Reyes may be flipped

[DaveW]

 

Dave, you're smarter than this. Don't use anecdotal evidence to support an observation that requires hundreds of data points. If I wanted to make a point, I could dig through the archives and find footage of Ozzie Smith punting a game-losing ball and declare him a terrible shortstop.

You're letting yourself go completely off the rails about Eduardo.

Fun fact: Ozzie Smith shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

 

Fun fact: Escobar is not good enough to be an everyday player.

[brandon5374]

you guys keep talking about going after jose reyes  why not go after someone like starlin castro from the cubs he is younger and I do believe he will be under team control for long time

[jimmer]

 

No, that's still an option if I'm reading this 1st amendment thing correctly.

If by that you mean that  the government can't prosecute anyone for suggesting Mauer gets traded, then yeah you are reading it correctly.

[zenser]

I doubt Colorado would take Nolasco.  Wouldn't Reyes' contract expire before Nolasco's and aren't they roughly the same money?  I wouldn't mind Reyes but I wouldn't give up anything more that Duffey or Rodgers or a couple of lower fringe prospects.

[Craig Arko]

Not sure why anyone would trade for Nolasco until he comes off the DL and shows he can pitch again.

[jimmer]

 

you guys keep talking about going after jose reyes  why not go after someone like starlin castro from the cubs he is younger and I do believe he will be under team control for long time

becausee he's really bad would be my reason not to go after Starlin.

[DaveW]

 

you guys keep talking about going after jose reyes  why not go after someone like starlin castro from the cubs he is younger and I do believe he will be under team control for long time

Castro looks like a disaster currently, but he would be a good buy low candidate, with that said, the Cubs really have no reason to move him for pennies on the dollar currently.

[jimmer]

 

Tulo was the Wendy Peffercorn, the Jenny from Forrest Gump. The guy I was targeting the most to join this team... Jose Reyes is still an above average SS and better than any option that we have on roster... but still. I'm going to view it as a disappointment if we do acquire him.

he's the best shortstop in the game.  It's good to want those guys.

[kab21]

 

I doubt Colorado would take Nolasco.  Wouldn't Reyes' contract expire before Nolasco's and aren't they roughly the same money?  I wouldn't mind Reyes but I wouldn't give up anything more that Duffey or Rodgers or a couple of lower fringe prospects.

After this season Nolasco is owed 2/24 (+1M buyout) and Reyes is owed 2/44 (+4M buyout) so that is a substantial savings.  Being on the DL doesn't really matter if there is a 23M savings.  His value isn't dependent on him pitching.

 

you guys keep talking about going after jose reyes  why not go after someone like starlin castro from the cubs he is younger and I do believe he will be under team control for long time

The problem is that Starlin Castro would cost some actual good prospects and I am not too enamored with him as a player.  He has been involved in some questionable stuff off of the field and he has had 2 poor offensive seasons in the last 3.

[halfchest]

 

Not sure why anyone would trade for Nolasco until he comes off the DL and shows he can pitch again.

 

It would be similar to why they took Reyes back for the Tulo deal.  He may provide some use but it was probably more to even out the money with Toronto.  We would be sending them Nolasco to balance out some of the cost and in turn giving up a better prospect package for Reyes than he would bring if he were traded outright.

 

I don't think they could get much of anything in a straight up deal for Reyes without either sending cash or taking on a bad contract.  At his age he wouldn't get a 2 year deal for 44 million if he were a free agent, but if they take on Nolasco who is signed for 2 more years and 24 million then it would make Reyes 2 years at 20 million look much more valuable. 

[jimmer]

 

Castro looks like a disaster currently, but he would be a good buy low candidate, with that said, the Cubs really have no reason to move him for pennies on the dollar currently.

Since the start of 2013 he has provided less than 2 total WAR.  Wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot poll.  Basically a half win guy.  

[David HK]

 

I wouldn't waste any more thought or effort on SS now that Tulo is out of the picture.  Going into 2016, a serviceable option will arise from a 3-way contest between Escobar, Santana & Polanco.  Each has their own strength & weaknesses, but if one can emerge to be at least consistent, they'll do fine.  Our biggest priority's are the bullpen and finding a productive catcher.  I'm convinced both will need to be addressed from outside of the organization.  I'm not very confident that either can be resolved for this season.  I hate too say it, but the prudent approach may now be to stand pat and pursue trades or FA's over the winter.

I am witcha there, Mr. Gumby.  Didn't want Tulo in the first place, as we're not close enough to hold off the rest of the contenders.  And I SURELY don't want Reyes and that massive $$ load for a declining player.  Unless we can get a soon-to-be-ready C prospect or understudy- for the coming seasons, of course, (and yes, a live arm for the BP) I don't want anything on the shopping list for contending this season. 

[jimmer]

 

It would be similar to why they took Reyes back for the Tulo deal.  He may provide some use but it was probably more to even out the money with Toronto.  

They can likely flip Reyes for some quality prospects.  Cant do that with Nolasco.

[USAFChief]

 

I really don't understand why anyone is against adding Reyes if the Twins can flip Nolasco in the deal. 

 

He has a .700 OPS at SS and would be a no doubt leadoff hitter that the lineup needs.  Yes, he isn't awesome but that is why he is available at a low cost. 

IF you can flip Nolasco, fine.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's not my money and all that yadda yadda but I'd keep Nolasco and try to acquire Reyes because I want to give up as little prospect talent as possible for Jose. Putting Nolasco in the deal forces the Twins to give up a decent prospect.

 

Given how the Rockies basically handed away Tulo, I think it's pretty clear their first and foremost goal is "save money".

[jimmer]

 

After this season Nolasco is owed 2/24 (+1M buyout) and Reyes is owed 2/44 (+4M buyout) so that is a substantial savings.  Being on the DL doesn't really matter if there is a 23M savings.  His value isn't dependent on him pitching.

 

The problem is that Starlin Castro would cost some actual good prospects and I am not too enamored with him as a player.  He has been involved in some questionable stuff off of the field and he has had 2 poor offensive seasons in the last 3.

I think the Cubs would be thrilled to be rid of Starlin's contract and likely wouldn't cost much of anything in the way of prospects

[nicksaviking]

For what it's worth, Colorado's spacious outfield is probably the best park for Reyes' fleeting speed. If I was them I'd see if the park can help inflate his XBH and see if he can regain some value in the offseason.

[jimmer]

 

It's not my money and all that yadda yadda but I'd keep Nolasco and try to acquire Reyes because I want to give up as little prospect talent as possible for Jose. Putting Nolasco in the deal forces the Twins to give up a decent prospect.

 

Given how the Rockies basically handed away Tulo, I think it's pretty clear their first and foremost goal is "save money".

If they flip Reyes for prospects, which they very iikely will, then they basically traded Tulo and Hawkins for the prospects they got from Toronto in this trade AND the prospects they'd get from Reyes.  It really isn't that bad at all, IF they can flip Reyes for some quality prospects.  Looking at this trade, still tells me if the Rockies had just trade Tulo for better prospects and a young ML pitcher, they would have eaten some money.

[halfchest]

 

They can likely flip Reyes for some quality prospects.  Cant do that with Nolasco.

 

See and I think with his current contract they don't get anything for him unless they eat some money or take on a bad contract in return.  Measure it by free agent market.  If Reyes were a free agent this offseason would anyone give him a 2 year 44 million deal???  I highly doubt it, so why would anyone trade for that? 

 

Same with Nolasco although I will say Reyes will at least add value to a team in a Maueresque way.  He'll be overpaid but he'll contribute.  Right now that can't be said about Nolasco. 

 

Truth be told I would bet that Toronto insisted on the Rockies taking Reyes as part of the deal in order to give up the prospects they did for Tulo. 

[jimmer]

Imagine how hard it's going to be to get a ball past the left side of Toronto's infield?  Slightly easier than getting one past Colorado's infield just a day ago :-)

[jimmer]

 

See and I think with his current contract they don't get anything for him unless they eat some money or take on a bad contract in return.  Measure it by free agent market.  If Reyes were a free agent this offseason would anyone give him a 2 year 44 million deal???  I highly doubt it, so why would anyone trade for that? 

 

Same with Nolasco although I will say Reyes will at least add value to a team in a Maueresque way.  He'll be overpaid but he'll contribute.  Right now that can't be said about Nolasco. 

 

Truth be told I would bet that Toronto insisted on the Rockies taking Reyes as part of the deal in order to give up the prospects they did for Tulo. 

They will eat some money they were going to have to anyway if they had just traded Tulo and not gotten Reyes back in a better prospect deal.  But they'll get the prospects.  They are rebuilding.  They should trade Cargo too.

[Winston Smith]

Nolasco for anyone would be a win-win, imo.

[kab21]

 

It's not my money and all that yadda yadda but I'd keep Nolasco and try to acquire Reyes because I want to give up as little prospect talent as possible for Jose. Putting Nolasco in the deal forces the Twins to give up a decent prospect.

 

Given how the Rockies basically handed away Tulo, I think it's pretty clear their first and foremost goal is "save money".

I don't think it's possible for the Rockies to trade Reyes w/o sending money (or taking a contract).  If we can get them to take Nolasco and only give up prospects in the range of ABW, Gonsalves, Hu then I am on board.  If we need to give up Polanco or better prospects then it doesn't make sense.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I don't think it's possible for the Rockies to trade Reyes w/o sending money (or taking a contract).  If we can get them to take Nolasco and only give up prospects in the range of ABW, Gonsalves, Hu then I am on board.  If we need to give up Polanco or better prospects then it doesn't make sense.

Eh, I just don't like Reyes for Gonsalves. I don't see that working out for the Twins in the long run.

 

I'm just not a fan of Reyes when you get right down to it. I don't see his speed or relative power translating to Target Field after being in Toronto for the past few years.

[halfchest]

 

They will eat some money they were going to have to anyway if they had just traded Tulo and not gotten Reyes back in a better prospect deal.  But they'll get the prospects.  They are rebuilding.  They should trade Cargo too.

exactly, I'm pretty sure we agree on this.  That they'll need to eat money in the form of either cash or a bad contract (e.g. Nolasco) in order to get a decent prospect back. 

[tobi0040]

Can we please stop acting like anyone is going to take Ricky Nolasco in a trade?  How would these threads look if the Twins traded for a guy like that?

 

Reyes is making more.  OK.  But his OPS + is 98 this year.  League average and he is a SS.  Teams would find value in that and he has a big name, a guy that has been elite.  2005 was the last time his OPS + was under 100.  Has been as high as 144 before.

 

Nolasco was never an elite type player even in his prime.  In the last two years, he has an ERA of 5.38 and 5.51.   His WHIP is about 1.55.  Oh yeah, he has been mysteriously hurt on and off for two years including elbow issues.  Nobody is trading for the guy.  Period.

[kab21]

 

Eh, I just don't like Reyes for Gonsalves. I don't see that working out for the Twins in the long run.

 

I'm just not a fan of Reyes when you get right down to it. I don't see his speed or relative power translating to Target Field after being in Toronto for the past few years.

I think you overrate Gonsalves or overrate the craptastic options the Twins have at SS.  Reyes is a very solid player that fills a big hole for the Twins not only in the field but also in the lineup at leadoff.

[twinsnorth49]

So we want to solve our SS problems with one of the worst defensive SS in the past 5 years as far as DRS and UZR are concerned. .

 

 

 

His speed isn't even close to making up for that.

 

Why bother?

[USAFChief]

I desperately want the Twins to use some of the overabundance of minor league talent I keep reading about to improve the current and near future Twins, and even I don't want to trade Gonsalves as part of a deal for Jose Reyes.

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think you overrate Gonsalves or overrate the craptastic options the Twins have at SS. Reyes is a very solid player that fills a big hole for the Twins not only in the field but also in the lineup at leadoff.

I don't think I'm overrating or underrating anyone. Reyes would be an improvement, I just don't like his pay or his player profile going forward.

 

In no way am I suggesting he's not better than their internal options.