Twins Inactive. Should Ryan be Making Moves?

[DaveW]

Coming into the Winter meetings, the Twins needed a few things, but one thing was an absolute must:

 

Upgrade to the bullpen.

 

Now that a few days have gone by, there is no less than about 15 of the top (and even the next tier) of RP that are now off the market. At what point do we just sort of all accept the fact that Ryan isn't the man to run a franchise in 2015? Is there any doubt they will simply now sign a C+ type free agent RP and call it a day? Hoping that Fien, Jepsen and Perkins can all stay healthy and effective for the 7th/8th/9th innings?

 

Color me unimpressed, but sadly not surprised. Same song, different year.

[jimmer]

 

I have nothing against him, I actually used to be a big fan. It just appears that another FA period is going to come and go with the Twins failing to do anything real to improve the team in any meaningful way in an area where they desperately need help.

 

If Ryan isn't to blame for this, who is?

Why bother responding?  No reason fans shouldn't be able to question/criticize the leadership of this team without having to respond to such comments.

[PseudoSABR]

If TR didn't act as early as he did, we'd be reading this thread some weeks earlier, though titled: "At what point can we call thiiiis offseason another failure for Ryan?"

[drjim]

 

If TR didn't act as early as he did, we'd be reading this thread some weeks earlier, though titled: "At what point can we call thiiiis offseason another failure for Ryan?

 

Right. TR was uncharacteristically aggressive, filled most holes, and now we are going crazy over a LH reliever and perhaps a 4th OF. Makes sense.

 

Despite what people might think, ONE free agent LH relief pitcher has been signed so far.

 

And it is absolutely wise to wait and see what OFs might drop.

 

So I would wait until a few more come off the board personally.

[USAFChief]

Right. TR was uncharacteristically aggressive, filled most holes, and now we are going crazy over a LH reliever and perhaps a 4th OF. Makes sense.

 

Despite what people might think, ONE free agent LH relief pitcher has been signed so far.

 

And it is absolutely wise to wait and see what OFs might drop.

 

So I would wait until a few more come off the board personally.

He filled most holes?

 

He got a backup C while opening a hole in the OF, and took a flyer on a fairly cheap potential DH.

 

The rest of the team hasn't been touched.

[DaveW]

If TR didn't act as early as he did, we'd be reading this thread some weeks earlier, though titled: "At what point can we call thiiiis offseason another failure for Ryan?

I like parks potential, but anothe DH type is the last thing the twins really needed. Murphy for hicks created one more hole, and that's assuming Murphy is anything more than a part time catcher with Suzuki around.

[Thrylos]

 

Right. TR was uncharacteristically aggressive, filled most holes,

 

Not sure about his golf game, but the Twins have as many (if not more, because of the CF situation)  holes as they had in October...

[drjim]

I don't think rolling with Buxton on day one is a hole. I'm probably too optimistic but I like going with talent.

 

He could be more creative in upgrades, but I see a representative player in every spot going into the season, though admittedly with uncertainty in the OF, which I expect addressed with a veteran signee.

[drjim]

 

He filled most holes?

He got a backup C while opening a hole in the OF, and took a flyer on a fairly cheap potential DH.

The rest of the team hasn't been touched.

 

It was a 83 win team on the upswing, I'm not convinced he should have touched too much. Clearing space for younger talent strikes me as a reasonable course of action.

[DaveW]

It was a 83 win team on the upswing, I'm not convinced he should have touched too much. Clearing space for younger talent strikes me as a reasonable course of action.

upswing yes, but they were very lucky to get 83 wins to begin with, in reality they were closer to a 75 win team once luck is taken out. Which means you need to find 15 wins to make a sure thing playoff team IMO

[jimmer]

It was a team that was extremely lucky to win the amount of games it won.  I was thrilled to see it, but the roster still has major flaws/uncertainties.  And so far, what has been addressed is backup catcher (and we still need a quality starting catcher) but while doing so we hurt the OF defense.  We signed an inexpensive DH who has never played in the majors, but destroyed inferior talent, making our biggest power hitting guy have to learn a new position.

 

So, I mean, seriously.

[glunn]

Moderator note -- these threads labeling Ryan as a failure tend to result in trolling and squabbling.  The moderators will be watching this thread closely and infractions will be issued if we see violations of our posting policy.

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/8228-twins-daily-comment-policy-latest-revision-september-2013/

[dgwills]

It's so hard to say because we really don't know whats going on in the meetings.I'd like to see Plouffe and Nolasco moved, but I doubt it's easy to do. Brett Lawrie to the White Sox fell through because the A's weren't happy with the offer. The Reds say they've been underwhelmed by the offers for Frazier. There might not be much of a market. You're not moving Nolasco without picking up a bad contract, so that really limits your options.

I did like the Hicks trade even though it was initiated by the Yankees and the Park deal looks good. Ryan could definitely be more aggressive though. I think we ended up with mediocre pitching because Ryan settled for players other teams weren't really pursuing. Overall I'd say the Twins front office is average. 

[Linus]

I would guess a more reasonable time to make this judgment would be March 1st.

[jimmer]

 

Coming into the Winter meetings, the Twins needed a few things, but one thing was an absolute must:

 

Upgrade to the bullpen.

 

Now that a few days have gone by, there is no less than about 15 of the top (and even the next tier) of RP that are now off the market. At what point do we just sort of all accept the fact that Ryan isn't the man to run a franchise in 2015? Is there any doubt they will simply now sign a C+ type free agent RP and call it a day? Hoping that Fien, Jepsen and Perkins can all stay healthy and effective for the 7th/8th/9th innings?

 

Color me unimpressed, but sadly not surprised. Same song, different year.

For me is was around August 2007, a few months before when Ryan himself said he was no longer the right guy to run a franchise in this new age and stepped down.

[DaveW]

For me is was around August 2007, a few months before when Ryan himself said he was no longer the right guy to run a franchise in this new age and stepped down.

touché

[Seth Stohs]

From my Winter Meetings preview last week:

 

 

There will be moves made by teams during the Winter Meetings, but if the Twins come out of the meetings having not signed or traded for anybody, it doesn’t mean they didn’t accomplish anything. They will likely have a lot of meetings with GMs from other teams, looking for trade partners, laying the groundwork for deals that could happen later. The Twins will have meetings with agents as well. Agents will talk to a lot of teams about their players. Those conversations will be brought back to the players who could decide where they want to play next week, the following week or even into January.

 

They don't have a ton of needs. There are still lefty relievers available. There are still outfielders available. The Winter Meetings are fun and some big things happen... but coming out of it without any moves isn't earth-shattering. Still two months before spring training. 

[DocBauer]

IMHO, up to this point, Ryan has done pretty much what he needed to do, and what I thought he should do. Am I 100% thrilled RIGHT NOW with the results? No. I'm not because I'm uncertain about the unproven Park but very optimistic. Murphy was a high draft pick and a well regarded prospect overall. In relatively SSS he has shown some hitting prowess. I'm willing to at least see him play before I decide he's only a backup catcher. And the guy traded, Hicks, may turn out. But despite a better 2015, and passing the eye test stronger, he remains an enigmatic talent with a good month and a little better numbers otherwise than previous.

 

So...generally happy right now.

 

We need an OF. There hasn't been a run on them exactly, there is still time.

 

But effective, hard throwing, SO inducing LH set up men are not common. Acquiring one lifts the entire bullpen up another level even if you do nothing else. It won't cost a fortune or more than 3 years to do so. What is the hold up/excuse for something that seems so obvious?

 

And Nolasco? I don't know. You don't want to sell low? Who is he honestly going to replace at this point in order to sell high? You'd replace Hughes or Santana or Gibson or May or Duffey or Berrios with him? I think not. Get what you can and move on.

[diehardtwinsfan]

honestly, lefty relievers don't bother me too much with Rogers and O'Rourke on the 40man.  I'd look long about removing 2 of the 7 starters that we have (knowing we have a couple more in the minors) and dealing Plouffe.  I'd like a back end bullpen type in one move, and maybe a decent OF that can be a 4th OF when Buxton is ready, but beyond that, I'm pretty happy with prospects.

[Rosterman]

Spring training. The Twins still need to increase, or see value (Plouffe...teams know the Twins MIGHT need to get rid of him). 

 

The Twins also have to really evaluate their needs. Do they go with established and dole out a contract, or keep moving on prospects.

 

Good to read that they are passing on Duensing and Boyer, at least on the 40-man level. If the guys can't find a job, they can still egt a chance and who knows then.

 

Ask yourself this: who on the Twins roster does another team truly want? Why would the Twins move, say, Perkins or Dozier, for example. What prospects are other teams actually watching? Probably those we would not move for even a Fernandez.

 

Ryan will sign at least one free agent for the 40-man and make a roster move. I imagine there will be a few minor league free/ invite to spring training additions. But until you figure out what to do with Vargas and Arcia, for example, there isn't a lot of roster movement (which again calls out "why bother with Nunex and Fien!"

 

 

[DaveW]

Lack of Lefty relievers dont worry me.

 

A lack of GOOD relievers who can strike out people once in a while worries me. The only two people I feel good about in the pen right now in any semi high leverage situation is Perkins and Jepsen, and Perkins is coming off of some arm injuries. May is fine too but again, he should be a starter. They desperately need another guy they can count on in the 7th, 8th in a close game. Perkins and Jepsen can't pitch every day.

[gunnarthor]

Shouldn't a thread like this wait until at least the winter meetings are over or til we see where Sipp is going?  Unless I missed something, many good relievers are still out there. 

 

According to mlbtraderumors, two LH relief pitchers have signed a ML deal at this point and only 9 non-closers have signed ML deals.  Seems a bit early for another "Ryan has failed us" thread. 

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016-mlb-free-agent-tracker

[South Dakota Tom]

From a "did something happen today" standpoint, yes, I'm disappointed.    But from the perspective of guessing what deals may have been offered and whether or not TR should have bitten on any of them (or created ones of his own that have been turned down), I'm less concerned.    The trade candidates on this team are (according to many) Trevor Plouffe and Ricky Nolasco.    Offers for Plouffe are probably underwhelming because teams still think we won't roll with Sano in the outfield.    Offers for Nolasco are probably underwhelming.    In both instances, it is a completely reasonable baseball decision to wait.

 

 

Therefore, the reasonable course of action is to wait, other than straight up trades that you like, or free agents you have targeted.    I'm not convinced that the winter meetings are the time to do either one of those - it all feels like an auction gone wild right now in the FA RP market.    I know it is frustrating, but it isn't bad baseball.   

[Platoon]

Right. TR was uncharacteristically aggressive, filled most holes, and now we are going crazy over a LH reliever and perhaps a 4th OF. Makes sense.

 

Despite what people might think, ONE free agent LH relief pitcher has been signed so far.

 

And it is absolutely wise to wait and see what OFs might drop.

 

So I would wait until a few more come off the board personally.

I had to check the date on this, I assumed this referred to a different year!

[USAFChief]

Shouldn't a thread like this wait until at least the winter meetings are over or til we see where Sipp is going?  Unless I missed something, many good relievers are still out there. 

 

According to mlbtraderumors, two LH relief pitchers have signed a ML deal at this point and only 9 non-closers have signed ML deals.  Seems a bit early for another "Ryan has failed us" thread. 

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016-mlb-free-agent-tracker

Who are some of the many good relievers still out there?

[bird]

 

He filled most holes?

He got a backup C while opening a hole in the OF, and took a flyer on a fairly cheap potential DH.

The rest of the team hasn't been touched.

 

Or, one might phrase it this way: he got a catcher who is better, created an opening in the OF for a better player, and outbid every other team for a middle of the order bat, thereby improving the team at three spots in the order, perhaps more if one considers the positive effect Park's bat might have on Plouffe's and Sano's production.

 

He's not bringing back Duensing or Boyer, so he's even "touched" the bullpen. I'm not sure what people would have him do other than find a LH reliever and a 4th OF, which he's working on, or trade or sign an ace for $200M, which he's not working on. 

[jimmer]

It's premature to label Park a middle of the order MLB bat considering he's never played one professional game for any MLB organization.  It's also not necessarily true they outbid every other team for him. We don't know how many bid for him and it's not like we broke the bank to get him.  It's not like all these teams just threw up their hands and said we can't match the Twins huge offer. Did we outbid every other team for Nishioka too?

 

And getting a backup catcher is fine, except now we have two of those and no quality starting catcher. We don't know that we have a better player than Hicks available either, at least not one that is ready in the system. Unless you're 100% on board with having Sano out there (which only improves the offense while hurting the defense).

[bird]

We may not like the fact that the Twins haven't announced a deal we like during the meetings. But to describe the Twins as Inactive is farcical. We hardly have the slightest inkling about what goes on.

[jimmer]

 

We may not like the fact that the Twins haven't announced a deal we like during the meetings. But to describe the Twins as Inactive is farcical. We hardly have the slightest inkling about what goes on.

But we do know while other teams have completed transactions, after attempting to do so, we haven't while also attempting to do so.  Is that fairly accurate?

 

Sports is a pretty results oriented business right?  Points for trying don't really accumulate.

 

Try not.  Do, or do not.  There is no try.

[USAFChief]

When "not bringing back Duensing or Boyer" is listed among your GM's greatest offseason accomplishments, you're having to squint pretty hard to come up with a list, no?