Who's the man up the middle?

[GACbaseball]

It's been since the glory days of Cristian Guzman and Luis Rivas that the Twins have had two competent guys up the middle and we have seen a lot of success this year with Escobar (2nd half) and Dozier (1st half). With a TON of talent infused in the minor leagues, we shouldn't have to suffer through any seasons of Nishioka, Punto, or Bret Boone for the foreseaable future.

Because of all the negativity on these forums lately, I thought I'd start a debate on which shortstop/2nd basemen are you most excited about? Who has the highest ceiling and the lowest floor? We have a ton of talent at the top of the system with Escobar already playing well, Danny Santana having a great year last year and showing he has talent, Jorge Polanco knocking at the door and Brian Dozier having an all-star year. In the lower levels, notable names of Nick Gordon, Engelb Vielma, Jermaine Polacios and the newly signed Wander Javier give us even more high-end possibilities.

 

Personally, I'm most excited to see what Wander Javier can do in America, I think Jorge Polanco will be the safest bet to hit, and Nick will end up being the best of the bunch. Who are you most excited about?

[blairpaul715]

I am sure I will get a lot of flak , but Dozier is not untouchable, meaning we could/should trade him, if we can get a high quality player back.......I love his HR and his defense, but his pull happiness has me frustrated with him, and we should be able to find a 2nd basemen with his same defensive prowess(he is good, not great) and hopefully a better BA and or OBP.

[GACbaseball]

That's fine to not be a huge fan of Dozier, but what guys in our system are you excited about? Let's be positive here, not hate the guys we have

[blairpaul715]

 

That's fine to not be a huge fan of Dozier, but what guys in our system are you excited about? Let's be positive here, not hate the guys we have

Polanco for sure!!!! Escobar would be a good one too, if we can find a upgrade at SS........i prefer Dozier to change his ways offensively and at least be open to going opposite field, it just smacks of indifference , which in turn seems arrogant..........and he doesnt strike me that way with the way he seems to live his life, full of giving.

[Lonestar]

 

It's been since the glory days of Cristian Guzman and Luis Rivas that the Twins have had two competent guys up the middle ...

I understand that when we disagree we are supposed to disagree without being disagreeable, but Luis Rivas was never competent.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I'm not sure the words glory days and Luis Rivas should ever apply.  Rivas was pretty dreadful as a Twin. 

 

That said, I'd be hesitant to trade Dozier unless the return was really good.  I know he's fallen off the map each of the last two years, but I don't think that's b/c hitters are figuring him out.  I think that's b/c he's tiring out.  A bit more support and he could get the occasional offday.  Polanco will not match him both offensively and defensively.  If it's for a king's ransome (one that includes taking Nolasco off our hands), sure... but beyond that, I think Dozier stays with the Twins. 

[Platoon]

I would trade Dozier and whatever for a catcher, if one can be found. I don't think Doziers second half is and aberration, I think it's reality. I would also do the same with Plouffe. Neither player has been in the forefront of the WC chase, and trading Plouffe clears a roster log jam slightly. I like Polanco, but I don't think his arm plays at SS.

[Dman]

I like what Gordon and Vielma have done this year but I am the most excited about Polacios right now.  I know it is at a low level but his hit tool seems really, really good.  I don't know a lot about his defense but the box scores stand out.  Especially the multi hit games.  Way too early to say but I think he might be the best of the bunch.

 

I am interested to see Wander as well as the price tag there was very high.  Hoping for great things there as well.

 

I really do like them all and feel they all have great potential.  Time will tell which ones have the most success.

[bird]

I don't think it's hating on Dozier to view him as a trade chip with great potential. I'd be cool with taking a chance on Polanco in 2016 if Dozier could net us a young catcher, maybe a Swihart type, or a young stud who projects as a front-line starter who's a year away.

 

I haven't lost all hope for Danny Santana to re-emerge, but I could see being content with Escobar as a place-holder for Gordon for two seasons. Gordon has a chance to be special. Wander Javier is an uncertainty, but he'll be fun to follow like we did Sano.

[diehardtwinsfan]

yeah sorry, but I don't see Polanco doing what Dozier did this year or last (second half swoons included) any time soon.  I don't think we realize just how much of an impact Dozier has made.  I'd trade him for the right package, but my asking price would be sky high...  Plouffe is a bit of a different story there in that there's a very suitable replacement.

[bluechipper]

I'm excited to see what Jorge Polanco could do with an extended amount of playing time at the mlb level. I think he could definitely hit in the .290-.300 range with 10-15 HR and 20-25 SB. That would be way more than adequate for either second base or shortstop.

[DocBauer]

I still like Polanco a lot. Personally, I feel he hasn't yet hit full stride as a hitter, even as good as he's been. He could make Dozier tradable if he can't stick at SS. Not than I'm saying we should trade him.

 

On a lesser note, I am very intrigued by Levi Michael as a nice, versatile utility player. He's been more healthy as of late and his production has greatly improved.

[dgwills]

I see the future being Gordon at SS and Polanco and 2nd. Think of the speed we will have by then. There's not really any one else that I think can make it as a full time starter. I think we should trade Plouffe this offseason and Dozier next offseason for MOAR prospects. Keeping the farm system strong will make the Twins competitive for many years. Unless they could get a catcher of course.

[Guest]

It won't come to pass yet next year, but I'm starting to believe Polanco and Gordon are the future middle infield in Minnesota, with Vielma in a utility role. Javier certainly has to be considered highly, but that's so far in to the future, I'm not ready to think about it (remember how long ago Sano was signed and he just now finally arrived).

 

I see Dozier/Escobar through most, if not all, of 2016.

[bird]

 

yeah sorry, but I don't see Polanco doing what Dozier did this year or last (second half swoons included) any time soon.  I don't think we realize just how much of an impact Dozier has made.  I'd trade him for the right package, but my asking price would be sky high...  Plouffe is a bit of a different story there in that there's a very suitable replacement.

 

 

Yeah, I think you could be totally right about that. I guess my thinking is we're not going deep in the playoffs anytime soon without both a catcher who is superior both defensively and offensively to Suzuki (who's a perfect back-up catcher) and at least one more frontline starter. Our best trade chips for acquiring those are Plouffe and Dozier. I 'm with you on making it a steep asking price.

 

Maybe Wieters as a free agent? But what are the chances....

[2wins87]

I know the guys who have already moved off short to 2B aren't quite as exciting, but I'll echo Levi Michael as a guy who's finally come around and could end up as a solid depth guy, and also mention Luis Arraez as another exciting long term guy.

 

I don't think moving Dozier this offseason would be wise since I don't think Polanco or anyone else is very likely to match his production next year, and the plan should be to be as competitive as possible next year.  After next year, the timing might be more apt, but Dozier looks to be an important part of the 2016 Twins who should be postseason contenders, why break that up?

[Mike Sixel]

I really like Gordon's future, liked the pick, like the progress. I have no idea what Polanco can or can't do, but I don't think he's a SS long term. I base that on nothing much, frankly......so it probably isn't worth much.

[Vanimal46]

Considering I haven't seen these guys play, other than the couple cups of coffee from Polanco, this is purely speculation:

 

The Twins certainly need Nick Gordon to develop, losing out on a #5 overall pick would really hurt. The 10,000 foot overview of him has some concerns... He didn't take a lot of walks - 39 in 535 PA - he'll need to find ways to get on base other than hitting - .336 OBP / .696 OPS - Baseball Reference still has him listed at 160 lbs. - has he put on any sort of meat on those bones? 

 

Polanco certainly has an MLB ready bat, question is will the defensive struggles improve or continue? I'd like to see him next year as the next guy up in case Escobar doesn't work out at SS.

 

Wander Javier is a highly touted signing, but he's also 16 years old. We have a loooooong wait until he's anywhere close to MLB ready.

 

To answer your question, I'm most excited about Polanco, because he appears to be the closest to MLB ready, and already profiles a + bat for the lineup. 

 

 

 

 

[ashbury]

I don't think moving Dozier this offseason would be wise since I don't think Polanco or anyone else is very likely to match his production next year,

Which Dozier? First Half Brian or Second Half Brian. The bar is set considerably lower for Polanco in the second case. Of course we don't get much in return if we trade Second Half Brian, either.

[2wins87]

 

Which Dozier? First Half Brian or Second Half Brian. The bar is set considerably lower for Polanco in the second case. Of course we don't get much in return if we trade Second Half Brian, either.

 

I'm talking full season Dozier, who we should expect to be a 3-4 win player as he's been over the last 2 seasons, which is a tall order for a rookie with inconsistent defense and so-so plate discipline.  That's not meant to be a dig on Polanco.  He's got a great hit tool and really good defensive tools too, but moving a proven veteran for an unproven prospect is a good way of finding yourself with a near contender with a gaping hole. 

[ashbury]

 but moving a proven veteran

Just to be clear, I'm pretty much on the fence on this one (like any choice with arguments to be made on both sides ), and not really inclined to trade Dozier. I just find these second half fades disconcerting, and since it seems like they come from pitchers making adjustments and Brian not making adjustments in return, there's a risk some year soon that he doesn't start out hot.

[South Dakota Tom]

I'm excited about several of them, at varying degrees of distance from the bigs.  All the names mentioned are exciting (I'm most high on Gordon right now), even without pretty solid glove/bat combos like Beresford and others also available.

 

I could see Escobar at SS and Polanco at 2B next year, with Santana as a utility player.  It would be a big gamble to lose Dozier and Plouffe and make room for Sano at 3B.  I think our defense would be fine (and the enhanced outfield D means we are better overall than what we've trotted out for years) but unless that package accomplishes multiple things, I'm worried to lose that much mid-veteran leadership and middle-of-the-order talent.

 

We would have to get back a young front-line starter, the removal of the remainder of Nolasco's contract, AND a young catcher (not Wieters) under team control for several years who is a madman defensively. 

 

That would be the future - young catcher, Mauer, Polanco, Escobar, Sano, Rosario, Buxton, Hicks, and a DH combo package of two of Vargas/Arcia/ABW, with Santana, Suzuki, and Kepler getting regular turns.

 

Santana, Duffey, Hughes, Gibson, Berrios, new guy, and Milone, and a solid bullpen that wouldn't take much overhauling depending on what happens with May and Pelfrey (who, as many have suggested, probably won't sign a reliever's contract).

 

That team is fast, young, strong-armed, powerful, and many of them have already played together for years, and very successfully.  It would be a big risk going that young that fast, but we'd open up a pretty huge window for success with lots of money available over time to solidify whatever wasn't working. 

 

At the risk (already taken) of veering well off-topic, losing the contracts of Hunter, Nolasco, Pelfrey, Nunez, plus what Plouffe and Dozier would make next year is pushing $40M.

[jimbo92107]

Given the glut of good infield prospects, I would consider trading Dozier, but only for a Lucroy level catcher or a top pitching prospect, and not a guy with bad control like Meyer. More like a Kohl Stewart, a guy with a high floor and very high ceiling, in AA. I can see Escobar - Polanco for a couple years, then Gordon - Polanco for the next five. Otherwise stand pat with Escobar - Dozier for a year. I really don't mind having Dozier's defense, power hitting, baseball savvy and team leadership. He has become the combination of Punto and Pedroia that I hoped he'd be.

[ashbury]

Given the glut of good infield prospects, I would consider trading Dozier,

I'm not convinced that the bats of any of these prospects is truly ready for 2016.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not convinced that the bats of any of these prospects is truly ready for 2016.

Agreed, 100%.

[Bob Sacamento]

 

Polanco for sure!!!! Escobar would be a good one too, if we can find a upgrade at SS........i prefer Dozier to change his ways offensively and at least be open to going opposite field, it just smacks of indifference , which in turn seems arrogant..........and he doesnt strike me that way with the way he seems to live his life, full of giving.

Dozier has one opposite field HR this year (and that just happened last week or so), the rest are pretty much pull homers.  I think everyone knows what you're getting at this point with Dozier, he's arguably the most powerful 2B in MLB right now but won't hit for average (.250 or below) and plays decent defense at 2B.

[blairpaul715]

 

Dozier has one opposite field HR this year (and that just happened last week or so), the rest are pretty much pull homers.  I think everyone knows what you're getting at this point with Dozier, he's arguably the most powerful 2B in MLB right now but won't hit for average (.250 or below) and plays decent defense at 2B.

But we can do better, dont you think?? Dont get me wrong, i really like the person he is and the player is pretty good, but i feel we could do even better, maybe finding a good defensive 2nd basemen that hits .275 plus and good defense are hard to find. But i also know we could do alot worse

[ashbury]

But we can do better, dont you think??

You're still talking about force-feeding young players who aren't ready to achieve that level of offense quite yet. And few are higher on Polanco than I am. But a year at AAA should do his bat some good.

[blairpaul715]

 

You're still talking about force-feeding young players who aren't ready to achieve that level of offense quite yet. And few are higher on Polanco than I am. But a year at AAA should do his bat some good.

I am not necessarily advocating trading Dozier, just if you can get a good return, i certainly wouldnt be against it, one position that the Nationals are in search of, I would look into it.

[ashbury]

I am not necessarily advocating trading Dozier, just if you can get a good return, i certainly wouldnt be against it, one position that the Nationals are in search of, I would look into it.

But this amounts to the same scenario as when it was deemed wise to shop both Span and Revere because Hicks had had a good season in AA. (Actually Hicks 2012 numbers at New Britain were  better than Polanco's 2015 in Chattanooga.)