Berrios ETA

[RJM96]

Okay so Terry Ryan did something very Terry Ryan-esque and shut down Jose Berrios after a dominant year. IMO he deserved the promotion a month ago. This being said, how far into 2016 does he get the call up? Opening day? May? June?

[DaveW]

I'm guessing July:

 

Hughes

Santana

Nolasco

Gibson

Milone

Duffey

May

Pelfrey (Fresh off a 1 year, 7 mil deal)

 

Will all be ahead of him on the Terry Ryan Pecking order out of spring training.

[stringer bell]

I expect April 20 from a business standpoint. While I won't necessarily like it, I expect the first five from Dave's list above to start the season. That would put May in the bullpen. I don't expect Pelfrey to be re-signed and Duffey either is a bullpen piece of goes to Rochester, along with Berrios and Byron Buxton.

[drjim]

Clearly they wait until 2017, more years of control.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm actually pretty okay with him getting shut down if they did it for arm reasons. I wouldn't have made that choice but I don't have to agree with every decision 100% to not get too upset about it. I'm also okay if they call him up around May 1st next season (or the first time someone is injured or ineffective) to get that extra year of service time.

 

I'm not okay with the Twins punting until July to save a few bucks. They already saved a bunch of money by punting Sano and Buxton to July. If they need Berrios before that point and don't call him up, I'm going to lose my mind.

[Seth Stohs]

 

I expect April 20 from a business standpoint. While I won't necessarily like it, I expect the first five from Dave's list above to start the season. That would put May in the bullpen. I don't expect Pelfrey to be re-signed and Duffey either is a bullpen piece of goes to Rochester, along with Berrios and Byron Buxton.

 

Yup, this would be the Kris Bryant decision. It's the smart thing to do.

[David HK]

 

Yup, this would be the Kris Bryant decision. It's the smart thing to do.

But if he's not up by April 21, I'm going to start tapping my foot impatiently.  

 

[Squirrel]

Heh ... I'm already looking forward to Spring Training now ... sort of ...

[mikelink45]

Despite the cliches' it is not smart to keep a good arm throwing in the minors when they belong in the majors.  If every arm has a limit before it breaks down, then use it in the majors.  This cliche' is even older than Terry Ryan and just as boring.  The same thing with the super two.  When players are good they get extensions in their second or third year (of course the Twins gave Dozier the new contract and forgot to add any years) and this does not come in to play if the teams are aggressive and forward thinking. 

 

Berrios should be here now and my big fear is a resigning of Pelfrey.

[nicksaviking]

 

 

 

I'm not okay with the Twins punting until July to save a few bucks. They already saved a bunch of money by punting Sano and Buxton to July. If they need Berrios before that point and don't call him up, I'm going to lose my mind.

 

I could see another long season for Berrios in AAA next year, but I still wouldn't put it on pinching pennies. 

 

The decision to keep signing vets to un-movable long term deals is going to be what causes Berrios' delay.  It would take a rash of injuries or unlikely trades to get Berrios up any time before mid-summer next year.

 

Santana and Hughes cannot be moved, Gibson will get a long leash and Milone is the only lefty starter in town.  At least one of Duffey or May will get a chance at starting, and if one falters, the other will get a shot (and rightfully so, they both should be in the rotatoin).  Nolasco will at least get another shot in spring training, if he's not a disaster in March, he'll get his shot at some point, just like Pelfrey somehow got a third chance this year.  Speaking of, the team seems to love Pelfrey, it's a long shot, but another reunion can't be ruled out.

 

It might be awhile before we see Berrios.  I guess the silver lining would be that it would probably mean the rotation at least isn't terrible, just terribly boring.

[Shane Wahl]

No starts past 5 innings for Rochester in April, please. Wasted innings in AAA for Berrios have already piled up.

 

To those who commend Ryan based on the innings issue for this year . . . you are aware, right, that there are ways to limit minor league innings so as to be able to use those innings for the Big Club when the Big Club is actually potentially headed for the playoffs?

[drjim]

 

Heh ... I'm already looking forward to Spring Training now ... sort of ...

 

The best is going to be when Nolasco is in the opening day rotation and Berrios is back in Rochester.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I could see another long season for Berrios in AAA next year, but I still wouldn't put it on pinching pennies. 

 

The decision to keep signing vets to un-movable long term deals is going to be what causes Berrios' delay.  It would take a rash of injuries or unlikely trades to get Berrios up any time before mid-summer next year.

 

Santana and Hughes cannot be moved, Gibson will get a long leash and Milone is the only lefty starter in town.  At least one of Duffey or May will get a chance at starting, and if one falters, the other will get a shot (and rightfully so, they both should be in the rotatoin).  Nolasco will at least get another shot in spring training, if he's not a disaster in March, he'll get his shot at some point, just like Pelfrey somehow got a third chance this year.  Speaking of, the team seems to love Pelfrey, it's a long shot, but another reunion can't be ruled out.

 

It might be awhile before we see Berrios.  I guess the silver lining would be that it would probably mean the rotation at least isn't terrible, just terribly boring.

It's my opinion one of those guys should be put in the bullpen to start 2016 (obviously, a lot can change here) or traded. Milone seems the most logical option to me... He won't bring back a lot in return but you can get something for him.

 

Seven starters + Berrios is too much... It's time to move an asset or throw a guy in the pen. The likes of Nolasco shouldn't stop Berrios from reaching Minnesota.

[Major League Ready]

 

I'm actually pretty okay with him getting shut down if they did it for arm reasons. I wouldn't have made that choice but I don't have to agree with every decision 100% to not get too upset about it. I'm also okay if they call him up around May 1st next season (or the first time someone is injured or ineffective) to get that extra year of service time.

 

I'm not okay with the Twins punting until July to save a few bucks. They already saved a bunch of money by punting Sano and Buxton to July. If they need Berrios before that point and don't call him up, I'm going to lose my mind.

On what basis to you suggest Sano and/or Buxton should have been up earlier.  Buxton still is not ready and they called Sano up a couple months after returning from TJ surgery.   The premise they were "punted" to save money is absolutely ridiculous.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

On what basis to you suggest Sano and/or Buxton should have been up earlier.  Buxton still is not ready and they called Sano up a couple months after returning from TJ surgery.  

I don't think they did anything wrong with either Buxton or Sano. My apologies if it came off that way.

 

My point was the Twins saved Super 2 status on two possibly elite players. They shouldn't be overly concerned with doing it a third time if the team needs Berrios on the roster before that point.

[diehardtwinsfan]

mid season next year.  I think a lot will depend on how the rotation gets shuffled this offseason.  Too many guys ahead of Berrios on the pecking order, and guys like Santana/Nolasco/Huges won't get cut...  If someone can be traded, perhaps. 

[nicksaviking]

 

It's my opinion one of those guys should be put in the bullpen to start 2016 (obviously, a lot can change here) or traded. Milone seems the most logical option to me... He won't bring back a lot in return but you can get something for him.

 

Seven starters + Berrios is too much... It's time to move an asset or throw a guy in the pen. The likes of Nolasco shouldn't stop Berrios from reaching Minnesota.

 

I agree, it's time to get creative and move some starters.  I disagree with Milone and his 87 MPH fastball in the pen though.  I think he does have some value based on his track record.  I personally wouldn't require a goldmine to move him, just something to save face.  I'm not sure what the front office thinks though as there aren't any other lefties to turn to.

 

Assuming Sanatana, Hughes and Nolasco can't be moved (it would be great if that assumption turned out to be wrong), I think Gibson should be shopped hard.  He's still young, cheap and controlable. He also showed a lot of improvement this year, he would have a lot of suitors.  Sounds like a guy the Twins should keep, but they can't keep everyone and I'd prefer the even younger, cheaper and controlable Berrios, May and Duffey. Also, they strike guys out and I'm pretty gung-ho about changing the dynamic of the rotation.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I agree, it's time to get creative and move some starters.  I disagree with Milone and his 87 MPH fastball in the pen though.  I think he does have some value based on his track record.  I personally wouldn't require a goldmine to move him, just something to save face.  I'm not sure what the front office thinks though as there aren't any other lefties to turn to.

 

Assuming Sanatana, Hughes and Nolasco can't be moved, I think Gibson should be shopped hard.  He's still young, cheap and controlable. He also showed a lot of improvement this year, he would have a lot of suitors.  Sounds like a guy the Twins should keep, but they can't keep everyone and I'd prefer the even younger, cheaper and controlable Berrios, May and Duffey. Also, they strike guys out and I'm pretty gung-ho about changing the dynamic of the rotation.

I'd try to move Milone first, then Gibson... At least that's the quick answer without giving it a ton of thought.

 

Or maybe somebody goes nuts and offers something for Duffey. I really doubt that will happen but I wouldn't rule it out, either.

 

Basically, I'd try to move any one of the guys in front of Berrios not named Trevor May.

[jimmer]

 

I'd try to move Milone first, then Gibson... At least that's the quick answer without giving it a ton of thought.

 

Or maybe somebody goes nuts and offers something for Duffey. I really doubt that will happen but I wouldn't rule it out, either.

 

Basically, I'd try to move any one of the guys in front of Berrios not named Trevor May.

worse thing is, I'd bet neither Berrios or May are in the starting rotation when the 2016 season starts.

[Major League Ready]

 

The best is going to be when Nolasco is in the opening day rotation and Berrios is back in Rochester.

If you recall the discussion on this site during the offseason surrounding free agent SPs, Nolasco was considered a good acquisition most, Hughes was a bit controversial and off course he was great last year.  Then, they added Santana.  Some of us said that’s too many LT contract.  Most said don’t worry about later.  It won’t be a problem.  Some even suggested we pursue other FAs.  Garza for example.

I would have never signed Santana.  At least not after signing Nolasco and Hughes but here we are.  Now many posters that were all over the FO to sign FAs expect the Twins to just punt 20 or 30 or 40M dollars because an exciting young SP is ready to come up.  This is a business.  As much as many of you absolutely completely ignore this fact, those in charge of hundreds of millions in assets don’t punt tens of millions.  Frankly, the disconnect here is that fans expect the FO to do things that would be considered absolute incompetence from a business perspective.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

worse thing is, I'd bet neither Berrios or May are in the starting rotation when the 2016 season starts.

That's definitely possible but I think Ryan will be moderately active this offseason and we'll see some player shuffling.

[DocBauer]

Time to move Nolasco in any way possible. Trade for next to nothing, unless he's part of a package, and toss in some cash if needed. He's not a bad guy or a bad pitcher. But there are a lot of arms now, including young ones, and sometimes you walk away from a situation...bad luck or whatever...that just isn't turning out right.

 

Pelfrey won't be back unless it's as a bullpen option. And I don't see he or his agent going for that. He's helped this year, no question, but also pitched the second half just well enough to lose.

 

Berrios? I'm thinking June 1st if there are no injuries. Saves his service time and lets the Twins sort out the rotation at the ML level with the other options, and perhaps paves a way for a trade early in the year.

[jimmer]

 

That's definitely possible but I think Ryan will be moderately active this offseason and we'll see some player shuffling.

May will be in the pen, Berrios will be in the minors.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

May will be in the pen, Berrios will be in the minors.

Berrios will be in the minors, I'll give you that... But May's fate is very much up in the air. They've said multiple times they'd like to see him start. That doesn't guarantee he *will* start but it shows they recognize his talent.

[jimmer]

 

Berrios will be in the minors, I'll give you that... But May's fate is very much up in the air. They've said multiple times they'd like to see him start. That doesn't guarantee he *will* start but it shows they recognize his talent.

They say a lot of things Brock :-)  Like Anthony saying there was no innings limit thing set for Berrios and then Ryan saying he's reached the innings limit we set for him at the start of the season.

 

There was no reason to remove him from the rotation this season.  And it sure didn't help the rotation after they did it.  Think about this.  The Twins rotation WAR in the 2nd half is 1.6.  May's WAR as a starter before being demoted, 1.7.

[Major League Ready]

 

May will be in the pen, Berrios will be in the minors.

It would be foolish to put Berrios in the starting rotation to begin the year.  I would bet that any GM in ML baseball would keep him down until the super 2 date given our depth at SP.

I hope you are wrong about May.  He should be in the starting rotation and Ryan has been quite consistent that he wants him in the rotation next year.  He has been great as a set-up man but we need to see how he performs as a starter.  He can always go back and relief pitchers are much easier to sign acquire than front of the rotation SPs, especially those that are at league minimum.

The real question is .... Can the Twins find anyone that will take Nolasco, Hughes or Santana.  My preference would be they be dealt in that order.  I don’t care if the get a dozen balls in return.  I guess the real question is how much salary would the Twins have to take back to move any of them.

[drjim]

 

They say a lot of things Brock :-)  Like Anthony saying there was no innings limit thing set for Berrios and then Ryan saying he's reached the innings limit we set for him at the start of the season.

 

There was no reason to remove him from the rotation this season.  And it sure didn't help the rotation after they did it.

 

Though it did help the bullpen, and when they tried to put him back in the rotation it really hurt the pen. He might ultimately be a victim of his own success.

 

I prefer May in the rotation but is it devastating if he ends up in the bullpen?

[Willihammer]

Nolasco to the pen as a RH breaking ball specialist to replace Fien. Hughes to the pen as a late inning replacement to May. May and Berrios to the rotation, problem solved.

 

I know, I know. Its wayyy too simple and therefore crackpot of an idea to ever happen.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

They say a lot of things Brock :-)  Like Anthony saying there was no innings limit thing set for Berrios and then Ryan saying he's reached the innings limit we set for him at the start of the season.

 

There was no reason to remove him from the rotation this season.  And it sure didn't help the rotation after they did it.  Think about this.  The Twins rotation WAR in the 2nd half is 1.6.  May's WAR as a starter before being demoted, 1.7.

I get that but you're kinda acting like it's set in stone... I prefer to get upset about things only after they've happened. I don't see the point in getting riled up about something they've said they don't want to happen and hasn't actually happened yet...

[James]

Most likely rotation scenario that I can imagine to start the year:

 

1. Hughes

2. Santana

3. Gibson

4. Nolasco

5. May

 

AAA to start:

1. Berrios

2. Duffey

 

Meaning Milone is either in the bullpen or dealt.  After a few weeks, around May 1st, Nolasco is either hurt again or moved to the bullpen and Berrios is moved into the rotation.  Duffey will be shuffled back and forth from AAA to keep him stretched out and replaces any pitcher that gets hurt throughout the season.

 

This is just what I see happening, but I could be entirely wrong.