Phil Hughes moving forward

[DaveW]

I know the other "option" to pitch yesterday would have been Pelfrey, but watching the game it was apparent that Hughes really had no business starting that game.

 

I get wanting him back, but having him miss that long, with no rehab starts in the middle of a playoff race? Seems like it was a disaster waiting to happen.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's a difficult situation. We're approaching the end of the season. Hughes can't make MiLB starts. Down the stretch and into the playoffs, the Twins will probably need Hughes.

 

I'm most disappointed by the velocity. If Phil doesn't get back to 92-93 in his next start, then he probably doesn't have any business in an MLB rotation.

 

But I can't really fault the Twins for trying, though. It's a risk but one I'd be willing to take.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Hughes could have made a rehab start in the minors, just not on the Twins preferred date.

[spinowner]

Better to try him out against the Tigers than against the Angels. 

[DaveW]

They could have brought him back in the pen for an apperance or two to see how he looked.

[USAFChief]

They certainly had hiim throw in the pen a couple times, the lack of velocity shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone.

 

It was a mistake, and an avoidable one.

[Willihammer]

Provus said during the game yesterday that Hughes would be "available" out of the pen this weekend. Not sure if that means his role has changed or not.

 

In other news, Nolasco is going to be starting simulated games in Ft Myers. All acounts are he has worked hard to rehab the ankle injury.

[jimbo92107]

What a log jam in the starting ro next spring. We're looking at three high-priced veterans - Hughes, Nolasco and Pelfrey, that might not be as good as younger, cheaper guys brought up through the system - Gibson, May, Duffey and Berrios. Add to that confusion the distinct possibility that all three veterans may look good in spring, tempting the Twins to keep May in the pen, with Duffey and Berrios stuck in AAA until one or more of the veterans implodes or gets hurt again. And that's not even counting Tommy Milone, who depending apparently on chance has looked either like the best pitcher on the staff, or the worst.

[LaBombo]

Why bring him back so early?   So that we can have more discussions about the "logjam" of starting pitching depth as soon as possible.    Even the usually skeptical Gleeman used the term this week.

[blairpaul715]

Well dependent on how Pelfrey and Milone do their next turns, I would be fine with Hughes in bullpen, knowing his past success.

[Kwak]

Apparently the Twins have been made aware of the rants :shoot:  from TD about the bullpen so Hughes was moved to the pen so he can pitch to RHB in "high leverage situations".  

[RJM96]

Last year's number one guy, Phil Hughes, was demoted to the bullpen yesterday for what looks to be the rest of the season. Hughes has previously spent time in the bullpen in New York. While I am certain that he is the guy for us on opening day 2016, and probably for a few more seasons, what is his future role with the team? What are the odds that he spends the latter half of his contract (2018-2019) in the bullpen? By that time the Twins should (hopefully) be in World Series contention. A move to the bullpen makes room for guys like Stephen Gonsalves and Kohl Stewart. And no, it doesn't make sense to be paying your setup guy thirteen million a year. But if you have forty percent of your rotation making half a million a year, does that justify it? I love Phil Hughes. I hope he retires a Twin.

[nytwinsfan]

It totally depends on his health. Hopefully he can get his body right, in which case he should be starting. I could see him moving to the bullpen at some point in the latter part of his contract, but right now he should be starting as soon as he is healthy.

[mikelink45]

The announcers complain about Logan Darnell being down and we have no long relief.  Isn't this September?  Couldn't we call up Dean and Berrios and every other starter?   We watch the "veteran melt down" that is Hughes, Pelfrey, Milone as we save the arms of the youth who could have each started one game during this stretch.  I consider the pitching staff to be a much bigger issue than Buxton.  In recent weeks defense has been particularly important with the current staff.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

 

What a log jam in the starting ro next spring. We're looking at three high-priced veterans - Hughes, Nolasco and Pelfrey, that might not be as good as younger, cheaper guys brought up through the system - Gibson, May, Duffey and Berrios. Add to that confusion the distinct possibility that all three veterans may look good in spring, tempting the Twins to keep May in the pen, with Duffey and Berrios stuck in AAA until one or more of the veterans implodes or gets hurt again. And that's not even counting Tommy Milone, who depending apparently on chance has looked either like the best pitcher on the staff, or the worst.

I think Pelfrey won't be back, but Santana will be, so the math works out the same way.

[Jham]

I've been calling for Hughes to move to the pen for months now.  Pen was broken.  Hughes was having a rough go.  Maybe he doesn't get hurt if he was moved.  He's been successful in the pen in the past compared with May who'd never relieved.  Now how to stretch May back out...

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The announcers complain about Logan Darnell being down and we have no long relief.  Isn't this September?  Couldn't we call up Dean and Berrios and every other starter?

They have to be on the 40-man, but still that's not much excuse.  Logan Darnell apparently wasn't good enough to crack our iffy pen for 5 months this year, I don't think you can count on him to suddenly step up in September.

 

Berrios was the obvious candidate, but that ship has sailed.  But they've got at least one 40-man spot that's as good as open (Aaron Thompson), so they could add another fungible pitcher for temporary long relief help (Bowden, Hamburger, etc.) -- they're absolutely not being "forced" to use Achter in those spots.

[Willihammer]

OK so just to recap, here is how the Twins rotation has worked out lately.

Starter Date Days Rest
Milone 2-Sep 5
Gibson 3-Sep 5
Pelfrey 4-Sep 5
Santana 5-Sep 5
Duffey 6-Sep 4
Milone 7-Sep 4
Gibson 8-Sep 4
Pelfrey 9-Sep 4
Santana 11-Sep 5
Milone 12-Sep 4
Gibson 13-Sep 4
Duffey 14-Sep 7
Hughes 15-Sep *6
Santana 16-Sep 4
Milone 17-Sep 4

Peflrey is scheduled to pitch today on 8 days rest. He will be followed by Gibson (5) and Duffey (5).

Hughes would be scheduled for the Sept-22 game but with an off day on the 21st the Twins can keep everyone on 5 days rest for one more turn through the rotation. Hughes will be available from the pen this weekend however I believe the plan is to re-insert him into the rotation for the 9/27 start at DET and the 10/3 start against KC. This is based on what I recall Molitor telling Provus on the radio.

If that's the case Hughes will most likely be unavailable from the pen for the 9/25-9/26 games against the Tigers.

[ashbury]

The announcers complain about Logan Darnell being down and we have no long relief.  Isn't this September?  Couldn't we call up Dean and Berrios and every other starter?  

Just to clarify what was said above...

 

You can call up every guy who is on the 40-man roster, for merely the cost of paying his MLB salary for that time.

 

But guys not yet on the 40-man can be added only if you make a corresponding move to take someone off. And then you can't easily drop them, which may have ramifications (e.g. the rule-5 draft in December). It being September doesn't simply mean it's open season to bring up youngsters.

[nicksaviking]

To me, the biggest red flag with Hughes was his sharp velocity decline this year.  I wondered if it was due to aging, injury or some kind of tinkering as Hughes has been known to be a tinkerer. 

 

I'm wondering how the velocity will be out of the pen.  If he can't bump it up to past levels, I'm really concerned about the rest of his contract.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

But guys not yet on the 40-man can be added only if you make a corresponding move to take someone off. And then you can't easily drop them, which may have ramifications (e.g. the rule-5 draft in December). It being September doesn't simply mean it's open season to bring up youngsters.

Youngsters, no.  But it is open season to bring up SOMEBODY, though, with Aaron Thompson's 40-man roster spot ripe for the taking (at minimum). 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

To me, the biggest red flag with Hughes was his sharp velocity decline this year.

Deleted the rest of the quote just so I could say "yep".

 

I have no idea why his velocity is down but I'm almost certain some (all) of his issues are tied to his decreased velo.

 

Hughes isn't a fireballer. He got by with solid velocity and good movement. Take that good 94mph velocity and drop it to a mediocre 92mph and he's a very hittable pitcher.

[nicksaviking]

Deleted the rest of the quote just so I could say "yep".

 

I have no idea why his velocity is down but I'm almost certain some (all) of his issues are tied to his decreased velo.

 

Hughes isn't a fireballer. He got by with solid velocity and good movement. Take that good 94mph velocity and drop it to a mediocre 92mph and he's a very hittable pitcher.

I hope you agree with that take because I now see you said the same thing in post number two! My bad, should have read the tread more thoroughly.

[mikelink45]

 

Just to clarify what was said above...

 

You can call up every guy who is on the 40-man roster, for merely the cost of paying his MLB salary for that time.

 

But guys not yet on the 40-man can be added only if you make a corresponding move to take someone off. And then you can't easily drop them, which may have ramifications (e.g. the rule-5 draft in December). It being September doesn't simply mean it's open season to bring up youngsters.

And we do not have any on the 40 we can shed?

[sane]

And we do not have any on the 40 we can shed?

Aaron Thompson is shedible.

[sane]

so they could add another fungible pitcher for temporary long relief help

I thought a "fungible" pitcher was a pitcher who is able to hit fungoes during batting practice. Thank you for hepin' mah larnin'.

[Danchat]

Apparently, Hughes is re-entering the rotation to take over for Milone.

 

I'm not sure Hughes has the velocity to do it, frankly. But Milone has been terrible, so I get it.

 

Pelfrey is still somehow in this rotation, too.

[DaveW]

When Pelfreys "spot" shows up, I would rather they just go with a bullpen type gameplan. 3-4 innings from Pelf. 2-3 from Graham. And roll from there.