Boston Globe article on Hunter and character

[jimmer]

 

Anyway, we've gone way too far off topic and this topic has been over-played.

 

Let's stick to his on-field/clubhouse positive contributions.

[USAFChief]

Back on topic...in my experience, every group dynamic I've been involved in has benefited, or suffered from the formal and informal leadership it received. I can't think of a single reason why baseball would be different.

 

It is not a recipe for lack of talent, but the idea that good leadership can't extract more from the available talent seems unlikely to me.

[DaveW]

I disagree with most of Hunters remarks just as much as most people , but can we PLEASE stop hijacking every Hunter thread to debate social issues? Save it for your aunt/uncles Facebook posts. This is a baseball board for rocketpigs sake, one or two posts is fine, but we don't need this crap going on for pages on end.

[jimmer]

 

I disagree with some of Hunters remarks just as much as most people , but can we PLEASE stop hijacking every Hunter thread to debate social issues? Save it for your aunt/uncles Facebook posts.

In fairness, this article was about Hunter's 'character' was it not?  But yeah, it needs to stop when it goes past him to just a social issues in general.  There are other forums for that discussion.

[Dman]

First let me say that I thought signing Hunter for 10M was a huge overpay for what he could bring to the twins this year.  I figured his bat would be fine but could regress, his defense would be sub par and that his club house leadership would be fine but not worth the investment.  My assumptions so far appear to be wrong.  He has been a true difference maker on this team.

 

While confidence and having fun can be important to success the Talent has to be there to make the plays.  It just isn't really possible to quantify the value mentor\club house leader has on a player or team and or how long that influence lasts.  For me personally I am not a big believer in the good club house theory as there is no real lasting causation.  If Dance parties or growing beards were the incentive that won game's then everyone would be doing that. 

 

With that said I like what Hunter is doing and I like the happy club house and players that look like they are having fun.  Makes the game more enjoyable for me as well.  Hunter made me eat crow and I am happy to continue eating it if it means the Twins are successful this year.

[USAFChief]

I'm going to step in as a mod and repeat Dave's request. Get back on topic. Now.

[DaveW]

Back on topic...in my experience, every group dynamic I've been involved in has benefited, or suffered from the formal and informal leadership it received. I can't think of a single reason why baseball would be different.

 

It is not a recipe for lack of talent, but the idea that good leadership can't extract more from the available talent seems unlikely to me.

I think it helps some, but I think winning helps more personally.

[DaveW]

I'm going to step in as a mod and repeat Dave's request. Get back on topic. Now.

And get off his porch!

[JB_Iowa]

I still think it comes down to HAVING CHARACTER and BEING A CHARACTER -- and I think Torii fits both of those.

 

Not "Being a Character" in a buffoonish way but in trying to keep his teammates laughing and on an even keel.  He has enough time in the league that he knows that losses aren't the end of the world (even good teams lose about 35%-40% of the time).  He also knows that wins aren't guaranteed and so you celebrate each and every one.

 

As for having character, all I can judge by are the comments from Mike Trout and Aaron Hicks and Trevor Plouffe and others about his mentoring.  And about how that rubs off on others.  Like letting Danny Santana know that being sent down isn't the end of the world (apparently Dozier was really good about that).  You see teammates really encouraging one another and that they seem to feed off each other's character.  I think they had that before Torii but I think he has contributed too (and as Nick Carfardo said, its important that older veterans aren't so protective of their own position that they fail to mentor).

 

For a team that has endured four miserable years, adding someone like Hunter who could keep the atmosphere lighthearted was the right ingredient in the recipe for a better team.

[bird]

The whole character and leadership question is fascinating, but what makes it so frustrating to tackle in a thread with any value being dispersed by the discussion is that it's nebulous and almost immeasurable. My own views on the subject are schizophrenic for sure.

 

I sense that the media opinions about the leadership exerted by an individual can be overblown slightly by the likeability and accessibility bias. That's why I discount a report unless the reporter talks about the opinions of the player's peers, and even then I want comments from several players about specific actions and words that evidence the trait. 

 

I sense that some TD commenters discount the importance of character and leadership either because they don't have the power to measure it and therefore feel a bit impotent about the subject, or because they have some sort of allergy to players that are sought out and therefore appear frequently in the media. We've had people in our community here that were verbal assassinators of Cuddyer, for example. 

 

I don't know what I think about how much credit to attribute to Hunter. What I do know from my own experiences is that having a healthy culture and atmosphere within an organization is huge. I don't see any signs of change in that regard with the Twins in any other place but in the clubhouse. I have thought the rest of the organization, despite the irksomely (to some) conservative decision-making piece, has had a very healthy culture. I don't care about WAR, and am happy to ignorantly give Paulie, Hunter, Dozier, maybe Perkins, and Allen good grades for their stewardship of what appears to be a great clubhouse environment.

 

My strongest opinion is about bad apples. I would look to weed out the jerks and the knuckleheads fast, despite their talent level. Delmon Young may wind up on a winning team, but I believe the team will have overcome his presence and that his production will have been offset my his dbag quotient. 

[Craig Arko]

I may disagree with a number of Hunter's socio-political positions, but this point of character I definitely give him; he says what he thinks under his own name and takes the heat for it.

 

I can respect that in a person.

[Craig Arko]

Oh, and about leadership in the clubhouse; like the old chestnut about porn: I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

[kellyvance]

I think Torii's leadership will be better tested when they have a losing streak. Bound to happen. You know, every team loses approximately 70 games. That's a lot of long plane trips and time to think about a slump. Torii reminds these guys they are just lucky to be playing a kids game at their ages. In The Show. So the vibe has been that of a young clubhouse with some good energy and chemistry. But what I like best is that it is the oldest among them that is showing them how to be young. 

 

[Squirrel]

 

In fairness, this article was about Hunter's 'character' was it not?  But yeah, it needs to stop when it goes past him to just a social issues in general.  There are other forums for that discussion.

I believe it was his character as a baseball player and teammate … not his personal character outside of that realm. But that was my interpretation.

 

But I think Dave's estimation on this type of journalism in an earlier post pretty much sums it up for me.

 

In the meantime, to everyone … off topic posts have been eliminated and/or edited as best they could. It's a great discussion to have, but not in this forum. If any of you wish to continue your discussion, start a thread in the Sports Bar forum. Please stick to the topic at hand and to baseball. Thanks.

[blairpaul715]

 

First let me say that I thought signing Hunter for 10M was a huge overpay for what he could bring to the twins this year.  I figured his bat would be fine but could regress, his defense would be sub par and that his club house leadership would be fine but not worth the investment.  My assumptions so far appear to be wrong.  He has been a true difference maker on this team.

 

While confidence and having fun can be important to success the Talent has to be there to make the plays.  It just isn't really possible to quantify the value mentor\club house leader has on a player or team and or how long that influence lasts.  For me personally I am not a big believer in the good club house theory as there is no real lasting causation.  If Dance parties or growing beards were the incentive that won game's then everyone would be doing that. 

 

With that said I like what Hunter is doing and I like the happy club house and players that look like they are having fun.  Makes the game more enjoyable for me as well.  Hunter made me eat crow and I am happy to continue eating it if it means the Twins are successful this year.

Yes hard to quantify, but do i think it can last? Not sure, the real test will be after a 4 or 5 game losing streak, how do they respond, or how do they look, do they look defeated or ready to pickup where they lost ground............If the fun in the clubhouse is genuine and their is genuine respect, I DO think it CAN make a difference. IMO

[Dman]

Yes hard to quantify, but do i think it can last? Not sure, the real test will be after a 4 or 5 game losing streak, how do they respond, or how do they look, do they look defeated or ready to pickup where they lost ground............If the fun in the clubhouse is genuine and their is genuine respect, I DO think it CAN make a difference. IMO

My thinking is eventually dance parties get old. Rah rah speeches don't mean as much. The novelty wears off and loses effect. It might make a difference but to who and how much. We just don't know other than quotes from already talented players. Confidence and a steady hand can make a difference but only so much. Still have to make plays.

[blairpaul715]

If someone can make you feel the glass is half full over glass half empty, i think anyone being positive plays better than if they are negative. So again hard to quantify, but it makes a difference, 1 game or 10 games i dont know.

[drjim]

 

Back on topic...in my experience, every group dynamic I've been involved in has benefited, or suffered from the formal and informal leadership it received. I can't think of a single reason why baseball would be different.

It is not a recipe for lack of talent, but the idea that good leadership can't extract more from the available talent seems unlikely to me.

 

Very unlikely to me.

 

I think this is likely to manifest itself on the margins. Really talented teams are going to win a lot and really bad teams are going to lose a lot no matter the character. It is the teams muddled in the middle that can thrive with high character guys and win some extra games on the margins, avoid prolonged slumps. Starting pitching helps too.

[JB_Iowa]

 

My thinking is eventually dance parties get old. Rah rah speeches don't mean as much. The novelty wears off and loses effect. It might make a difference but to who and how much. We just don't know other than quotes from already talented players. Confidence and a steady hand can make a difference but only so much. Still have to make plays.

 

But air horns make it new again.