General politics

[ashbury]

I wonder how this guy would react if a business refused to serve Christians.

He'd love it, as it proves he's under assault for his righteousness, as opposed to his assault upon the sinful.

[TheLeviathan]

I wonder how this guy would react if a business refused to serve Christians.

Didn't you hear?

 

#waronchristmas. Struggle is real.

[Mr. Brooks]

Despicable ruling by the Supreme Court today.

They ruled in favor of Ohio purging their voter rolls, for no other reason than a person skipping an election cycle.

Federal law clearly states that voters can only be removed if they move, commit a felony, become mentally incapacitated, or die. The law seems to be worded clearly to me. I don't understand this ruling.

 

The Republican party cheats to win elections, and the SCOTUS just gave them permission.

[D. Hocking]

I believe the original plaintiff in the case was actually purged when he was serving overseas.  He came back and tried to vote, but could not.  Nice message, you can risk your life for us, but you do not get to vote.

 

These laws tend to affect college students, renters, and people who move around more, all who tend to lean more Democratic, but I am sure that is a coincidence.

 

I still cannot believe they found part of the the Voting Rights Act was unconstitutional, reasoning it was no longer needed for discrimination purposes.  I wonder how much that affected things in 2016.

[gunnarthor]

 

Despicable ruling by the Supreme Court today.
They ruled in favor of Ohio purging their voter rolls, for no other reason than a person skipping an election cycle.
Federal law clearly states that voters can only be removed if they move, commit a felony, become mentally incapacitated, or die. The law seems to be worded clearly to me. I don't understand this ruling.

The Republican party cheats to win elections, and the SCOTUS just gave them permission.

Yeah, this is a big problem for the Dems. We're going to see voter rolls purged in every state soon. That decision was vile.

[Squirrel]

 

Yeah, this is a big problem for the Dems. We're going to see voter rolls purged in every state soon. That decision was vile.

Pretty soon you are just going to see people going to the polls and being outright refused, whether registered or not.

[TheLeviathan]

Blind squirrels find nut:

 

Http://www.yahoo.com/news/sessions-takes-microaggressions-hes-right-090024579.html

[D. Hocking]

Listening to Sessions is almost like hearing Jesus himself speak - it is uncanny.  I also read that the passage he quoted was sometimes used to justify slavery.  Funny that Sessions would be familiar with that.  Also,since we are supposedly not a theocracy, should the AG be using the bible for his argument?  

 

"I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13 to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes," Sessions said. "Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves. Consistent, fair application of law is in itself a good and moral thing and that protects the weak, it protects the lawful. Our policies that can result in short-term separation of families are not unusual or unjustified."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/jeff-sessions-immigration-policy-defense-biblical/index.html?utm_content=2018-06-14T23%3A06%3A05&utm_term=image&utm_source=twCNN&utm_medium=social

 

This mural is one of the first things you see in one of the detention center.  I guess there are other presidential murals as well, but that does not make this less creepy.  The quote is from his "Art of the Deal" book.  I am sure treating these kids like this and probably permanently estranging some of them from their families is not going to come back and bite us down the road.  Besides, according to Sessions, Jesus says its ok (I guess technically Paul).

 

[PseudoSABR]

This whole biblical thing is obviously a play to their base, who probably was pushing back on the policy some.   

[Mr. Brooks]

That's a nice little loophole that Christians gave themselves to justify anything they do.

Very clever.

[gunnarthor]

Sessions in an insult to Christians.

[Squirrel]

Sessions in an insult to Christians.

He’s an insult to all people of faith. And to Atheists, too, for that matter.

[gunnarthor]

 

He’s an insult to all people of faith. And to Atheists, too, for that matter.

You are correct, I was too narrow but the comment was about how Sessions was using Christian faith to do evil things and I wanted to push back a bit on that.

 

Changing subjects ever so slightly. Looks like Kevin McHale is a Trump guy. Really isn't worth learning the politics of sports guys. Most of them probably aren't liberal.

 

https://deadspin.com/celtics-great-kevin-mchale-enjoys-old-feeling-of-being-1827018034

[Mr. Brooks]

Funny how the conservatives react when a restaurant won't serve Sarah Huckabee Sanders. I thought they believed that a business has a right to turn away customers that don't align with their beliefs?

Nope, as always, they have no core beliefs, only when it fits their agenda.

[Badsmerf]

I don't really support this behavior by the restaurant. As much disdain I have for that woman, refusing service is not the right way to go about it. In the other hand, shaming the **** out of someone in public is perfectly justified.

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't really support this behavior by the restaurant. As much disdain I have for that woman, refusing service is not the right way to go about it. In the other hand, shaming the **** out of someone in public is perfectly justified.

No, I don't support it all either. It's equally as wrong as it is when someone is denied service for being gay.

I do like that they've now made it crystal clear that they only truly ever supported hatred of gays, and not some absurd religious freedom.

[Mike Sixel]

No, I don't support it all either. It's equally as wrong as it is when someone is denied service for being gay.

I do like that they've now made it crystal clear that they only truly ever supported hatred of gays, and not some absurd religious freedom.

It's not exactly the same. Huckabee has made a choice, which is different than being born a certain way. There are lines.....i don't think people should have to serve someone wearing a shirt that says kill all Jews, for example. Now, has Huckabee crossed that line? Probably not, but there is a line.

[Squirrel]

 

It's not exactly the same. Huckabee has made a choice, which is different than being born a certain way. There are lines.....i don't think people should have to serve someone wearing a shirt that says kill all Jews, for example. Now, has Huckabee crossed that line? Probably not, but there is a line.

Yeah ... I agree. However, that line is going to get more and more blurred and it started the minute it became okay for someone not to make a gay couple a cake because it went against their religion. While I get it, this is different, this is what is going to start happening more frequently ... from both sides. And honestly, I'm not so sure it's all that different. Wasn't this the owner/manager of the restaurant? Does he not have that same right to refuse service to a despicable human being on the grounds of religion? Personally, the religion I grew up in would say bake the cake and serve Huckabee, because it's the right thing to do in being a kind human being. 'Do unto others ...' and 'Judge not ...' and many other quotes I could give that say 'Be decent no matter what you think of the other person.' But ... again ... this ruling left the door wide open for this to happen. This country is in all kinds of crises, imo. And Mike, you've said many times that this is going to come down to some kind of revolution. I can't see any end but that at this point.

[TheLeviathan]

Is it the ruling that caused this or is it just another symptom of how divided we are?  

 

Actions like this seem petty.  Serve her a dynamite meal, thank her for coming, and ask her to reconsider the agenda she serves and the harm it causes people and wish her well.

 

Decency and compassion are more powerful than bitterness and petty behavior.

[Squirrel]

 

Is it the ruling that caused this or is it just another symptom of how divided we are?  

 

Actions like this seem petty.  Serve her a dynamite meal, thank her for coming, and ask her to reconsider the agenda she serves and the harm it causes people and wish her well.

 

Decency and compassion are more powerful than bitterness and petty behavior.

As I said, I agree. I think it's both. I think that if that ruling hadn't come down as it did, they'd have served her. But yes, it's also certainly a symptom of our divisiveness. Personally, I don't understand refusing someone service on the grounds of religion. It's just not what my religion taught me growing up. Mine taught me to be kind and decent no matter who the other person was. Remember when Jesus hung out with the 'dregs' of society? Yeah, that's been forgotten. But in today's society, religion has become so warped by power and political gain the lessons of human decency are lost.

[Mr. Brooks]

It's not exactly the same. Huckabee has made a choice, which is different than being born a certain way. There are lines.....i don't think people should have to serve someone wearing a shirt that says kill all Jews, for example. Now, has Huckabee crossed that line? Probably not, but there is a line.

Wearing a shirt, or saying that, is a behavior issue though. I don't think anyone would take issue with a business's right to regulate behavior in its establishment.

 

If you are saying it's ok to decline service because of the choices people make outside of the establishment, then be prepared to let that cut both ways.

Interracial marriage is a choice. Sex before marriage is a choice. Atheism is a choice. Religion is a choice.

 

Are you okay with businesses turning those people away, based on those choices?

What if they feel as strongly against those things as you do against people who want to kill all Jews?

 

There is no room for that in America, IMO.

[TheLeviathan]

 

As I said, I agree. I think it's both. I think that if that ruling hadn't come down as it did, they'd have served her. But yes, it's also certainly a symptom of our divisiveness. Personally, I don't understand refusing someone service on the grounds of religion. It's just not what my religion taught me growing up. Mine taught me to be kind and decent no matter who the other person was. Remember when Jesus hung out with the 'dregs' of society? Yeah, that's been forgotten. But in today's society, religion has become so warped by power and political gain the lessons of human decency are lost.

 

We might just be saying the same thing in different ways.  I think the ruling emboldened people on this sort of behavior, but I also think we're doing this kind of thing in a lot of ways to each other.  

 

So it isn't really new, particularly on social media.  This is just that same behavior becoming direct.

[Mr. Brooks]

As I said, I agree. I think it's both. I think that if that ruling hadn't come down as it did, they'd have served her. But yes, it's also certainly a symptom of our divisiveness. Personally, I don't understand refusing someone service on the grounds of religion. It's just not what my religion taught me growing up. Mine taught me to be kind and decent no matter who the other person was. Remember when Jesus hung out with the 'dregs' of society? Yeah, that's been forgotten. But in today's society, religion has become so warped by power and political gain the lessons of human decency are lost.

Anyone who would turn someone away based on religion has no interest in actually practicing their religion.

I try to avoid discussing religion, but when people are as blatantly hypocritical and phony as many Christians are today, it makes it harder and harder for me to give any of them the benefit of the doubt.

[AZTwin]

Just reading this thread. Just utter nonsense. Bunch of hate and baseless accusations

[PseudoSABR]

 

Just reading this thread. Just utter nonsense. Bunch of hate and baseless accusations

Thanks for steering the thread in a more positive direction!

[ashbury]

I think anyone on my side of the fence gets a guilty pleasure from the insult to the president's flack, but on the other hand, to me it's not an effective strategy toward convincing anyone in the roughly 40% of voters somewhere in the middle of the spectrum who are persuadable to any remaining degree - it's not a level playing field and if the Left carries the banner of tolerance then less overt rudeness is expected in every aspect of public discourse. But back to the first hand, one doesn't always get to pick the opportunities for expressing one's opinion directly, and I might not have been able to resist either, if given the binary choice whether to showboat or not, and only little time to weigh the pros and cons of either.

[Badsmerf]

Just reading this thread. Just utter nonsense. Bunch of hate and baseless accusations

You crack me up. You do realize what you just did right?

[TheLeviathan]

Since I think there are political implications to this, I thought it was an interesting read.  

 

I was surprised the article didn't mention another potential culprit - rural communities in general are aging and dying.  

[ashbury]

Since I think there are political implications to this, I thought it was an interesting read.  

 

I was surprised the article didn't mention another potential culprit - rural communities in general are aging and dying.  

The article is Minnesota-centric, but does provide some national numbers. However, something doesn't smell right about the analysis, to me - or at least, it's main points can't be extrapolated very far. Here is an article about a fairly recent national survey from the Pew Research Center.

 

What I take from the numbers is that there is change, but maybe not of the kind that will result in overt political change. The country isn't rapidly becoming un-religious, and the changes may or may not help one side of the political aisle or the other. The Pew numbers show affiliation with mainline Christian religions down, but the Unaffiliated ("nothing in particular") crowd that grew is something of a wild-card. A politician who makes an appeal to traditional values might still find a receptive audience among many in this segment. And there is growth in the non-Christian affiliations, again with the potential for appeals to strict moralism.

 

Churches are indeed consolidating, but for instance in the Catholic faith it's largely because of a scarcity of priests. My wife's parish has two buildings in our New England town but only one priest, who shuttles between them to perform Mass on Sunday morning. This proportional change by itself says little about the demographics. The article mentioned mergers but I missed any mention of this cause.

 

If the thrust of the article is only that populations are migrating out of rural areas to cities, that's not a particularly new observation. And that trend was already in evidence in my mother's time, who moved from a farm in southern Indiana to the Big City (Indianapolis), a world away. Probably a look at the census figures in the 19th century revealed the same trend earlier. For states with big cities, the overall political impact may be small. For states without big cities, their politics may become more extreme, but we're pretty much there already for all intents and purposes

[TheLeviathan]

 

The article is Minnesota-centric, but does provide some national numbers. However, something doesn't smell right about the analysis, to me - or at least, it's main points can't be extrapolated very far. Here is an article about a fairly recent national survey from the Pew Research Center.

 

What I take from the numbers is that there is change, but maybe not of the kind that will result in overt political change. The country isn't rapidly becoming un-religious, and the changes may or may not help one side of the political aisle or the other. 

 

The Pew studies show 7% in 7 years, you don't consider that pretty rapid?

 

And, to me, the most alarming stat was the baptisms.  Cutting those by a third and half since 2000 indicates a major change that we may see bear out in the numbers down the road.