TopGunn#22

That is QUITE a list !!!

This move doesn't really push the needle but I can see the logic. Like last year, the Twins FO is putting their eggs in a basket of a couple veteran pitchers to regain some of their earlier career "magic." Last year, it turned out to be an epic fail. The leash for Happ and Shoemaker was far too long. But as others have pointed out, the injuries to pitchers and the weird 2020 covid shortened season messed things up royally. I'm hoping for the best, but I'm also hoping for a quicker pivot if Bundy and Archer trend more like Happ/Shoemaker than Rich Hill. This year, we have the young pitchers ready and knocking on the door. It's clear, the A's and Reds are holding out for King's Ransoms. Better to wait the market out at this point. In fact, Luis Castillo is experiencing "shoulder soreness" right now. The Reds certainly need to wait until he shows he can pitch before dealing him. It's not how I "hoped" the rotation would look when the season started, but the current situation probably makes this necessary. I'd still like to see the Twins try to get Max Meyer from the Marlins. I think Max is close to being a big league SP and right now, Miami has no place for him.

Cody, this is a PERFECT time to bring something like this up and I believe there will be a LOT of opinions and none of them will be wrong. Here's what I think: 1. Arraez DH 2. Buxton CF 3. Polanco 2B 4. Correa SS 5. Kiriloff LF 6. Urshela 3B 7. Kepler RF 8. Sano 1B 9. Sanchez/Jeffers C This lineup doesn't have Miranda in it. I think he should also be a consistent piece in the lineup. Let's suppose Sano is off to his usual "slow start." I'd shake things up like this: 1. Arraez DH 2. Buxton CF 3. Polanco 2B 4. Correa SS 5. Kiriloff 1B 6. Miranda LF 7. Kepler RF 8. Sanchez/Jeffers C 9. Urshela 3B I would still want to keep this lineup pretty steady. I just swap in Miranda for Sano. I want Arraez at the top and I don't care if he can't run. He gets on base at a .380-.400 clip. Set. The. Table. Buxton's power and speed slot in well at #2. Polanco's switch hitting and solid bat to ball skills work well at #3. Correa at cleanup is my desire. He's clutch and will drive in runs. Kirilloff is a future #3 hitter for the Twins who slots in well at #5 with bat to ball skills and power (plus some protection for Correa). #6-#9 are fluid depending on who's swinging a hot bat. Urshela has the most movement in my lineups and he's a bit of an unknown. Do we get 2019 Gio or something quite less? It remains to be seen. I would just like Rocco to finally (if we're not going to trade him for pitching) put Arraez in the leadoff spot and leave him there.

These are great points, and until we see some of these (or all of them) at the Major League level it's hard to accurately guess how they might affect the game, much less specific players. But I believe change IS coming. MLB needs to find some way to speed up the pace of the game without artificially making it SEEM unnaturally "sped up."

I'm all for this, whether Duran is an opener or is used as a RP. Young arms can and will flame out. Get his arm up to the Big Leagues and see what he can do. I would hate to see him included in a trade, but if it's part of a package that brings Montas or better yet Montas AND Manaea I'd do it. Canterino is another possible Starter or dominant closer candidate. Trading one of those two still leaves us the other possibility.

Here's the trade I just posted on MLB Trade Values: Twins Get: Montas 39.6 Sean Manaea 14.1 Lou Trivino 1.10 Total 54.80 A's Get: Arraez 27.9 Larnach 22.6 Cavaco 3.0 Simeon Woods-Richardson 5.4 Total Value 58.90 The Twins over pay, but it's necessary to make this final step to remake the roster for 2022 and beyond. Starting Rotation: Montas, Gray, Manaea, Ryan, Ober. Taylor Rogers and Trivino now close and hold down the 8th inning. Duffy and Alcala are 7th-8th inning guys. Pretty solid team, and we have the trade capital to make this happen with Oakland.

Yup, now to put the cherry on top the Twins FO needs to go out and get Frankie Montas. In fact, I liked the idea of making a blockbuster for BOTH Montas and Manaea. A staff of Montas, Gray, Manaea, Ryan, Ober would be solid. Plus, with a lot of young pitchers close to breaking thru there would be some depth. But yes, at this point, I'd go for the killshot and part with Arraez, Larnach, two young arms and Cavaco for Montas & Manaea. If I can get Montas or BOTH without giving up Martin/Lewis/Balazovic I'm pushing all my chips to the middle of the table and calling the bet.

I see the lineup like this: Vs a LHP Vs a RHP Miranda LF Buxton CF Buxton CF Polanco 2B Polonco 2B Kiriloff 1B Correa SS Correa SS Sano 1B Kepler RF Kiriloff RF Sano DH Sanchez DH Gio 3B Gio 3B Miranda LF Jeffers C Jeffers C I have a LOT of faith that Kiriloff will be exciting this year. Kepler is a Wildcard. With no shift (or "limited" shifts) will he be an everyday player ? And I have a LOT of faith in Miranda. Make him the LF'er right now. He can move around as the season progresses. Arraez goes to Oakland with some young arms to get Montas (and maybe even Manaea).

Oh. My. God. This is FAN-TAS-TIC !!! What a bolt of LIGHTENING ! I have to admit, I was getting nervous when the Giants and Red Sox were sniffing around Story. And for the Twins FO to have pulled this off. Unbelievable !! The best headline was about the Yankees desperately wanting Correa, and then making a trade that essentially set the Twins up to steal him from them. Now, lets go out and get Montas and get ready to battle it out in the A.L. Central. I don't miss Isaiah Kiner-Falefa anymore !! I tip my hat to the twins Front Office.

Nice Job Jamie ! Good discussion as well.

Amen Nash ! This is what I've been pushing for ALL off season. Doc Bauer pretty much laid out every point I would have. In my mind, you make the deal with the Yankees to make a deal with Oakland (or Miami or the Reds) to get that other stud SP to head the rotation with Gray so that your "youngen's" have some leadership and MUCH less pressure. To tie this all together, you MUST sign Story or Correa (and it's clear Story is the guy). Can they pull this all together ? In theory it's a great plan, but requires some heavy lifting. I've been guilty of being pretty down on this FO for quite awhile. Last year's failures were in some respects unforgiveable. The White Sox FO just outworked and out hustled ours. The Sonny Gray trade was a master stroke and built some of my lost trust back up. I think many here on TD are selling Urshela short and Sanchez is a potential 30-HR catcher who's a mystery wrapped in an enigma. But for the first time in a long time, I can actually reason through a possible "PLAN" this FO has and it's interesting with all kinds of potential. Does Buxton need to stay healthy?? Darn right he does. Do the young pitchers need to flash some talent ? Darn right they do. But if the FO can finish this race with a strong kick and deliver us Trevor Story and either Montas, Castillo or Sixto Sanchez/Max Meyer I will salute them for a great effort.

My first thought when I saw this story pop up (and after I got my head to stop spinning) was that this MUST be the prelude to a Trevor Story signing. Why else make these moves unless you intend to move Donaldson's $$$ off the books and add Story to the payroll, changing out a Gold Glove caliber 3B-man in Urshela and a solid glove at SS in Story. Urshela is very similar to Kiner-Falefa defensively without the speed but with more consistent power. Sanchez is a power bat, probably too similar to Sano but with 30-HR potential.

Health is ALWAYS a major consideration. Especially with guys like Buxton, Polanco and Donaldson being such keys. You can even include Arraez in that list if he isn't traded. But I've been saying for months, we play in the A.L. Central (it's not the same as playing in the N.L. West). MLB has expanded the playoffs. And despite last years debacle, they had won two straight Division Championships and still have a core that could compete. Plugging the SS hole with Kiner-Falefa (who is NOT a BAD hitter, just not a 25 HR SS) and getting Sonny Gray are very good moves. At this point, I'm trading Arraez for pitching and playing Miranda in LF (after what he did in AAA he should be moved ahead of Rooker & Larnach) and Kiriloff is my First-Baseman. That's a lineup that can score runs. keep building the pitching staff for 2022 and beyond.

Doc Bauer, I agree ! I think some GOOD opportunities were missed early but this trade for sonny Gray is excellent. I'm sorry to see Petty go, but he's 4-5 years away and just look at the list of pitching prospects we have! We can afford to package Arraez or Larnach with a young pitching prospect and maybe someone like Cavaco to make a big splash in a trade or just sign Big Mike and go to lunch. I hope they aim high and skip lunch.

Baseball Trade values has Gray listed at a value of 28.3. Peguero, the other pitcher acquired is only .10. Petty on the other hand has a listed value of 4.80. The Twins CRUSHED this trade. Look, I hate to see Petty go. He was an intriguing prospect. But he's YEARS away. For this season and next at a minimum Sonny Gray is a GREAT addition. I agree with those who are disappointed we didn't add someone like Bassitt. But when you STEAL Gray away from the Reds like the Twins did here, you can package something to Oakland for Montas. Players in play for that type of move would include: Arraez, Larnach, Lewis, Martin, some of our young pitchers. The point is, we have the firepower, should we choose to use it, to acquire a SP like Montas to pair with Gray at the top of our rotation and certainly compete for a playoff spot. Let's hope there is more to come.

I like this trade as it solidifies the SS position. However, there simply HAVE to be other moves to add pitching coming from the FO. Many on TD always look at adding veteran pitching as a one-year solution. I don't. If I trade Arraez in a package to get pitching from the Marlins or A's I'm looking to make a commitment to keeping whatever I gave solid assets up to get. I see no need to keep Arraez with the acquisition of Kiner-Falefa. Unless a trade of Donaldson is coming I don't want to see anyone blocking Miranda. He has nothing left to prove at St. Paul. He needs AB's, whether that's as our regular LF'er, 3B-man or primary utility man. Kiriloff will be in the lineup regularly at either 1B or LF with an occasional game at DH. The young RH pitcher is also a fine addition. having him could allow the Twins to trade one of our "other" young pitchers in a package or possibly spin Henriquez off as part of a deal to bring in a vet.

There just HAS to be a way for teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh to compete. Heck, when free agency started it was the Baltimore Orioles who signed Reggie Jackson first...NOT the Yankees. If Baltimore or Pittsburgh REALLY wanted to compete, they'd spend some #### Money !! They just like to make bank deposits.

I'd make a strong play for Suzuki at 5-yrs $55.00 million. He's in our price range and could hit on a par with Bryant and Castellanos while providing better defense.

I agree with Doc Gast on this for the most part. I see Buxton playing 100+ games (if indeed there is a season at all) and he will be in the mix for MVP votes even if the team as a whole does poorly). I see Polanco as the "steady Eddy." He will be money in the bank even if he slips to 25 HR (instead of 33). Garver will be fine if rotated between C/1B/DH in some fashion. Donaldson will be solid. The big question marks are indeed Sano and Kepler. Their impact on the 2019 Bomba Squad was undeniable. Since then their performance has dragged the lineup down. They are the two biggest Wildcards. I EXPECT Kiriloff to HIT. That swing is just too pretty. Larnach has further to go and we may not see anything at all from him this year or at best, not until after the All Star game. I'm fully on board for trading Arraez in a package for pitching upgrades (and boy do we need them). Miranda will pick up the slack nicely if Arraez is traded. If Luis is NOT traded, it will be up to Rocco to FINALLY just put him at the top of the order and play him at LF,2B,3B and DH. Just have him in there nearly every day and setting the table at the top of the order. The Twins, by and large, will hit and score runs. How they pitch is impossible to gauge at this moment because if our FO goes into this season with the pitching staff as presently constituted (or makes similar lousy additions to last year) then they should be charged with "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" and IMPEACHED !!

I think the comp to Mauer is just what Cody wanted, nothing more than a catcher who is a VERY good hitter but that catchers tend to get beat up more than most other position players. As hitters, Mauer and Garver are almost polar opposites. I think Cody is making an excellent point. We have two young catchers in Jeffers and Rortvedt who need to play. It may be a little too soon for Rortvedt with the Twins, but he did play a bit with them last year and his defensive chops are for real. We currently have no LF'er. The idea, (even if Kiriloff is the superior defensive 1B-man) of rotating Garver and Sano between DH & 1B and sticking AK out in LF may hurt the overall defense a bit, but would really add juice to the lineup. If the Twins could live with the ups and downs of Jeffers and Rortvedt offensively, this is a strategy I would fully support. I'd love to see what Garve-Sauce could do with 500 AB's.

I agree with what ashbury said in response to my comment. BTV is not the "be all and end all" but it's at least a point I can start when imagining a trade. Even as fervent fans there is SO MUCH we have no clue about. But of course as fans we want to imagine a trade or two that would help our hometown team. I especially agree with his take on Donaldson's value but I also can absolutely see the logic as to why that site could assign him a negative trade value. Doc, I am convinced that I traded a Hank Aaron for a Tony Oliva to an older kid in my neighborhood when I was probably 7 or 8 years old. Tony-O was my favorite and in my history-altering memory, I'm convinced I traded the Aaron where he's holding the bat cross-handed (making me convinced the stats on the back of his card MUST be fake) !! Oh, the memories !!

I think you nailed it Nash. And combining Kiriloff and Sano into one was shrewd. They are linked to each other for a number of reasons. I think people are "fairly" comfortable about what Joe Ryan will provide. But Ober MUST not falter. And it doesn't matter if the Twins bring in some vet SP's thru trade or FA to bolster the roster or not. Ober is being counted on heavily and then need him to continue to progress. And I like that you saved Lewis for last. He could be Buxton-esque in many ways, or never clear the hurdle of "health" first so he can let his talent flow. These last 3 years for him have not helped his situation at all. Twins fans still have high hopes.

I love the site. It's always fun to "dream" up a trade or two that would benefit the Twins or whoever your favorite team is, and the "values" assigned each player take a lot of factors into consideration. Otherwise, you're doing nothing more than trading baseball cards with other kids in your neighborhood, where the "big kids" take advantage of the "little kids" by proposing a Johnny Klippsten (because he's a Twin and the card looks cool) for Mickey Mantle (or in a more subtle move, Al Kaline). The challenge is proposing something where not only the "values" come close, but the trade benefits BOTH teams. And it's always O.K. to agree to disagree. I have posted several proposed trades on the site and a few have involved an Arraez centered package that brings back Frankie Montas. There's a guy named "Grover" who always downvotes my trade (he's an A's fan, or at least I THINK he is) because he doesn't see the A's needing Arraez. I usually counter with pointing out that the A's only have Tony Kemp at 2B and he's a converted outfielder and if they trade Chapman, they could use Arraez at 3B in addition to DH. But I respect his criticism because he's probably more vested in what the A's would get back. I did plenty of downvoting and commenting when people proposed trades for Buxton that I deemed unworthy. But it's a great site that helps give you a sense of why player "X" is valued more than player "Y" even though "X" may be an accepted "Star" in the league. Or why some players, like Donaldson or Sano would actually carry a "negative" trade value.

Well, 9 of 12 is speaking of Walter Johnson (I know you know this DJL44). This is what makes it interesting in how you frame this question. "The Big Train" is one of the greatest pitchers in baseball history, not just of this franchise. But I thought it was framed that for THIS exercise, we would only consider Minnesota Twins players from 1961 to present. Otherwise, Johnson is up there and Joe Mauer probably isn't. This is very much like considering a "Dodgers" Mount Rushmore. Do you separate Brooklyn from L.A. ? If you do, Things get MUCH tougher for their Mt. Rushmore. Or a Giants Mt. Rushmore between New York & San Francisco. What makes the Twins question so tough is that the became the Twins and the Senators had another iteration as an expansion team. At least the Dodgers and Giants remained the Dodgers and Giants.

I'm just so sick of the players and owners right now I don't care if they ban shifts or not. I'm just sick of the whole bunch of them.