TopGunn#22

This is why I come to TD. An interesting and controversial topic with many interesting takes. For me, this kind of comes down on how healthy our young pitching pipeline is. And for the last couple years it hasn't been. If we have widespread injury problems with pitchers again, Pagan is at least durable. The new pitch is nice. it's ALWAYS nice when a pitcher can toy with a "new pitch." But like someone else pointed out, if you can throw 100 mph like Megill but don't have any consistent command, what good is that? If the young pitching pipeline has a spring/summer/fall of health, some of them will certainly be a better option than Pagan. If arbitration WORKED, Pagan would be getting a pay cut. He was epically BAD. To me, as a sales manager, that doesn't warrant a RAISE. But I know attaching real world common sense to "sports world" salaries is childish, so I won't go there (even though I just did).

I can't see him going to the Dodgers (they will re-sign Trea Turner) or the Yankees (they've got TWO young SS's that they LOVE. Kiner-Falefa is around as insurance until one of them, probably Peraza starts). Boston would be better off bringing Bogaerts back or shifting Story over. Really, there aren't a LOT of teams that would be desperate. Seattle could look to make a bid and move Crawford to 2B. I just can't see the Cubs going after him and the White Sox have Tim Anderson. Would they really shift Anderson to the outfield ? I doubt it. I agree that Correa is a leader and we are a better team WITH him. We really can't count on Lewis being ready or Brooks Lee who I think will be a fast mover through the system. The Twins are in position to keep him. I think it should be the FO's top task this off-season. I don't think much will happen this off-season until the Yankees re-sign Judge.

I keep Fulmer and J. Lopez to fortify my BP with a couple vets who have upside (Jorge Lopez isn't going anywhere). I certainly protect Canterino. He's got tremendous upside and after all they've been through with him just protect him and let him rehab and hopefully see what you have with him eventually. Keep Urshela for Pete's Sake. He's been solid all year. We need a SS if Correa isn't back. We need catchers. We need a RH hitting OF'er. And we have Kirilloff, Larnach, Wallner and Kepler. We don't need FOUR LH hitting OF'ers. One needs to be packaged in a trade, hopefully for pitching and/or a catcher. There is a TON of dead weight just waiting to be cut loose. Wipe the board clean and start over.

Great topic S.B. and one I consider the "opening salvo" of how the Twins can look to improve in 2023. INJURIES. That more than anything else killed the Twins in 2022. We were basically a AAA team from August 1st. Goodness, an outfield of Cave, Contreras and whoever can't win you anything in the major leagues. More than anything else, the Twins need health in 2023. The problem is, we've been saying that for several years now. Something has to change in their off-season training/preparation and in season as well. I'm looking forward to our many discussions of the 40-man roster and how the brain trust should manage it. We still have areas of strength (talented LH hitting OF'ers, 2B) and gaping holes (SS ?? Certainly Catcher, SP's that can go 6+). One of the first things I'd do is get on the phone to Toronto. They've got THREE good catchers. Top prospect Moreno, Kirk and Jansen. What would it take to pry one of them away ? With a projected starting rotation of Mahle, Gray, Ryan, Maeda and Ober, and with Winder, SWR and Varland waiting in the wings there is depth in the rotation, but what if another quality SP like Pablo Lopez was acquired ? Everyone drops a peg and you've got a 6-7 inning pitcher leading your staff. Winder, Ober and others are the 2+ inning BP options. Duran and Lopez make a fine back end. Theilbar and Jax will be back. It has the makings of a solid pitching staff. Which leaves us with SS. I've been the guy holding out hope for Correa. I still don't want to give up on that. A Gold Glove SS with 20-25 HR power and a .280-.300 batting average is pretty hard to come by. I'd give him 4-years $160 million. I'd still have Lewis and Brooks Lee waiting in the wings, but the Twins are just so much better with Correa on the team. I like what I saw from Wallner. I'm sure other teams noted him as well. With Kirilloff, Larnach, Wallner and Kepler somebody needs to be traded. I'd move one of them in a package for a Pablo Lopez type or a Toronto catcher. I'd also look at moving Polanco to solidify catcher and a #1 SP. Arraez and Gordon, maybe Lewis as well can cover 2B. I play Kirilloff and Miranda at 1B. I retain Urshela. The Twins have assets other teams would be interested in. It shouldn't be as hard as we've made it to find a solid RH hitting 4th OF'er. Finally, if Correa isn't back a Jose Iglesias type is still needed to bridge the gap from Lewis being READY to step in full time. That's my plan (kind of) and I'm sticking to it. (until a better idea comes along).

I have been consistent with my satisfaction that we signed Carlos to the contract we did and in maintaining my hope we could work something out to have him stay here. I've got no problem with his response to the question. He was honest and straightforward. Honesty is always the best policy. We have Royce Lewis and Brooks Lee on the way and another young SS (Miller?) moving up the ladder. Alas, Palacios and Wander Javier are never gonna make it. It will NOT take Brooks Lee 5 years to get to the big club. I give it 3 years. Lewis may or may not be ready next year, but as a fan, I'd just like to see him have ONE healthy season. I wouldn't be opposed to a 5-year $200 million dollar contract. It allows for Lewis and Lee to grow and at any time during the contract Carlos could be traded and one of Lewis or Lee becomes the regular SS. I think it's a slam dunk, no doubter that Correa is the best player on the current Twins team. In fact, it's not even close. Teams seldom get better when they don't retain their best player, but I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the Mariners winning 115 games after saying goodbye to Griffey, Randy Johnson and A-Rod in the span of a couple years. But I certainly feel the Mariners were the exception. Unless you're looking at a one-year Jose Iglesias type of bridge at SS there really aren't many better options than paying Correa. We're not going to out-bid the Braves for Swanson. We're not signing Bogaerts. Turner is staying with the Dodgers (he's not going anywhere). I think the best course of action is to retain Correa and FINALLY get something sustained and significant from our pitching pool of young flame throwers. Mahle, Gray, Maeda, Ryan, Ober, Winder, is a decent starting point for a rotation next year. Rather than throwing big money at a SP I'd rather retain that Gold Glove winning, clutch bat swinging SS for another 3-4 years.

For my money, the BEST uniforms the Twins have ever had are their original 1961-1971 pinstripe home and cream road. Maybe it was growing up back then with Killebrew, Oliva, Carew and Tovar, but those uniforms are far and away the best. The blue Twins script and the blue numbers on the back. I understand the desire to "modernize" and to switch things up to sell more merchandise, but the Dodgers and Yankees don't do it, so why should we. At a minimum, just for my satisfaction, they should wear those original jerseys every weekend or every Friday-Saturday-Sunday.

Amen Brother "LastOnePicked" ! Amen !!

I'm not in the camp that it's a fait accompli that Correa doesn't come back. But Lewis is a guy every one of us is rooting for and I don't think he'll let us down. Remember, Paul Molitor had all sorts of injury woes early in his career and became a Hall of famer and World Series MVP. Maybe the same fate awaits Royce Lewis. Even if Correa comes back, there is certainly a role for Lewis to have significant playing time in 2023.

He's one of my favorite Twins players on this team, but his offensive slid is just so frustrating to watch. It's true, we've had SO many injuries and with Buxton always a question mark day to day our outfield has been a mess all season. Heck, we've been starting Cave, Wallner and Contreras with a healthy dose of Gordon. Because of that, and the fact that despite his anemic offense Max is a net positive player it would be surprising to see him dealt, but if he was part of a package to bring a Pablo Lopez type of SP to the club I'd be in favor. I would still want to see him do well with a new club.

I wanted Montas. I campaigned all winter and throughout the season for him. And he's been a 2nd half disaster. So I have egg on my face over that. I can't be too critical of this front office for the moves they made. They should have traded Berrios and were wise to prioritize Buxton over him. Gray and Mahle will be valuable members of the rotation next season and we must wait and see on Paddock. Maeda will be back. And then you have young guns like Ryan, Winder and Ober. I'm beating a dead horse here, but HEALTH has been something in short supply for the Twins and throughout the minor league teams in the last couple years. They need to stay healthy. I hope the front office stays aggressive this off-season. They need to settle the Correa situation and then move quickly once it's decided.

The development of Wallner gives the Twins 3 good, young LH hitters (with Kirilloff and Larnach). I still think Kirilloff can and will be the best of them and his ability to play a smooth 1B probably makes him the most valuable...if healthy ! With this surplus, the Twins could certainly reach out to a team like the Marlins to dangle a young bat for some MLB ready pitching (Like Pablo Lopez). The Marlins also have some talented pitchers trying to overcome some injuries like Max Meyer and Sixto Sanchez who the Twins could be interested in. Miami needs hitting and has a surplus of pitching. There is no doubt Miami will be looking to trade from their surplus. it will be interesting to see if the Twins are part of their discussions.

I disagree with the notion that Byron Buxton SHOULDN'T be stealing 30-bases a year. With the larger bases he SHOULD be stealing 40 !! Rocco is hopeless when it comes to SB's. No team has attempted fewer than the Twins, and guys like Buxton, Gordon and Kepler should certainly be running more. I don't think Rocco and his staff coach it at all. They think we'll hit 300+ HR's every year. I swear, that first managerial year record ruined Rocco as a manager. The fans are certainly the big winners. The game should be more entertaining.

We are sinking like a stone. 2-8 in our last 10 games and it's a team wide collapse. There are enough games left with the Guardians and White Sox to pull this out, but unfortunately there are no indications that this is even remotely possible. We ARE seeing Correa shine brighter down the stretch, but it probably won't be enough. Would love to have some kind of certainty that he will be back next year, but it's a complete unknown. Let the NFL begin with Vikings vs Packers.

I like these changes. As was said by by D.C. the bureaucracy finally got something right. There are still magic moments in baseball, but "analytics" has over analyzed the game into something not as good as it once was. It's lost its "poetry." I miss the days of pitchers who got the ball, took the sign and rocked and fired. I miss the stolen base. I think I almost always unconsciously hold my breath every time the catcher makes the throw. The Twins will have problems with this stuff next year though. Rocco is the least aggressive manager in baseball history (yes, this is hyperbole). He and his staff must not value the SB at all because guys that SHOULD be able to steal bases (Buxton, Gordon, Kepler) NEVER RUN. It's all 3-Run HR's for Rocco. Part of baseball is disputing ball and strike calls, but this year and the last couple years have been really frustrating watching that little "box" and what does get called a strike and what doesn't. If they're going to continue to put that "box" up on the TV screen, just go to computer ump balls and strikes. At least that's my opinion. I also agree with whoever commented that due to teams and players refusal or inability to counter the exaggerated shifts, MLB had to step in and do something. Kepler is "Exhibit A." An intelligent guy like him should NOT be this futile against a shift. I'd like to believe he hits .270-.280 next year, but...I'll believe it when I see it.

Brooks Lee. He's the real deal. Not sure if he can stick at SS or if he ends up at 3B or 2B but he's on a fast track to the Big Leagues.

After last night's pathetic effort I'd take any and all five if they were guaranteed.

I agree with chpettit. I like the way Atlanta manages their roster. They identify talent and then they lock that core up for a reasonable time frame. It allows them to maintain roster consistency and cost consistency/efficiency. I also agree with others who suggest locking Mahle and Gray up for a time. We shouldn't have traded for those guys to just lose them in a season and a half. At this point, I have a healthy skepticism that ANY of our young pitchers will ever develop into anything. None of them can stay healthy. That said, "you can never have too much pitching." A staff of Mahle, Maeda, Gray and Ryan is a good starting point. Winder, Paddock, Ober, Balazovic (whose value has cratered) and others must get healthy and STAY healthy and then maybe we will find something. Remember, you can always trade pitching (especially YOUNG pitching) and get a heck of a lot back. The #1 off season priority is Correa (just like Buxton was last year). They need to determine if he's staying or going soon after the season ends. THAT will determine how they build the roster for 2023. If he's back, we have a great SS and a bat that plays in the #2, #3 or #4 spot in the batting order. If he's gone, that leaves a huge hole at SS that needs to be filled. And I don't think Lewis can be counted on at SS for 150 games. (hopefully someday). I'd still like to break him in gradually as a super-utility guy who plays IF and OF 5 games a week. Maybe a guy like Bogaerts could be signed if Correa moves on. Maybe a lesser option like Jose Iglesias, but if Correa leaves, they will need a SS. Lock up your core. Have cost certainty and then determine how much you have to spend to fill other roster holes.

I'm with Whitey. I think Lopez will be just fine. He's talented. But Rocco is one of the worst managers I've ever seen due to his complete reliance on HR's to score runs. He doesn't steal bases. He doesn't hit and run. He doesn't bunt. When he does bunt, his players cannot execute. Rocco managed teams are incapable of manufacturing runs. It's why we're so impotent in extra inning situations. If a team gets that ghost-runner from 2nd to 3rd with one or zero outs it puts incredible pressure on the defense. Again, Lopez will be fine. He will bounce back. Pagan has been an unmitigated disaster. Just like Colome last year. Rocco is Rocco. I'd love to see Paul Molitor come back. But I know that's not happening.

Kirilloff and Lewis certainly rank at the top. For the rest of THIS season, it's Larnach for sure and for me Winder. I like Ober, but like Winder better. I'd take either ASAP but get me some Josh Winder soon.

Yup, you can never have too much pitching, especially with all the injuries Twins pitchers have had to deal with these last 3 years or so. Maybe Canterino is destined for a bullpen role. But I've got to believe that the Twins would want to get him to the big league club at some point in the not too distant future and protect him a bit by limiting his innings by having him come out of the pen and then after a solid season, like Duran is having, see if he can get over the injury bug hump. Duran looks awfully good as a dominant BP piece, but with Jorge Lopez now in the fold, along with Fulmer (not sure he will be back, but he's a solid piece, so let's assume he's resigned for a reasonable price) could the Twins consider using Duran as a SP in 2020 ? I've read on TD several times that the Twins still like his potential as a SP. He just hasn't stayed healthy. Canterino is very similar to Duran. Dominant stuff when healthy...but rarely healthy. I think the Twins have Duran, Canterino, Winder and Balazovic as guys with a lot of potential. And guys like Woods-Richardson and Varland aren't far behind. With Mahle, Gray, Ryan and Maeda they have a solid #1-#4 and Ober showed some real potential. I could see Archer even being back next season. IF...and this is a big if...guys can stay relatively healthy, could you imagine a SP rotation of the 4 guys listed and Ober or Winder and then a BP with Jorge Lopez, Duran and Canterino in the back end with Archer available to give you 3 innings here and there ? THAT'S pretty intriguing going into next season. To me, this is why retaining Correa, at least for 2023 is crucial. He's darn good. and I think he'll be even better in 2023. With the continued development of Miranda and a healthy 2023 for Kirilloff and Larnach... (and Lewis) toss in Polanco and Buxton and the Twins will certainly be in the mix and could even knock off a Yankees or Astros in the playoffs. I think the Twins are positioned to be very good for the near future.

The trade deadline addressed several of these and the bullpen got much better by the additions as well as the subtractions. But clutch hitting as well as "situational" hitting has been a Twins weakness consistently. We still strike out far too much, especially in situations where a strikeout kills us. For example: striking out with a runner on 3B and less than 2 outs. We also appear to be incapable of moving the extra inning runner at 2B to 3B with our first hitter of the inning (even when we're fumbling to get a bunt down). Putting that runner on 3B with one out puts incredible pressure on the defense and we consistently fail to accomplish this.

I agree Major League Ready. I could see Winder being that #5. We could also go out and make a FA splash, but I doubt it. The #1 priority will be keeping Correa in the fold. And maybe next year we will finally get to see Canterino and Balazovic.

This. Was. A. GREAT. TRADE !!! Povich may or may not make it. The other guys are less than lottery tickets. I'm not sure why the Orioles did this but I couldn't be happier. Lopez will NOT turn into a pumpkin. He's found his home as a solid BP arm. It would be just like Rocco to use him primarily in the 6th inning (since Rocco doesn't really know how to manage a BP or clearly define the roles BP pitchers should have). This kind of move is JUST what the Twins needed.

I agree. Great trade. They gave up some talent, but Mahle is only 27 years old and will probably be a solid part of the Twins Starting Rotation for the next 5-6 years. The Twins were going to have some tough 40-man decisions to make in this off season. Now, with Mahle and Lopez, they have a couple guys who will certainly be important cogs for the rest of this season and hopefully, several more. Other players in the system will emerge. They didn't give up: Kirilloff, Lewis, Miranda, Larnach, Canterino, Balazovic, SWR, Winder, Martin (you get the point).

This is a GREAT move !! hate to give up Povich but 2.5 years of control for Lopez is tremendous. I have been advocating for the Twins to get him and have even suggested several trades on TD. Rocco should put Lopez as his primary closer and use Duran as the 8th inning guy who can close when Lopez is not available. This is a solid addition to the back end and hopefully we can land Pablo Lopez or Tyler Mahle later today. Way to go F.O. !!!!