Boston Globe article on Hunter and character

[gunnarthor]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/06/06/baseball-executives-looking-for-some-real-characters/SLNi37gvg0TPGKbau9iQLP/story.html?s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Atwitter

 

Interesting piece on the importance of a guy like Hunter on a team from the Boston newspaper.  "what did Royals general manager Dayton Moore do when Ibanez retired after last season? He put a full-court press on Torii Hunter, who eventually signed with the Twins, another team looking for a high-character guy.

 

Hunter, according to a group of scouts, GMs, coaches, players, and baseball writers we asked, is the embodiment of a winning player and a leader. He no doubt has made a huge difference for the transformed Twins. The Royals, Mariners, Orioles, and Rangers all competed for Hunter’s services."

 

The article also noted that bad players can hurt a clubhouse - 

 

"The executives we asked believe one player can make a huge impact, but on the other side one player can be destructive. Names such as Milton Bradley and Carl Everett were mentioned. The Dodgers, for instance, seem better off without Matt Kemp and Hanley Ramirez."

 

Character guys are "“Hard to find,” said one American League GM. “We all search for that guy. When you get him and it clicks, it’s a beautiful thing.”

[kellyvance]

Which is why one of Paul Molitor's first acts was to call Torii.

[Linus]

Don't want to jack the thread but this must especially sting for the Red Sox because they spent a king's ransom on Ramirez and Sandoval.  Both look like epic anchor like contracts that they just can't do anything about.  HRam doesn't even look like he cares....

 

Contrast that to a one year deal for $10 million on a guy that has really made a positive difference for the Twins.

[JB_Iowa]

Thanks for the link.

 

Interesting to me that when Hunter talks about it, it isn't just "high character" which would imply to me being a good teammate, owning up to mistakes, being a leader, getting tough if necessary, etc. but he also implies that part of it is BEING A CHARACTER -- "I always made people laugh or try to make them happy and lift up their spirits. It’s just you. You are who you are.”  “I appreciated Kirby Puckett, the way he had so much fun,” said Hunter. “He had a smile on his face every day.

 

And we see a smile on Torii's face every day.  Hope it continues to stave off losing streaks.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

I can't go find it now, but someone (Gleeman maybe) wrote an article in a recent season on how Hunter's image as a positive character presence has persisted despite his having had public disputes with teammates and having made a number of controversial-at-least public statements over the years. Through all of this he never stopped being accessible and gregarious to the media, and the implication was this keeps reporters writing about him in such a positive light, despite some contrary evidence.

 

People can disagree about the propriety of some things Hunter has said and done, and I don't mean to derail this post into an argument over that, but how the media and Hunter's image mutually benefit one another is a valid question and the reason why I don't take articles like this very seriously.

[JB_Iowa]

 

People can disagree about the propriety of some things Hunter has said and done, and I don't mean to derail this post into an argument over that, but how the media and Hunter's image mutually benefit one another is a valid question and the reason why I don't take articles like this very seriously.

 

For me, the "proof is in the pudding" and what I see happening in Minnesota and the comments I read from his teammates are WHY I disregard comments like yours.

 

 

And did it ever occur to you that Gleeman (or whoever wrote the article) was WRONG or only partially right???????

 

I'm sure that the media likes to go to Hunter - he rarely hides from them, he usually keeps a good attitude even when losing -- that is EXACTLY what makes him a good teammate.  It takes a lot of pressure off some of his teammates who don't want to face the press when they or the Twins have had a bad day.

[drjim]

 

For me, the "proof is in the pudding" and what I see happening in Minnesota and the comments I read from his teammates are WHY I disregard comments like yours.

 

I also think the so-called public disputes within the clubhouse are played up by people like Gleeman significantly more than the actual players themselves. That fight with Morneau shook him up so much he rebounded to be a MVP and to call Hunter a critical mentor in the process.

 

The public statements, while interesting to writers and posters, mean approximately zero to his teammates when it comes to relationship within the clubhouse and performance on the field.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The article leads off with the assertion that Raul Ibanez was critical to the 2014 Royals success.  Anybody want to endorse that statement?

[jimmer]

 

The article leads off with the assertion that Raul Ibanez was critical to the 2014 Royals success.  Anybody want to endorse that statement?

Ah, the mystical properties of baseball.

[jimmer]

 

I can't go find it now, but someone (Gleeman maybe) wrote an article in a recent season on how Hunter's image as a positive character presence has persisted despite his having had public disputes with teammates and having made a number of controversial-at-least public statements over the years. Through all of this he never stopped being accessible and gregarious to the media, and the implication was this keeps reporters writing about him in such a positive light, despite some contrary evidence.

 

People can disagree about the propriety of some things Hunter has said and done, and I don't mean to derail this post into an argument over that, but how the media and Hunter's image mutually benefit one another is a valid question and the reason why I don't take articles like this very seriously.

Really does have a lot to do with each person's individual definition of character. Either way, you make an interesting point and one that should at least be considered. And you were able to do it in a polite way.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I also think the so-called public disputes within the clubhouse are played up by people of Gleeman's ilk significantly more than the actual players themselves. That fight with Morneau shook him up so much he rebounded to be a MVP and to call Hunter a critical mentor in the process.

 

The public statements, while interesting to writers and posters, mean approximately zero to his teammates when it comes to relationship within the clubhouse and performance on the field.

In that way, the public disputes are about as meaningful as these public puff pieces.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Really does have a lot to do with each person's individual definition of character.

I think the only ones outside of Hunter's family that can attest to his character are his teammates, and they seem to appreciate him.

 

I just don't how many wins it adds.

[Mike Sixel]

Wait, the Dodgers are better off w/o Kemp, not because Joc Pederson is AWESOME at baseball? It isn't about the TALENT they replaced him with? Not at all? Not even partially as much as the Kemp personality and the fact he isn't close to good at defense at all? Really? It isn't about talent?

 

[nicksaviking]

 

I think the only ones outside of Hunter's family that can attest to his character are his teammates, and they seem to appreciate him.

 

I just don't how many wins it adds.

 

Statistically, it shouldn't add any.  However it does appear that somehow, beyond common reason, sometimes intagible variables such as "leadership" impact the win/loss column as much, maybe more, than the statistics.  Personally, I like reasoned and explainable data and really want scientific explanaitions, however if we're going to get one from instances like this, it does appear we may have to dig into the psychological realm more so than the statistical one.

 

 

[drjim]

 

In that way, the public disputes are about as meaningful as these public puff pieces.

 

Well put. But I also think most media output is pretty meaningless.

[gunnarthor]

 

I can't go find it now, but someone (Gleeman maybe) wrote an article in a recent season on how Hunter's image as a positive character presence has persisted despite his having had public disputes with teammates and having made a number of controversial-at-least public statements over the years. Through all of this he never stopped being accessible and gregarious to the media, and the implication was this keeps reporters writing about him in such a positive light, despite some contrary evidence.

 

People can disagree about the propriety of some things Hunter has said and done, and I don't mean to derail this post into an argument over that, but how the media and Hunter's image mutually benefit one another is a valid question and the reason why I don't take articles like this very seriously.

Sounds like a Gleeman thing.  But it's a pretty big conspiracy theory if you actually think about it.

 

The theory is that Hunter's really just a big old d-bag who has tricked the media into pushing some incorrect image of him because he's a good quote and easily accessible.

 

The problem is that for this to be true, he would have had to fool the press in MN, LA and Detroit, who all rave about him, and (to a lesser extent) the national media who covers baseball.  But maybe he's that great a quote.  But that would still require his teammates, who know he's a d-bag and getting all this undeserved great press, to not comment on him.  And that doesn't happen.  Even Jeter always had a whisper campaign made by other players against him.  And even if the press didn't let those voices be heard, it would still require Sciosia, Molitor, Gardy and Leyland to all be in on it.  And, if they were, all of those managers would have lost their club house.  So it's more likely that Hunter is a really well liked and respected person in baseball.  Oh, it would also require the teammates, who know who Hunter really is, to lie and accept blame for some of the things that Gleeman is alluding to.

 

And since these Hunter positive mentor stories pop up in the Boston Globe and the USA today there's probably something to it.

 

I said before the season that there are some people that don't like Hunter simply b/c he's an outspoken black man and I think a lot of the backlash against him is racially motivated to some degree.  

[jimmer]

 

I think the only ones outside of Hunter's family that can attest to his character are his teammates, and they seem to appreciate him.

 

I just don't how many wins it adds.

Again, it depends on your definition of character.  Some might think his very public stance on certain things puts his character a bit in question, depending on where you stand on the issues. Some may think it's just a person's excuse to attack him for whatever reason which just attacks THAT person's character instead of Hunter's.   Which, apparently, is okay.

 

In any event, he's been pretty darn good with the bat and we are winning.  So that's good.  Good for him and the team.

[kellyvance]

 

I can't go find it now, but someone (Gleeman maybe) wrote an article in a recent season on how Hunter's image as a positive character presence has persisted despite his having had public disputes with teammates and having made a number of controversial-at-least public statements over the years. Through all of this he never stopped being accessible and gregarious to the media, and the implication was this keeps reporters writing about him in such a positive light, despite some contrary evidence.

 

People can disagree about the propriety of some things Hunter has said and done, and I don't mean to derail this post into an argument over that, but how the media and Hunter's image mutually benefit one another is a valid question and the reason why I don't take articles like 

What a person chooses to remember about a player says more about the critic than the player.

 

Torii is a man with an opinion. Get over that.

 

This guy is the real deal, and the fact that he doesn't milquetoast pander or be politically correct is one reason why he is an undisputed leader. There is a reason so many teams wanted him. He is an authentic person, which is refreshing in this day and age

[Otto von Ballpark]

The article also makes this statement:

 

The Astros are having a terrific season, but they lack that guy. We’ll see whether that comes back to hurt them later.

Of course, the young Astros are one of the biggest surprises in baseball, and no one will be shocked if they fade later this year -- but this writer already has his narrative in place!

 

Interesting that he doesn't mention any current Cardinals -- is St. Louis worried?

[Mike Sixel]

 

 

 I believe in culture and leadership and character, I do. I believe they have an effect on outcomes, absolutely..........But to say that Kemp leaving and replacing him with a guy that looks like ROY material, and pure baseball awesomeness is not as important as losing his Kemp's personality? You can make points about culture and leadership all you want, but you can't say it is Kemp leaving, and ignore who they replaced him with, that is the explanation.....which is the implication.

[kellyvance]

 

 

I just laugh at those who were against Torii's signing, and want him gone. Obviously, that sentiment has little to do with baseball or the results on the field. The Twins may not be above .500 if Torii wasn't wearing a Twins jersey.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The article also makes this statement:

Of course, the young Astros are one of the biggest surprises in baseball, and no one will be shocked if they fade later this year -- but this writer already has his narrative in place!

 

Interesting that he doesn't mention any current Cardinals -- is St. Louis worried?

 

Right, it won't be talent or anything else, it will be all about leadership and veteranieness.....

[Mike Sixel]

 

Since when does having a conservative viewpoint mean a person lacks character?  It only means that to people who wouldn't recognize true character if it came and kicked then in the rear

 

Uh, that's not what he said at all.....He said "it depends on what you mean by character"......no place did he say "conservatives are bad/wrong/evil". No place did he say that.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I just laugh at those who were against Torii's signing, and want him gone. Obviously, that sentiment has little to do with baseball or the results on the field. The Twins may not be above .500 if Torii wasn't wearing a Twins jersey.

 

You laugh at people that were wrong in judging a baseball signing?

[jimmer]

 

You laugh at people that were wrong in judging a baseball signing?

Might be the only guy who has a perfect record in judging whether or not a signing was good :-)

 

I'm glad Torii is doing well and as long as he keeps hitting he's bringing real value to the team.

[jimbo92107]

Terry Ryan brought Torii Hunter here for two reasons: 1) To play solid RF and produce some RBI, and 2) To mentor guys like Aaron Hicks, Eddie Rosario, Danny Santana, Kennys Vargas, and later, Sano and Buxton.

 

Hunter has delivered more than expected on all counts. He has single-handedly brought a great atmosphere to this team, helping execute Paul Molitor's pressure baseball philosophy. He's showing Hicks and Rosario what mentality will make their baseball careers successful and enjoyable.

 

Assuming Byron Buxton comes up sometime during the second half, Hunter will become the fourth outfielder, continuing to mentor the young outfielders, contributing wherever he can on the field and at the plate. Hunter's contract with the Twins is working out even better than hoped.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think anyone is still arguing the Hunter signing was a bad idea, are they? I think a couple of you are arguing against nobody at this point.

 

he's been much better than I thought, I was wrong for sure.

[DaveW]

I just laugh at those who were against Torii's signing, and want him gone. Obviously, that sentiment has little to do with baseball or the results on the field. The Twins may not be above .500 if Torii wasn't wearing a Twins jersey.

I don't think anyone wants him gone at this point, many were against the signing at the time but I believe everyone is happy with the results thus far.

 

I think the OP article is just lazy old journalism at its finest. I don't think Hunter has really made every player better (look at the stats) and "leadership/personality" is over rated. (Unless you someone think his personality is the reason why Gibson and Pelfrey and May are pitching lights out recently)

 

I wish they would have done the article about how torii has actually helped out the team: as someone who is hitting the ball very well.

[jimmer]

 

I don't think anyone is still arguing the Hunter signing was a bad idea, are they? I think a couple of you are arguing against nobody at this point.

 

he's been much better than I thought, I was wrong for sure.

When the signing happened I was against it.  I wasn't worried so much about his offense as his defense. His defense has been bad, but his offense has been good and the team is doing well and he's certainly a big part of it.

 

He's already been worth the money and it doesn't seem like he's blocked anyone worth having up. And he's made the clubhouse fun, which is a good thing for his teammates.

[DaveW]

Gay people have not been discriminated against in America. Most are well educated and more wealthy than many Americans. The whole discrimination narrative is bogus.

I would really really really really suggest you stick to the topic at hand.

 

If not... As Walter so eloquently puts it "you are about to enter a world of pain" from a lot of other posters.