Rotation

[TheLeviathan]

A lot can change in several weeks, but the Jays might be a team desperate enough for competent pitching to make a trade.  

 

It's also time to start badgering the Giants about Susac.  Multiple times a day if need be until you find a fit.

[Gernzy]

Pretty sure Mollie said no to a 6-man rotation.

 

Man who would have thought we'd be talking about the fact that we have too many solid starters a few years ago?

[dougkoebernick]

I'm going to guess that May goes to the bullpen so they can keep a lefty in the rotation and because May is about halfway to the number of innings he has typically pitched each of the last four or five years. One would think that Pelfrey would be wanted by some National League teams but at this point I think most teams know the Twins would be trying to unload a guy and wouldn't give their best offer. 

 

With all that said - HOLY COW! WHAT A CHANGE FROM PAST YEARS WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE ROTATION.  

 

GO TWINS!!!!!!!!!

[Mike Sixel]

Solid is a good word to use......

 

Tough call on what to do here. You'd have to consider dealing one of these guys for a catching prospect that can be here next year at the latest.....that would be my preference.

 

If willihammer is correct, and they trade a starting pitcher for a RP, well, good luck to a team that unwise.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

A trade would be a good solution - the Twins have needs - a middle of the order bat that can be a regular DH, or a catcher, or a better SS, or some bullpen help....

 

There could be a match that would help both teams.

 

I think all other things being equal the Twins should look to trade the guy with the most value. That might be Trevor May due to his age or Milone due to his lefty-ness and longer track record. I would hate to lose May, though, so my vote would be Tommy Milone (assuming the return is a needed upgrade with as much team control as the Twins have for Milone).

 

I suppose the Twins don't have to make a trade - May or Milone can be optioned, Pelfrey could move to the pen. The return in any trade has to be more than a short term patch to be worth it.

 

The Twins Rotation depth has proven to be very useful so far - why give up that depth now?

[jorgenswest]

If the Twins want someone who can help now, they are going to have to trade top prospects. Offering Pelfrey or Milone isn't going to work. Look to the Milone for Fuld trade as an example of what they might be able to get in terms of help now.

 

I think they need to trade Pelfrey for the best the market will offer. He is not under team control for next year. He would not be a good extension candidate. I hope the Twins don't perceive his value so high that they don't get a return. They made that mistake with Suzuki last year.

[Vance_Christianson]

The only Starting Pitcher the Twins should look at trading is Michael Pelfrey! We need to be looking at teams that are trying to boost their #4 and #5 Starting Pitchers.

List of some Teams to possibly target:

Cubs 

Blue Jays 

Dodgers 

Giants 

Current Holes on Twins:

Catcher

Shortstop

DH

[howieramone2]

 

Me, I'd wait to make a decision until Santana was both eligible to come back and had shown some success in rehab.

 

If both happen, and all current starters are both healthy and pitching well, I'd move Pelfrey to the pen and hope a shut down late inning reliever emerges.  

 

My guess is, though, we'll start hearing about mysterious injury concerns regarding Hughes before any of this becomes an issue.  

 Could be. It's certainly working for Pinto in Rochester.

[DaveW]

IMO The guy they should be dangling on the trade front should be Gibson, don't get me wrong I like Gibson a lot, but I think he could be the one who could actually fetch us a really good prospect or piece where we need help (Catcher or SS)

 

I don't think Nolasco is going to be back anytime soon.

 

I guess I wouldn't be opposed to putting May in the pen, especially if he is actually on an "innings limit", I would prefer Pelfrey in the pen, but again he has pitched way to well (smoke and mirrors or not) to be put in the pen.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I would trade Milone.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

IMO The guy they should be dangling on the trade front should be Gibson, don't get me wrong I like Gibson a lot, but I think he could be the one who could actually fetch us a really good prospect or piece where we need help (Catcher or SS)

 

I don't think Nolasco is going to be back anytime soon.

 

I guess I wouldn't be opposed to putting May in the pen, especially if he is actually on an "innings limit", I would prefer Pelfrey in the pen, but again he has pitched way to well (smoke and mirrors or not) to be put in the pen.

 

I think he's going to be on the block at some point.  Might not be a bad option either.

[DaveW]

 

I would trade Milone.

I don't think he has any real value, look at who we got him for last year? I would rather hold onto Milone and keep him around as a low cost back end rotation guy (instead of going out and spending FA money on the Correias, Ponsons, Marquis, Nolascos of the world)

[Captain Hindsight]

 

 

 

 

Man who would have thought we'd be talking about the fact that we have too many solid starters a few years ago?

 

 

Even crazier is, who would have thought that this conversation would include Pelfrey.

[tobi0040]

The argument against a 6 man rotation is that you take starts away from your top guys and give them to your 6th best starter.  Instead of 33 starts a year your guys get 27. 

 

But in this case, it is hard to argue that we have much difference between 1-6  the way that Milone and  Pelfrey are pitching, versus Gibson, May, Hughes, etc. If it was 2006 and you lose multiple starts from Johan Santana, that is another story.

 

I say go with a 6 man until someone needs to be sent down, a good trade comes along, or someone gets hurt. In the interim it will limit wear and tear as well.

 

If we are going to trade someone, the last two I would trade are May and Gibson. Both could be really good and controlled through their prime.  Those guys are really valuable. Look at the Rays.  That is their model and it has worked for some time.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Maybe you go to a 6 man rotation until someone pitches their way out of it?

I generally dislike the idea that someone has to pitch/play themselves out of a spot.  I think good teams avoid letting players do that.

 

Even if all 6 are doing OK overall, if there's not one that stands out as least consistent/sustainable, I am sure one of them could help bolster our pen in some fashion.

[puckstopper1]

One other item to that will need to be addressed is who gets booted off the 40 man when Santana's suspension ends?

[Danchat]

 

One other item to that will need to be addressed is who gets booted off the 40 man when Santana's suspension ends?

Doug Bernier.

[drjim]

 

Doug Bernier.

 

Schafer, Duensing, etc.

 

This is the most minor of concerns at this point.

[DaveW]

 

One other item to that will need to be addressed is who gets booted off the 40 man when Santana's suspension ends?

Bernier

Duensing

Schafer

 

Are all options.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The argument against a 6 man rotation is that you take starts away from your top guys and give them to your 6th best starter.  Instead of 33 starts a year your guys get 27. 

 

But in this case, it is hard to argue that we have much difference between 1-6  the way that Milone and  Pelfrey are pitching, versus Gibson, May, Hughes, etc. If it was 2006 and you lose multiple starts from Johan Santana, that is another story.

 

I say go with a 6 man until someone needs to be sent down, a good trade comes along, or someone gets hurt. In the interim it will limit wear and tear as well.

True, the Twins 6 is more evenly matched, but that doesn't mean going with 6 starters doesn't have a cost for us.

 

6 starters probably means your roster is short either a reliever or a bench player.  And our bullpen could probably use the reinforcement of a quality arm (presumably one of the 6 starters, or maybe the return from trading one of the 6 starters).

 

That almost certainly outweighs any reduced "wear and tear".  (General "wear and tear" is also a less critical concern across a group of average-ish starters, as compared to a top-heavy rotation.)

 

[tobi0040]

 

True, the Twins 6 is more evenly matched, but that doesn't mean going with 6 starters doesn't have a cost for us.

 

6 starters probably means your roster is short either a reliever or a bench player.  And our bullpen could probably use the reinforcement of a quality arm (presumably one of the 6 starters, or maybe the return from trading one of the 6 starters).

 

That almost certainly outweighs any reduced "wear and tear".  (General "wear and tear" is also a less critical concern across a group of average-ish starters, as compared to a top-heavy rotation.)

 

I think that is a valid point.  But if you factor in what that extra bench spot is likely used for, a utility infielder, to the utility infielder....it isn't a huge concern to me.

 

This team has never had a real bench bat that can come up with two guys in and down 3 runs in the 9th and hit the ball over the fence.  And right now the best bench bat we have is probably Nunez, who doubles as a utility guy anyway.

 

Another potential way around that would be allowing each starter to pitch a little deeper given the extra day of rest.  Now there goes the wear and tear advantage...but that could be a solution.

 

 

 

[Zachary]

I'm not sure how many of you guys believe in good and bad "juju" but I don't think taking our top producing pitcher out of the rotation would be a very good for the team's "juju." 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I think that is a valid point.  But if you factor in what that extra bench spot is likely used for, a utility infielder, to the utility infielder....it isn't a huge concern to me.

 

This team has never had a real bench bat that can come up with two guys in and down 3 runs in the 9th and hit the ball over the fence.  And right now the best bench bat we have is probably Nunez, who doubles as a utility guy anyway.

 

Another potential way around that would be allowing each starter to pitch a little deeper given the extra day of rest.  Now there goes the wear and tear advantage...but that could be a solution.

Yeah, I am not so concerned about the bench bat either.  But even if you are OK with a short bench, that doesn't mean our bullpen line-up is optimal.

 

If we've got 6 roughly equally performing starters, but one of them could potentially be bullpen weapon, I think you have to make that switch, given our current pen.

 

I doubt they would allow 6 starters to pitch notably deeper, and I am not sure it would be a good idea anyway -- it would be uncharted territory for most of those guys.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm not sure how many of you guys believe in good and bad "juju" but I don't think taking our top producing pitcher out of the rotation would be a very good for the team's "juju." 

If there is a top producing pitcher, yeah, you probably don't move him.

 

But if there are 6 roughly equally producing guys, I don't have a problem with moving one of them if he can help the team elsewhere.

 

I still think one of the current 5 will distinguish himself over the next few weeks, if not purely by performance then by inconsistency.

[Otto von Ballpark]

For the record, Hughes has been a bullpen weapon before... not saying it would be permanent, but that's a direction you could go, as he has an argument for worst performing current starter anyway.

[DaveW]

 

For the record, Hughes has been a bullpen weapon before... not saying it would be permanent, but that's a direction you could go, as he has an argument for worst performing current starter anyway.

Nah, Hughes isn't going to go anywhere. Hughes just needs to keep the ball in the park.

[tobi0040]

 

Yeah, I am not so concerned about the bench bat either.  But even if you are OK with a short bench, that doesn't mean our bullpen line-up is optimal.

 

If we've got 6 roughly equally performing starters, but one of them could potentially be bullpen weapon, I think you have to make that switch, given our current pen.

 

I doubt they would allow 6 starters to pitch notably deeper, and I am not sure it would be a good idea anyway -- it would be uncharted territory for most of those guys.

 

Yeah.  The only candidate for me to go to the pen is Pelfrey.  I just am not sure he would be any better than someone like Achter.  If you throw out one bad appearances, Oliveros has been a 2.60 ERA guy with 11+ K per 9.    Or in a few months, Reed, Burdi, Jay, or Jones.

 

The other thing about moving Pelfrey to the pen is that he demands a trade when you do.  Boras is his agent and he is pitching for a contract as a starter.  And he has pitched well.  I am guessing we would accomidate that versus say tough S$%# 

 

[tobi0040]

 

Doesn't all of this depend on whether you can trade Nolasco for anything more than a bag of balls and whether Pelfry can net you a decent prospect or DH bat? Isn't this also just a this year issue? If you can't makle the trades, Milone goes back to AAA to stay as the "replacement starter for injuries" and Nolasco goes into the bullpen until you can move him. Milone replaces Pelfry if he falters and becomes a bullpen guy or next year when Pelfry moves on to greener pastures.  There will be at least one team out there that will give Pelfry a 2-3 year deal if he finishes with a better than .500 record and an ERA under 4. Let's just hope it isn't the Twins. 

 

I wish as a general rule, any suggestion of trading Nolasco or Mauer would just stop. They are both immovable objects.

 

 

 

[Kwak]

Trade Nolasco?--he's injured.  Even if he returns no one would touch a "damaged pitcher" without the Twins paying most of his salary.  Trade Pelfrey or Milone?  The rest of BB knows this is a forced "dump"--I doubt if a Drew Butera-type Catcher could be had for either of those two.  Rest assured, unless those two are extended for at least two years--each will walk away after this season.

[dxpavelka]

Someone will either falter or get hurt.  Very unlikely that the Twins do or will have too much starting pitching.