Ryan Howard

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Except then you're forcing the guy who has possibly been the Twins' best overall player (and no worse than second best) out of position.

That's not a good way to improve a baseball team. You make changes at the positions in the worst shape, not the best positions on the team. Right now, Sano would have more of an impact to help the team win if he was at DH, not third.

Geez, I swear - Plouffe is like Rodney Dangerfield on this site. Frustrating.

[nicksaviking]

Where is this idea that Howard is still a good player coming from? Are some folks really only judging him on his last month? He's either been injured or unproductive each year since 2011, usually both. He's not an upgrade, he's old, expensive, can't hit lefties and takes away the DH spot that is and will be needed for all the OF and corner infielders this team will need to try cycle through.

 

This team is winning and it's fun, but if they are going to actually win the big prize someday, they still have to give the young players plenty of looks to develop those assets. Ryan Howard will not win the Twins a WS.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Where is this idea that Howard is still a good player coming from? Are some folks really only judging him on his last month? He's either been injured or unproductive each year since 2011, usually both. He's not an upgrade, he's old, expensive, can't hit lefties and takes away the DH spot that is and will be needed for all the OF and corner infielders this team will need to try cycle through.

This team is winning and it's fun, but if they are going to actually win the big prize someday, they still have to give the young players plenty of looks to develop those assets. Ryan Howard will not win the Twins a WS.

Amen.

[Monkeypaws]

Yeah, of all the retreads to pursue, Howard seems like one of the worst:

 

•expensive? Oh yes.

•useless in the field? check.

•slow? yep.

•wiffs much? to be sure.

•35+ and in steady decline? Yessiree.

 

Fills a void on the roster? Not so much.

[DaveW]

Yeah, of all the retreads to pursue, Howard seems like one of the worst:

 

•expensive? Oh yes.

•useless in the field? check.

•slow? yep.

•wiffs much? to be sure.

•35+ and in steady decline? Yessiree.

 

Fills a void on the roster? Not so much.

He's not expensive if you offer to pick up only 6 mil of his remaining contract, the Phillies will dump him for next to nothing. 6 mil is a risk you can take, if he fails he fails and you move on. If he is finally healthy and effective again you roll with it. Last time I checked this was a team that had used Escobar in the DH spot. So they could use an upgrade. Defense is irrelevant since he would be a DH.

 

Not concerned about strike outs if the guy can put up 30 HR and an OPS+ of 120 or higher.

 

Again it's low risk, high reward, the twins have plenty of dollars, if he can hit like he capable of he is a steal, if not they can cut him. Much rather spend 6 million on a once was (Howard) then 3-5 million on a never was ((marquis, stauffer, etc)

[Twodogs]

At least if Howard strikes out a lot he wont be hitting into DP's.  It would look nice to see Howards name in the lineup, I mean the guys at ESPN would get all excited about it, but would it help the Twins win?  I don't think so.  Actually it seems as though the Twins are doing an ok job of scoring runs, the real trouble is in the Bullpen.  I would like to see the Twins go after a couple of hard throwing no-name bull pen guys to help bridge the gap from the starters to Perkins.

 

Just my take

 

I mean playoff baseball is usually about limiting the other team from scoring, not so much about out-scoring the other team.  I mean yeah you need to outscore them to win, but in the playoffs usually everyone has good pitching and the team the limits the other team has the best chance of winning.  The chance of Ryan Howard hitting a home run to win the world series is a lot less likely than having two different guys come in during the 7th and 8th innings and shut down the opposition with hard throwing strikes. 

 

So I say scour the non playoff contenders for hard throwing relief pitchers that they wont need and that no one that isn't a fan of those teams really cares about.

[ExpectMorePayLess]

Everyone was down on an old Torii Hunter as well and he has repeated his performance of recent years.  95 RBI from Ryan Howard on a terrible Phillies team is impressive to me.  As has been stated all the time - RBI depend on teammates and his teammates in Philly sucked last year.   I would rather imagine what he can do with the high OBP players the Twins have, because we need power at some point.  Maybe Arcia can duplicate what Ryan brings as a DH.  Maybe Ryan is a late July move if not.

 

As for Tulow - I would love to have him too, but his health would be a stronger worry to me.  I can't give away high prospects for a guy who has not shown a tendency to stay on the field.  Why would that change for us?  Tulow would definitely cost us more than a two year Howard deal.

[Twodogs]

Howard has proven to be able to stay on the field?

[ExpectMorePayLess]

 

Howard has proven to be able to stay on the field?

 

Since 2006 (2015 not included)
Howard has averaged 136 games per year (with injuries)

Tulow has averaged 106 games per year (with injuries)

Mauer has averaged 125 games peryear (with injuries)

 

So yes. Minus a major injury.  Not saying Howard is better than either, but he ain't bad and he does generally stay on the field.  Prince Fielder missed a whole season.  Back better than ever.  People do work back from injuries and especially when they don't have a history of injury.  136 is more reliable than 106.  Just saying

[blairpaul715]

 

So would you give up Hicks for Revere?

Not me!

[BK432]

This topic has gone 4 pages? Unreal. The answer is no. And it's a no muddled in laughter that the Phillies even suggested it.

 

Yes, Ryan Howard was once an all-star caliber player that you would want on your team. He wasn't great in 2011 and then basically had his productive career end on the final play of their elimination from the NLDS that year. He has been awful since, and not just on defense. A guy who can hit .230 and 20+ HR while striking out in more than 1 of 4 ABs in your DH spot IS NOT production that you go out and pay for.

 

Let this be the last we all hear of this

[Minniman]

The DH spot is good for a proven power hitter that can no longer play the field. It is not a good spot for a player who is trying to prove he can hit in the majors, as more times then not the answer is no.

 

I would rather have big slow power hitters swing away and strike out than go with the pitch and hit soft liners just to put the ball into play. The Twins made that mistake with David Ortiz, and it cost them a future Hall of Fame player.

 

Is Ryan Howard the answer at DH? If he can hit .265 and keep his power number up, maybe. That contract is huge, and he has never faced American League pitching.

 

Target Field is designed for no doubt home run hitters. It is not like the Metrodome where a long double could make it over the glass. I would like to see a no doubt slugger at DH for the Twins, but I do not know if that player should be Ryan Howard.

[jimmer]

 

Since 2006 (2015 not included)
Howard has averaged 136 games per year (with injuries)

Tulow has averaged 106 games per year (with injuries)

Mauer has averaged 125 games peryear (with injuries)

 

So yes. Minus a major injury.  Not saying Howard is better than either, but he ain't bad and he does generally stay on the field.  Prince Fielder missed a whole season.  Back better than ever.  People do work back from injuries and especially when they don't have a history of injury.  136 is more reliable than 106.  Just saying

Don't we also have to take position into account?  Mauer's primary position till last year was catcher, catchers don't 162 and really shouldn't have their games played compared to other position players..

[gunnarthor]

 

Don't we also have to take position into account?  Mauer's primary position till last year was catcher, catchers don't 162 and really shouldn't have their games played compared to other position players..

True enough but Mauer hasn't been a fulltime catcher for a long time and hasn't been durable for many years, even for a catcher.  Fortunately, this year he is staying on the field more. 

[jimmer]

 

True enough but Mauer hasn't been a fulltime catcher for a long time and hasn't been durable for many years, even for a catcher.  Fortunately, this year he is staying on the field more. 

 

The poster of the games played stat went back to 2006.  Mauer stopped being primarily a catcher in 2011.  That's a good chunk of change to affect that average games played stat.

 

He played 147 games and had over 600 PAs in 2012 and is looking at playing 150 or so games this year unless Molitor keeps resting him against pitchers he's been doing well against (Sale). And now that I mentioned that, we didn't even talk about how Gardy's lineup management affected his games played stat.

 

And if you get a concussion, like he did the year after he played 147, is that really a reflection on your durability?

 

Anyway, don't want to threadjack and turn this into another Mauer slamming/defending thread.

[Hrbowski]

I can see why they want another power bat if they are still playing like this two months from now, and I think that they should try to add one, and maybe a top end of the rotation starter, but it is still 50 games away.I like Jordan Zimmermann, but they won't trade him, so I would go after Strasburg, Bautista, Buehrle, Kazmir, Encarnacion, or if he is healthy, Justin Morneau.

[Hrbowski]

Oh, Chris Davis would be better than Ryan Howard, too.

[RedBull34]

 

Who on earth is our potentially cheap Howard?  Because it would be awesome to have that guy.

Vargas could do it if he figures it out.  Dude even looks like Howard.

[ExpectMorePayLess]

 

Don't we also have to take position into account?  Mauer's primary position till last year was catcher, catchers don't 162 and really shouldn't have their games played compared to other position players..

 

I agree.  That is a good point.  My argument was more about Tulow and Howard.  The point on Mauer is that he has been our star player for over a decade and only averages 125 games a year.  If you can average 125 and be the face of a franchise,  Howards 136 average should be a welcome addition.  It was not to shoot down Joe.

 

Howard's 95 RBI in his first full season back from injury wasn't a terrible stat line.   If he plays in only 150 games this year he is on pace for 36 HRs and 85 RBI.  Both would probably lead the Twins in those categories.  And consider that we would probably have more men on base than Philly as a whole.  Ryan currently has the same amount of HRs as Hunter, Mauer, and Arcia combined.  A power bat would not be that damning for this season, especially if his contract is lightened as posted.

[nicksaviking]

Oh, Chris Davis would be better than Ryan Howard, too.

Agreed. He can play all four corner spots and the team wouldn't be stuck with a rotting corpse in 2016.

[formerly33]

 

Justin Morneau.

I second that idea.

[JB_Iowa]

 

I second that idea.

 

I don't.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Oh, Chris Davis would be better than Ryan Howard, too.

 

Agreed, let's look at guys that might actually be long-term assets and not short-term patches.  Blocking Vargas or anyone else for a legitimately good player is fine with me.  Howard is not that.

[Twodogs]

Hrbowski, on 25 May 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

    Justin Morneau.

 

 

I second that idea.

 

 

What is up with Morneau? He gets another concussion from diving for a ball?  Dang he must have really racked his brains playing hockey back in the day.

[GP830]

Howabout Stephen Vogt? Catcher with pop, LH bat, and a team that's fading? He's almost 32, but I'd rather him than some of our other options. 

 

I do not however know anything about his defense, which may make him not desirable. 

[nicksaviking]

Howabout Stephen Vogt? Catcher with pop, LH bat, and a team that's fading? He's almost 32, but I'd rather him than some of our other options.

 

I do not however know anything about his defense, which may make him not desirable.

 

I'm liking Steven Voight now, but Billy Beane is probably drooling over him. A 32-year old who few have heard of before who puts up those numbers looks an awful lot like a mirage. He will cost more more now than ever before or ever again. Not a fan of trading for guys at peak price.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

He's not expensive if you offer to pick up only 6 mil of his remaining contract, the Phillies will dump him for next to nothing. 6 mil is a risk you can take, if he fails he fails and you move on.

For the Twins to get Howard for $6m, the Phillies would have to eat somewhere between $48-62m through 2017.

 

That will cost the Twins a lot in return. Way too much just for Ryan Howard.

 

In Howard, the Phillies saddled themselves with the dumbest contract I've ever seen handed to a MLB player. The Twins shouldn't be any part of helping the Phillies out of that contract by taking on some of the burden.

 

I'd put even money on Oswaldo Arcia being just as valuable as Ryan Howard through the end of 2017. Why take on that idiotic contract when Oswaldo is making the minimum? The Twins have so many potential DH-types on the 40 man that it's pure insanity to add a decline phase, expensive DH to the mix in hopes that he'll help you win a few games in 2015.

 

Thankfully, I'm almost certain Ryan feels the same way. I think there's virtually a zero percent chance Ryan makes such a ridiculous move this season.

 

Healthy or not, Howard has a 103 OPS+ over his past 1417 plate appearances. He's 35 years old. He is owed between $53-68m through 2017. Why would anyone take on that kind of risk? Why why why?

[GP830]

I guess at this point, the best question is what to do with the log jam of current "Ryan Howard Types" we already have. ML ready/Near ML ready Power potential, no glove, not a ton of contact, high K rates. I count 3 and potentially a 4th. I agree that spending anything on Howard would be silly, as we already have Arcia, Vargas, and Pinto. Something has to give on some of these guys. I feel like Pinto is the one we'd miss the least in terms of skills. Vargas offers the switch hitting potential but has virtually no defensive value, and Arcia has failed to turn the corner at the highest level, sucks in the field, and has been injured quite a bit. Are any of these three a part of the future at this point?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I guess at this point, the best question is what to do with the log jam of current "Ryan Howard Types" we already have. ML ready/Near ML ready Power potential, no glove, not a ton of contact, high K rates. I count 3 and potentially a 4th. I agree that spending anything on Howard would be silly, as we already have Arcia, Vargas, and Pinto. Something has to give on some of these guys. I feel like Pinto is the one we'd miss the least in terms of skills. Vargas offers the switch hitting potential but has virtually no defensive value, and Arcia has failed to turn the corner at the highest level, sucks in the field, and has been injured quite a bit. Are any of these three a part of the future at this point?

Absolutely. The oldest player you listed is all of 25 years old.

 

It takes time for some players to develop, particularly players who aren't regarded as top prospects (ie. a top 50 prospects on several lists). All you have to do is look at Trevor Plouffe and Brian Dozier to see that in action.

 

Also, it should be noted that Arcia has a career OPS+ of 104 and he's only 24 years old. Why do we suddenly believe he's not a good hitter? IMO, he's basically a lock to be pretty good with the bat. The only question is whether he can field.

[GP830]

 

Absolutely. The oldest player you listed is all of 25 years old.

 

It takes time for some players to develop, particularly players who aren't regarded as top prospects (ie. a top 50 prospects on several lists). All you have to do is look at Trevor Plouffe and Brian Dozier to see that in action.

 

Also, it should be noted that Arcia has a career OPS+ of 104 and he's only 24 years old. Why do we suddenly believe he's not a good hitter? IMO, he's basically a lock to be pretty good with the bat. The only question is whether he can field.

It just seems like he has never put up the numbers that are expected. Not to mention his struggle to stay healthy. I'm an Arcia fan, but do we need him and Vargas? And If we're cognizant of organizational haves and have nots, doesn't he become redundant? Especially since Vargas is a true DH with pop from both sides, and Pinto can play catcher (???). It makes me wonder if A) Arcia is the most expendable of the three, and if our quiver containing Rosario, Kepler, A-B-Dub, and Harrison makes him a less valuable option for us. It's a good bet he'll rake, but other teams may have better use than we do right now.