Tyler Jay

[gopherman23]

It's too early to panic, but he has had a horrible start to his pro career. He just gave up two more runs tonight, to bring his ERA to over 8. I was never enthused about drafting a guy, in the first round, who has questions whether he can even be a long term starter.

[scottz]

...panic...

[jimbo92107]

 

It's too early to panic, but he has had a horrible start to his pro career. He just gave up two more runs tonight, to bring his ERA to over 8. I was never enthused about drafting a guy, in the first round, who has questions whether he can even be a long term starter.

A horrible start is when you blow out your elbow in the first inning. Getting your ass kicked by pro ballplayers is more like a rude awakening.

 

Tyler Jay is enjoying his first exposure to lineups he can't just strike out with his raw stuff. Some of these guys can actually catch up to his heater, and hit a curve, if it's over the middle. That's why they were drafted.

 

Now Jay will have to figure out how to improve his game, which is why it was so silly to suppose the Twins could just pop him into the mlb bullpen and expect a finished product. He's got pro-level stuff. Now he's got to learn to pick the corners with it, add and subtract, etc.

[Mike Sixel]

Picking a RP.....not my top idea. How is Burdi working out?

[drock2190]

Not worried.

 

Now if he wasn't striking many batters out and walking a bunch then I would be worried. Dude has like 7 innings pitched.

[drjim]

Clearly another wasted first round pick by Terry Ryan.

[jokin]

 

Picking a RP.....not my top idea. How is Burdi working out?

 

I think the Twins learned good lessons from last year's failed plan with "hard throwing" RPs, let Jay get his baptism of fire to find out what works and what doesn't at the proper professional level commensurate with his skill set.  I'm not worried in the least at this point, even if he has to take a temporary demotion.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not worried, but that doesn't mean I like the concept either. Hopefully they are correct......

[spsdrock]

I think it is a completely idiotic idea to try and transform him to a SP when he was a high level RP.  Let him do what he does best and strike people out in relief.  Be nice to have him on the roster next year coming in to set up perkins.

[Monkeypaws]

 

It's too early to panic, but he has had a horrible start to his pro career. He just gave up two more runs tonight, to bring his ERA to over 8. I was never enthused about drafting a guy, in the first round, who has questions whether he can even be a long term starter.

 

Truth.

[Badsmerf]

I don't understand why he isn't starting right now. What is the point in having him pitch as a RP.... when the plan is for him to start. If the reasoning is innings pitched this season, shut him down. I guess I just don't see a reason to "ease" a guy in when he has a full career in college. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't understand why he isn't starting right now. What is the point in having him pitch as a RP.... when the plan is for him to start. If the reasoning is innings pitched this season, shut him down. I guess I just don't see a reason to "ease" a guy in when he has a full career in college.

His full career in college was as a reliever too. If he was on an innings limit, and he was starting the previous couple weeks, he would probably have to be shut down already.

[tobi0040]

Yawn.

[nicksaviking]

 

His full career in college was as a reliever too. If he was on an innings limit, and he was starting the previous couple weeks, he would probably have to be shut down already.

 

This may be true, but if they are too pokey about giving him innings, they'll run the risk of him still in the minors simply due to innings limitations when his options years start counting.

 

Anyone know his velocity so far?  Seems the Twins have had the unfortunate, hopefully not deliberate, situation where their young arms throw harder in college and HS than they do in the pros.

[formerly33]

Seriously ... freaking out about Tyler Jay is taking it a little bit too far, in my humble opinion. I'm too lazy to do the research, but I'd say this is fairly normal. I'm not worried at all. Come on, he's thrown a mere 6.2 innings thus far.

 

Cut him some slack and be patient. I think that hoping that he would be in the majors by the end of the season raised some people's expectations to a ridiculous level, and now you're going into shock since he's not pitching like a man amongst boys (or whatever other comparison you want to use). Think about it! He's in High A Fort Myers. He's not facing easy competition. Give him some time, and he'll find his groove.

 

He's had a long season. Throwing him into the rotation would be an unnecessary stretch ... and I bet I'd hear people whining that he was being pushed too hard if he was in the rotation. Take it easy. This is a very small sample size we're talking about here. Why not pause and imagine getting all excited over a 30th round pick who threw 6.2 scoreless innings to start his professional career.

 

 

[d-mac]

 

This may be true, but if they are too pokey about giving him innings, they'll run the risk of him still in the minors simply due to innings limitations when his options years start counting.

 

Anyone know his velocity so far?  Seems the Twins have had the unfortunate, hopefully not deliberate, situation where their young arms throw harder in college and HS than they do in the pros.

Square peg, meet round hole.

[Kwak]

TWINS--they draft a promising player, but unfortunately not the guy they would have preferred--so, what the.. "let's make him into the guy [we] always wanted?"  The track record of this strategy is....

[tobi0040]

 

TWINS--they draft a promising player, but unfortunately not the guy they would have preferred--so, what the.. "let's make him into the guy [we] always wanted?"  The track record of this strategy is....

 

Most mock drafts had Jay going ahead of where the Twins drafted him. I saw him 2 or 3 on some.  Any team in the top 15 was going to take the guy as a starter and it seemed like a consensus view that he could start given his multiple pitches, delivery, etc. I don't think the Twins were alone in this view.

 

Contrast that with Nick Gordon.  I did not see a single mock draft that had him going ahead of the Twins picked and most big boards had the guy rated lower than where we took him.

 

 

[Seth Stohs]

He'll be fine.

 

It is a reason why I believe that all the college guys should start in E-Town. Especially the pitchers. Let them ease into pro ball. They are only going to pitch one out of every four or five days anyway. They just come off of a long season in which they have thrown in games since early February. They're not getting up to the big leagues anyway. 

 

I just think that they're transitioning in so many ways beyond what happens on the baseball diamond. Let baseball be the "easy" part. Matt Garza spent most of his season after signing in E-Town. Kevin Slowey made 4 appearances there. They ended up in Cedar Rapids pitching at the end of their seasons.

 

The next year, Garza started in Ft. Myers and moved all the way up to the Twins by August. Slowey got all the way to AAA. Brian Duensing pitched at three levels. 

 

I get that we want them up fast, but I don't get the rush.

[drjim]

 

He'll be fine.

 

It is a reason why I believe that all the college guys should start in E-Town. Especially the pitchers. Let them ease into pro ball. They are only going to pitch one out of every four or five days anyway. They just come off of a long season in which they have thrown in games since early February. They're not getting up to the big leagues anyway. 

 

I just think that they're transitioning in so many ways beyond what happens on the baseball diamond. Let baseball be the "easy" part. Matt Garza spent most of his season after signing in E-Town. Kevin Slowey made 4 appearances there. They ended up in Cedar Rapids pitching at the end of their seasons.

 

The next year, Garza started in Ft. Myers and moved all the way up to the Twins by August. Slowey got all the way to AAA. Brian Duensing pitched at three levels. 

 

I get that we want them up fast, but I don't get the rush.

 

A combination of clear mediocrity at certain positions on the big league team, a generally unrealistic view of how prospects perform when called up, and shiny new things.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't see anyone on this thread trying to rush him.....

[markos]

 

Most mock drafts had Jay going ahead of where the Twins drafted him. I saw him 2 or 3 on some.  Any team in the top 15 was going to take the guy as a starter and it seemed like a consensus view that he could start given his multiple pitches, delivery, etc. I don't think the Twins were alone in this view.

 

Contrast that with Nick Gordon.  I did not see a single mock draft that had him going ahead of the Twins picked and most big boards had the guy rated lower than where we took him.

I don't think the narrative is quite a clean as you make it seem. Jay did have a handful of mocks picking him above the #6 pick (notably Mayo and Sickels both had him at #3), but his ranking was almost universally well below #6 on the big boards (ESPN #9, BA #16, BP #10, MLB #9, FG #6). So I got the sense that Jay was an anticipated reach. Gordon may not have been picked ahead of #5 on many mocks, but he was ranked right around #5, at least by the major outlets (ESPN #4, BA #7, BP #4, MLB #5). So while I don't think drafting Jay was a huge overdraft, I do think it was a slight overdraft based on the industry consensus of his talent. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I don't think the narrative is quite a clean as you make it seem. Jay did have a handful of mocks picking him above the #6 pick (notably Mayo and Sickels both had him at #3), but his ranking was almost universally well below #6 on the big boards (ESPN #9, BA #16, BP #10, MLB #9, FG #6). So I got the sense that Jay was an anticipated reach.  

 

Based on this alone, I'd say the pick wasn't a reach.  Everyone ranked him high, with some as high as 3 and low as 16.  This is somewhat normal, especially when he wasn't in the clear first tier. 

[laloesch]

I hate this pick and I hate it even more now, especially now that it appears that Kyle Cody is going back to Kentucky.  Can anyone say BUST! ?

 

I just don't understand Ryan's thinking on this one.  Why waste an extremely valuable high first round draft pick on a college reliever with the intention of converting him to a starter? I mean it can be done and has been done, but it's like buying a square peg for a round hole. Just Silly. 

 

Thoughts?

[LimestoneBaggy]

1. He's Left Handed;

2. His Stuff is/was Impressive in College.

3. He's Left Handed;

4. Velocity; 

5. He's Left Handed.

 

.....Wish I could figure out how to upload a jump to conclusions mat picture here....

 

But seriously, give the guy time to adjust.... The staff could be tweaking things in season, and he might even have some dead arm. I understand if you didn't like the pick, but did I mention he's left handed?

[Kwak]

 

Most mock drafts had Jay going ahead of where the Twins drafted him. I saw him 2 or 3 on some.  Any team in the top 15 was going to take the guy as a starter and it seemed like a consensus view that he could start given his multiple pitches, delivery, etc. I don't think the Twins were alone in this view.

 

Contrast that with Nick Gordon.  I did not see a single mock draft that had him going ahead of the Twins picked and most big boards had the guy rated lower than where we took him.

It seems as if you misunderstood my post (or perhaps should have quoted someone else)--my post wasn't whether Jay was worthy of being 6th (he could be ), but that Jay was evaluated as a shutdown, late-inning relief pitcher.  If that skill-set is worth a 6th OA pick, then Jay should be developed as that player (RP).  My contention is/was that the Twins really wanted a LH, dominant, SP--but unfortunately that player didn't exist.  Hence, the Twins are taking a highly rated prospect and trying to transform him into a different player.  I consider that a poor decision--so poor that Jay is developed into a SP, pushed through the system, and becomes a failure as a SP.  IMO, Jay should be developed just as he was as an amateur (if college atheletes can be considered as amateurs!)--a RP.  The probability of success as a RP will be higher and the progress to the majors should be shorter.  Whether a top RP is worth a 6th OA, is an entirely different discussion.

[drjim]

To say Jay was just a shut down late inning reliever is a little misleading.

 

He relieved in a variety of roles, often going multiple innings, and made a handful of starts, including the last game of the year (the most important for the team).

 

This draft had 5 clear guys and the Twins drafted 6th, that is probably the biggest issue.

[Rosterman]

I'm sure they would like him to go thru a lineup more thn once, show him that he needs to develop other stuff or work more on his speed and location. Make him a pitcher rather than a thrower. Also shows you that there is a major difference between collegiate ball and the minors. Maybe college guys can skip the rookie leages and advance right to A-ball or beyond. Maybe not.

[laloesch]

 

1. He's Left Handed;

2. His Stuff is/was Impressive in College.

3. He's Left Handed;

4. Velocity; 

5. He's Left Handed.

 

.....Wish I could figure out how to upload a jump to conclusions mat picture here....

 

But seriously, give the guy time to adjust.... The staff could be tweaking things in season, and he might even have some dead arm. I understand if you didn't like the pick, but did I mention he's left handed?

So what?  I could easily counter and say.

 

1. Brian Duensing (Left handed reliever, yawn)

2. His stuff looks impressive in College because the hitters aren't as good.

3. Brian Duensing (Left handed reliever, yawn)

4. Velocity?  Everyone knows that collegiate scouts and writers overhype and over clock pitchers because they would have nothing to talk and make money.

5. Brian Duensing (Left handed reliever, yawn)

 

I think when it was the Twins turn to draft #6 they weren't left with any of the choices they wanted and were kinda scratching their heads thinking what to do what to do.  

[DuluthFan]

Tyler Jay has six years to develop before the Twins need to add him to the 40 man roster and start his option years. Add three more option years and Jay has nine years in the minors to prove he can pitch in the major leagues. So he had a bad start to his career, he has many years ahead of him to work on his pitches.

The reason teams convert college relief pitchers to starters in the low minors is to provide more opportunities to work on their pitches. A relief pitcher typically works one or two innings and throws less than 30 pitches per appearance. He may only need to throw fastballs and changeups.

A starter will typically work five or six innings and will be able to use & work on multiple pitches during an appearance. This is the opportunity to add the third and fourth pitches to a pitcher's repetoir.