moving Sano to the outfield seems like a bad move.  But maybe the Twins concluded, based on close examination,  that Sano's defense at 3B would be poor and that Sano was athletic enough to play RF -- Sano did come up originally as a SS, and despite his size he seems fast and relatively agile. And from what we know, it appears that Plouffe would have yielded very little in a trade.  

 

Please keep in mind that I am not defending the plan. In fact, I think that, overall, it may turn out to be a bad plan, and if things don't work out then TR should be held accountable. What I am saying is that it does not seem fair to me to say that there was no plan.

 

I am also hoping that the plan may yet succeed.

So, first off regarding the plan.  My issue is that we have players looking uncertain in situations, a manager who is discussing "new things" and "figuring things out", and a front office signing vet AAAA players 9 games into the season.  If there is a plan, and there very well could be, it is not a plan that is understood over all areas of the organization.

 

Secondly, I really don't have an issue with the Sano move other than the timing.  There is a way to allow Sano to move into an OF position that allows him to maintain his confidence.  There was no reason the Twins could not have DH'd him early in the season until both parties were comfortable with his play in the field.  That would have alleviated pressure off of him to both produce in the #4 spot in the lineup and be a average player in the outfield.  Instead they dumped him out there with zero game experience, and are now seeing it affect his hitting.

 

Lastly on Plouffe, I loved that they didn't trade him.  He is a quality player on a roster that needs quality players, and as you said, probably would not have netted any sort of significant piece back.

Thank you for your thoughts on my post.  I appreciate the feedback.

[chopper0080]

 

i liked this article until you said "Buxton has struggled at every level he's played at" then I couldn't focus on reading the rest because Buxton DOMINATED A and high A... then in 10 AAA games hit .400... the only level he struggled at for a period of time was in AA for a while. also, he's not being told to carry the team? he's the 9 hitter. the 9 hitter is the last one who you'd expect to carry a team... agree on the position changes for Sano and Santana to some degree though. It hurt Mauer as well. Sano should DH we shot ourselves in the foot signing Park.

Struggled initially was my intent.  Sorry it came across differently.  My point was that Buxton, like most players, has struggled initially after almost every promotion he has had.  To expect him to hit the ground running this year was unrealistic, and the Twins should have known better.  The key with players like this is to let them work it out on the biggest stage.  Demoting him will only stunt his growth further.

 

You state he is not being asked to carry the team, and I question how you can say that.  Yes, he isn't being asked to hit in the 3 spot, but who is this team marketing?  Who have they said they are counting on to be the future of the franchise?  The Twins have marketed Sano and Buxton as the saviors of the franchise.  They are what is going to take us from a bad team to a good team.  How is that setting these kids up for success?  I would challenge you argue that there are more than 2 other players whose names are more recognizable than Sano and Buxton to the average fan.  Mauer and Dozier.  You could probably argue Perkins, but that is pretty much it.

[mbents]

 

I'm going with the Torii Hunter affect, teams alway drop down after Torii leaves:

 

                                Winning % last yr with team                    Winning % first yr after leaving

Angels                                       .549                                                               .481

Detroit                                       .533                                                               .430

Minnesota                                  .512                                                              ????

 

You forgot this one:

2007 Twins winning % (last year with the team): .488

2008 Twins winning %: .543

[HitInAPinch]

 

 

The purpose of trading Plouffe is to put Sano there........not to get anything in return. Also, to free up money to spend on the bullpen (or not).

 

Now, if you don't think Sano can play 3B....why didn't he take fly balls last year? Why did he never play the OF in the minors? Did they come to that conclusion over the off season? 

 

A trade of a more than serviceable [ 2nd on team in HR's, 1st in RBI's ] for nothing?  Just to move him out of the way?  On the other end of the trade, I'm pretty sure the other team would request money to pay for some of Plouffe's salary.  If you're trading him for that little, he can't be worth that salary.

 

Sano was supposed to get some OF training during the winter leagues.  Not sure how much happened or why/who ended it.

 

Sano didn't play OF in the minors because he came in as a shortstop and simply outgrew the position AND the Twins were simply trying to maintain his value as a power-hitting infielder by moving him to 3rd.  Who wouldn't?

 

On the other side,  Sano has the ability to out hit his defensive liabilities.  Probably by a lot.  I probably would have left him at DH, at least for now.  Just let him hit, worry more about position next year.  Here's hoping Roc Nation get's in his ear.

 

[Mike Sixel]

If you thought he might play OF in the majors, you might want him to do so in the minors. If you didn't think that.......why is he?

[KGB]

 

You forgot this one:

2007 Twins winning % (last year with the team): .488

2008 Twins winning %: .543

Thanks - I've learned to pick and choose stats as they fit my position