Twins Franchise Four

[HitInAPinch]

Of the people who were voting, how many were alive when Walter Johnson was pitching?

[spinowner]

 

I'm 35, been a Twins fan since 87...never heard of Walter Johnson until today. Did some research.....holy crap!

 

Thanks for the education guys

Yep. He was what power pitchers aspire to. Think Nolan Ryan with a little bit better fastball and much better control.

[ashbury]

I'm 35, been a Twins fan since 87...never heard of Walter Johnson until today. Did some research.....holy crap!

 

Thanks for the education guys

Don't bother to research Sandy Cummings. Unless you also look up Candy Koufax.

[ashbury]

Would Walter Johnson ever have had cause to even set foot in Minnesota?

A contract to play for a team would probably have done the trick.

 

I didn't know this, but he was born in Kansas. And went to high school in Californy. I think the railroad network could have gotten him to Minnesota too, same as DC.

[Craig Arko]

 

A contract to play for a team would probably have done the trick.

 

I didn't know this, but he was born in Kansas. And went to high school in Californy. I think the railroad network could have gotten him to Minnesota too, same as DC.

Well, there you go. Put up a bronze statue right next to Mary Tyler-Moore's.

[stringer bell]

Just for point of reference:  How many A's are from Philadelphia or KC? How many Orioles are from St. Louis (Browns)? How many Braves are from Milwaukee?

 

I don't know the answers, but these franchises existed in different cities and haven't emphasized their roots any more than the Twins have IMHO.

[DaveW]

 

Am I going to be that guy who says that he would put Mauer instead of Oliva . . .

I would have too, but as of now its super close, nearly identical OPS+, batting titles, all star games and several other stats, I think Mauer ends up the clear #4 within the next couple years, and even could surpass Puckett if he gets a ring.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

I guess I look at it as I am still me if I move from South Dakota to Canada to Virginia to California, and my family is still my family. Walter Johnson is part of this franchise, very definitely, and I didn't see him play either, and was even born 9 years after he was dead. I just figured Twins' fans were more than regular/average fans. I like to think of them as astute, and that is why it surprises me that 70 of the 124 years of franchise history is not embraced. To me, it is like ignoring ones family and roots. 

 

But would your granddaughter identify herself as from South Dakota, or from California?

[RaymondLuxuryYacht]

If an opportunity arises to be condescending towards the "average fan" some will feel the need to jump on it every time.

[ALessKosherScott]

My vote was Johnson, Puckett, Killebrew and Johan Santana, whom I thought they did a bigger disservice to than Johnson by leaving him off the ballot completely.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

Just for point of reference:  How many A's are from Philadelphia or KC? How many Orioles are from St. Louis (Browns)? How many Braves are from Milwaukee?

 

I don't know the answers, but these franchises existed in different cities and haven't emphasized their roots any more than the Twins have IMHO.

 

Three A's (Foxx, SImmons, Mack). Two Braves (Aaron and Spahn). No Orioles. One Brooklyn Dodger (Snider). One Giant (Willie Mays). Granted, in Baltimore's case there was only one or two Browns worth even nominating, Albeit, the Giants did vote Posey on over Christy Mathewson.

[Shane Wahl]

Also, I actually dislike everything like this from the HOF to this kind of all-time great stuff. I can't get into it in any sport anymore.

[Rosterman]

Carew was one of those guys that could've shown up with another franchise (like Nolan Ryan, and even Pete Rose). Voting was all over the place. How did Mike Trout became one of the four (then I guess the Twins should've ahd Joe Mauer). And the oldest team in baseball basically had nothing but modern-era guys. But, yes, quite a few Hall of Famers weren't considered franchise players. I would think being in the Hall of Fame would pretty much nail it for the majority of franchise players...if they played msot of their time with the team in question (Dave Winfield, Padres or Yankees).

[Longdistancetwins]

Actually, I rather enjoyed the whole exercise—I even passed on the ballot to folks who I knew were great fans of other teams so I could hear their opinion on their top four Phillies, Tigers, Indians, etc.  Felt I had to vote for Walter Johnson since they gave me that option.  Killebrew and Puckett were easy.  Number 4 was the harder choice, and I won’t argue with anyone who voted Carew, Oliva, or Mauer.  I’d choose Mauer over Carew for overall impact, but the way his career seems to be fading gives some hesitation.

[Thrylos]

 

A fan vote that nailed it? Wow.

I'd love for the team to embrace the Senator history, this was a charter member of the AL. It seems any time there is any kind of push to do so, the Rangers stand up and object. Legally I think the Rangers have their rights, just like the new Cleveland Browns were granted the rights to the old Browns, not the Ravens.

But if I ever heard a someone try to claim Harmon Killebrewplayed for the Rangers franchise, we're going to have a problem.

 

 

The Rangers do not have the rights.  Neither do the Nationals.  It was crystal clear and on the record that Griffith took the rights with him to MN.

 

It is a choice of the Polahd regime to reduce the Twins to a local upper midwest team...

[Thrylos]

 

The senators are not the twins! The twins haven't retired Walter Johnsons number because he wa never a Twin.

 

The Twins haven't retired Walter Johnson's number because he did not have one

 

They did not wear numbers back then.

[Thrylos]

 

If it had been a vote for the Senators/Twins franchise four, Johnson should have made it. Lack of clarity in the vote definition.

 

They are the same franchise

 

(Add KC Blues that moved to DC to be complete, but that is before the AL/MLB days...)

[Thrylos]

 

Just for point of reference:  How many A's are from Philadelphia or KC? How many Orioles are from St. Louis (Browns)? How many Braves are from Milwaukee?

 

I don't know the answers, but these franchises existed in different cities and haven't emphasized their roots any more than the Twins have IMHO.

 

All of the above teams were their predecessors throw back uniforms, unlike the Twins that chose to wear that of a local minor league team that was affiliated with other franchises...

[big dog]

 

They are the same franchise

 

(Add KC Blues that moved to DC to be complete, but that is before the AL/MLB days...)

Oh, I know, but I wonder if giving the split name would have encouraged more people to think about Johnson or other Senators by putting the association there directly.  I doubt it, though.  I bet a lot of people have heard of Walter Johnson but have no idea who employed him.

 

[DocBauer]

I'm 35, been a Twins fan since 87...never heard of Walter Johnson until today. Did some research.....holy crap!

 

Thanks for the education guys

With all due and exalted respect to Thyrlos and his extensive experience and education, I think this speaks volumes.

 

While I really don't wish to re-tread old ground at this point, been a Twins fan since listening to and learning the game at age 5 from my dad, Herb Carneal and an old transistor radio. In a few months I will hit 50. But in all that time, I only knew there were 2 or 3 different Senators Twins, and the Twins were a result of one of them. Period. Unless I am missing something, in all of "modern day" sports, the only team who has moved and been a new individual has been the Baltimore Ravens.

 

Perhaps a horrific error of oversight or pretense by the NFL, this bastardized team became their own individual. Until just recently, despite all my years as a devoted and deeply involved Twins fan, I was unaware of any or direct ties to the Senators franchise. Was this accidental or deliberate by MLB and/or the CG family?

Should we care? Or should we just embrace the "Twins" as we know them for the past 50 years? Considering the platform and tradition of sports, and baseball in particular, I'm thinking we should perhaps learn to care about something we didn't even know we should care about.

 

Should this be something we should explore more, push on the Pohlad's as true fans, and celebrate.?

[mplsman]

 

The senators are not the twins! The twins haven't retired Walter Johnsons number because he wa never a Twin. If they haven't put him in the Twins HOF or retired his number, why on earth would you want/expect fans to vote him in, or get upset when he wasn't voted in? Also you dont hear Twins fans talking about their 3 World Series titles(1 washington) you hear them talking about their two World Series titles (87 and 91)

Walter Johnson was a Washington Senator, not a Minnesota twin!

The Twins haven't retired Walter Johnson's number because he never wore a number as a player

[HitInAPinch]

Fun fact on Walter Johnson: 

As hard as he is reported to have thrown [91mph in his day was unheard of], did you know he had a sidearm delivery? 

[#3HK]

 

Just for point of reference:  How many A's are from Philadelphia or KC? How many Orioles are from St. Louis (Browns)? How many Braves are from Milwaukee?

 

I don't know the answers, but these franchises existed in different cities and haven't emphasized their roots any more than the Twins have IMHO.

Actually, the Braves and Athletics do a great job with honoring their previous cities. I've been to both stadiums-the Braves have a statue of Warren Spahn in front of the stadium and he never pitched one game for the Braves in Atlanta. The A's honor their past with photos, trophies, memorabilia from their days in PHL and KC. When CG moved the Senators to Minnesota he kept the same Senator team colors and uniform designs. The only difference being the name on the front of the jersey and the logo on the cap. CG changed the name because the Senators name would not have been a good fit and he wanted the hometown populace to embrace the team as their own. A good move and it served him well. Unfortunately, CG and Carol Pohlad never made the effort to embrace the franchise's past and it is, after all, a continuously operated franchise. Should the 84 homeruns and 231 RBI's Harmon hit in Washington not count as a Twin? Or Jim Kaat's wins and losses as a pitcher? CP cared much less about the history than CG. Calvin was trying to build a fan base to survive and CP was willing to line his pockets for $200M in 2002 when the other members of the piranha club were willing to buy him out to contract the Twins and Expos. Yes, the Twins won the franchises 2nd and 3rd titles under his ownership but he could have cared less if the franchise survived or not. Time will tell if JP will make the effort to honor the franchise's past.