TopGunn#22

I keep Fulmer and J. Lopez to fortify my BP with a couple vets who have upside (Jorge Lopez isn't going anywhere). I certainly protect Canterino. He's got tremendous upside and after all they've been through with him just protect him and let him rehab and hopefully see what you have with him eventually. Keep Urshela for Pete's Sake. He's been solid all year. We need a SS if Correa isn't back. We need catchers. We need a RH hitting OF'er. And we have Kirilloff, Larnach, Wallner and Kepler. We don't need FOUR LH hitting OF'ers. One needs to be packaged in a trade, hopefully for pitching and/or a catcher. There is a TON of dead weight just waiting to be cut loose. Wipe the board clean and start over.

Great topic S.B. and one I consider the "opening salvo" of how the Twins can look to improve in 2023. INJURIES. That more than anything else killed the Twins in 2022. We were basically a AAA team from August 1st. Goodness, an outfield of Cave, Contreras and whoever can't win you anything in the major leagues. More than anything else, the Twins need health in 2023. The problem is, we've been saying that for several years now. Something has to change in their off-season training/preparation and in season as well. I'm looking forward to our many discussions of the 40-man roster and how the brain trust should manage it. We still have areas of strength (talented LH hitting OF'ers, 2B) and gaping holes (SS ?? Certainly Catcher, SP's that can go 6+). One of the first things I'd do is get on the phone to Toronto. They've got THREE good catchers. Top prospect Moreno, Kirk and Jansen. What would it take to pry one of them away ? With a projected starting rotation of Mahle, Gray, Ryan, Maeda and Ober, and with Winder, SWR and Varland waiting in the wings there is depth in the rotation, but what if another quality SP like Pablo Lopez was acquired ? Everyone drops a peg and you've got a 6-7 inning pitcher leading your staff. Winder, Ober and others are the 2+ inning BP options. Duran and Lopez make a fine back end. Theilbar and Jax will be back. It has the makings of a solid pitching staff. Which leaves us with SS. I've been the guy holding out hope for Correa. I still don't want to give up on that. A Gold Glove SS with 20-25 HR power and a .280-.300 batting average is pretty hard to come by. I'd give him 4-years $160 million. I'd still have Lewis and Brooks Lee waiting in the wings, but the Twins are just so much better with Correa on the team. I like what I saw from Wallner. I'm sure other teams noted him as well. With Kirilloff, Larnach, Wallner and Kepler somebody needs to be traded. I'd move one of them in a package for a Pablo Lopez type or a Toronto catcher. I'd also look at moving Polanco to solidify catcher and a #1 SP. Arraez and Gordon, maybe Lewis as well can cover 2B. I play Kirilloff and Miranda at 1B. I retain Urshela. The Twins have assets other teams would be interested in. It shouldn't be as hard as we've made it to find a solid RH hitting 4th OF'er. Finally, if Correa isn't back a Jose Iglesias type is still needed to bridge the gap from Lewis being READY to step in full time. That's my plan (kind of) and I'm sticking to it. (until a better idea comes along).

I have been consistent with my satisfaction that we signed Carlos to the contract we did and in maintaining my hope we could work something out to have him stay here. I've got no problem with his response to the question. He was honest and straightforward. Honesty is always the best policy. We have Royce Lewis and Brooks Lee on the way and another young SS (Miller?) moving up the ladder. Alas, Palacios and Wander Javier are never gonna make it. It will NOT take Brooks Lee 5 years to get to the big club. I give it 3 years. Lewis may or may not be ready next year, but as a fan, I'd just like to see him have ONE healthy season. I wouldn't be opposed to a 5-year $200 million dollar contract. It allows for Lewis and Lee to grow and at any time during the contract Carlos could be traded and one of Lewis or Lee becomes the regular SS. I think it's a slam dunk, no doubter that Correa is the best player on the current Twins team. In fact, it's not even close. Teams seldom get better when they don't retain their best player, but I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the Mariners winning 115 games after saying goodbye to Griffey, Randy Johnson and A-Rod in the span of a couple years. But I certainly feel the Mariners were the exception. Unless you're looking at a one-year Jose Iglesias type of bridge at SS there really aren't many better options than paying Correa. We're not going to out-bid the Braves for Swanson. We're not signing Bogaerts. Turner is staying with the Dodgers (he's not going anywhere). I think the best course of action is to retain Correa and FINALLY get something sustained and significant from our pitching pool of young flame throwers. Mahle, Gray, Maeda, Ryan, Ober, Winder, is a decent starting point for a rotation next year. Rather than throwing big money at a SP I'd rather retain that Gold Glove winning, clutch bat swinging SS for another 3-4 years.

For my money, the BEST uniforms the Twins have ever had are their original 1961-1971 pinstripe home and cream road. Maybe it was growing up back then with Killebrew, Oliva, Carew and Tovar, but those uniforms are far and away the best. The blue Twins script and the blue numbers on the back. I understand the desire to "modernize" and to switch things up to sell more merchandise, but the Dodgers and Yankees don't do it, so why should we. At a minimum, just for my satisfaction, they should wear those original jerseys every weekend or every Friday-Saturday-Sunday.

Amen Brother "LastOnePicked" ! Amen !!

I'm not in the camp that it's a fait accompli that Correa doesn't come back. But Lewis is a guy every one of us is rooting for and I don't think he'll let us down. Remember, Paul Molitor had all sorts of injury woes early in his career and became a Hall of famer and World Series MVP. Maybe the same fate awaits Royce Lewis. Even if Correa comes back, there is certainly a role for Lewis to have significant playing time in 2023.

He's one of my favorite Twins players on this team, but his offensive slid is just so frustrating to watch. It's true, we've had SO many injuries and with Buxton always a question mark day to day our outfield has been a mess all season. Heck, we've been starting Cave, Wallner and Contreras with a healthy dose of Gordon. Because of that, and the fact that despite his anemic offense Max is a net positive player it would be surprising to see him dealt, but if he was part of a package to bring a Pablo Lopez type of SP to the club I'd be in favor. I would still want to see him do well with a new club.

I wanted Montas. I campaigned all winter and throughout the season for him. And he's been a 2nd half disaster. So I have egg on my face over that. I can't be too critical of this front office for the moves they made. They should have traded Berrios and were wise to prioritize Buxton over him. Gray and Mahle will be valuable members of the rotation next season and we must wait and see on Paddock. Maeda will be back. And then you have young guns like Ryan, Winder and Ober. I'm beating a dead horse here, but HEALTH has been something in short supply for the Twins and throughout the minor league teams in the last couple years. They need to stay healthy. I hope the front office stays aggressive this off-season. They need to settle the Correa situation and then move quickly once it's decided.

The development of Wallner gives the Twins 3 good, young LH hitters (with Kirilloff and Larnach). I still think Kirilloff can and will be the best of them and his ability to play a smooth 1B probably makes him the most valuable...if healthy ! With this surplus, the Twins could certainly reach out to a team like the Marlins to dangle a young bat for some MLB ready pitching (Like Pablo Lopez). The Marlins also have some talented pitchers trying to overcome some injuries like Max Meyer and Sixto Sanchez who the Twins could be interested in. Miami needs hitting and has a surplus of pitching. There is no doubt Miami will be looking to trade from their surplus. it will be interesting to see if the Twins are part of their discussions.

With the Twins sinking like a stone this is a great topic. Why not let the speculation begin ? The biggest hurdle to clear when considering ANY Twins speculation is HEALTH, or lack thereof. I'm just confounded by the inability of anybody to stay healthy on this team, in the majors OR the minors. And there can be no 2023 speculation until we know whether Correa is coming back or not. It's very similar to last year with Buxton. WITH Buxton, we had a team that merited some excitement. WITHOUT Buxton, there was a hollow "hope" that the Twins would be competitive. So the Correa situation needs to be resolved. We either have a Gold Glove SS hitting in the top 4 in our batting order, or we don't. And then we proceed from there. I'm a little more optimistic with what Maeda could provide. My "hope" is that next year, health is in abundance and we finally get that mix of veterans and young pitchers creating a deeper pitching pool. The Bullpen should have solid arms in Duran and Lopez. Theilbar and Jax as well. I'd like to snag one more solid BP arm (once again, our BP was a major downfall this year) to deepen our talent there. Then it's time to assess the lineup. Again HEALTH is key. Assuming we have Correa, we have the makings of a decent lineup. Now, if we traded some young hitting for a talented SP like Pablo Lopez, that might hurt the lineup but would tremendously strengthen Starting Pitching and with a horse like Lopez, take some of the strain off the BP. It will be interesting to see where Baseball Trade Values lists the value of Twins players and others to see what trades could look like, at least theoretically.

Lopez is a good pitcher and he will bounce back, but yes, boy is he ever a hot mess right now. Even with all the injuries, I'm kind of just done with Rocco. But I think he will be back. I think the FO will also be back, but how long should their leash be for 2023? Expectations were reasonably higher this year. They DO have some exciting young talent emerging. They may need an entirely new set of trainers, medical staff, whatever, because they just can't keep ANYBODY healthy. How many consecutive years have we seen our minor league pipeline of pitchers decimated ?!? Everyone has injuries. The Twins seem to be in a category all by themselves.

I disagree with the notion that Byron Buxton SHOULDN'T be stealing 30-bases a year. With the larger bases he SHOULD be stealing 40 !! Rocco is hopeless when it comes to SB's. No team has attempted fewer than the Twins, and guys like Buxton, Gordon and Kepler should certainly be running more. I don't think Rocco and his staff coach it at all. They think we'll hit 300+ HR's every year. I swear, that first managerial year record ruined Rocco as a manager. The fans are certainly the big winners. The game should be more entertaining.

We are sinking like a stone. 2-8 in our last 10 games and it's a team wide collapse. There are enough games left with the Guardians and White Sox to pull this out, but unfortunately there are no indications that this is even remotely possible. We ARE seeing Correa shine brighter down the stretch, but it probably won't be enough. Would love to have some kind of certainty that he will be back next year, but it's a complete unknown. Let the NFL begin with Vikings vs Packers.

I like these changes. As was said by by D.C. the bureaucracy finally got something right. There are still magic moments in baseball, but "analytics" has over analyzed the game into something not as good as it once was. It's lost its "poetry." I miss the days of pitchers who got the ball, took the sign and rocked and fired. I miss the stolen base. I think I almost always unconsciously hold my breath every time the catcher makes the throw. The Twins will have problems with this stuff next year though. Rocco is the least aggressive manager in baseball history (yes, this is hyperbole). He and his staff must not value the SB at all because guys that SHOULD be able to steal bases (Buxton, Gordon, Kepler) NEVER RUN. It's all 3-Run HR's for Rocco. Part of baseball is disputing ball and strike calls, but this year and the last couple years have been really frustrating watching that little "box" and what does get called a strike and what doesn't. If they're going to continue to put that "box" up on the TV screen, just go to computer ump balls and strikes. At least that's my opinion. I also agree with whoever commented that due to teams and players refusal or inability to counter the exaggerated shifts, MLB had to step in and do something. Kepler is "Exhibit A." An intelligent guy like him should NOT be this futile against a shift. I'd like to believe he hits .270-.280 next year, but...I'll believe it when I see it.

Brooks Lee. He's the real deal. Not sure if he can stick at SS or if he ends up at 3B or 2B but he's on a fast track to the Big Leagues.

After last night's pathetic effort I'd take any and all five if they were guaranteed.

You just can't compare anyone to Vin Scully. He was the greatest ever and in doing so, everyone comes up short. I appreciate each of our color guys for what they bring. I don't think any of them are flat out bad, they each have their strengths. BAD play-by-play and color commentators stick out like someone scratching their nails across a blackboard. The Twins don't have anybody THAT bad. I like Smalley the best. He grew up in a baseball family and clearly understands the nuances of the game. I wish he was on more often. Kaat should be in the HOF as a broadcaster as well. Still hard to believe it took THAT long for a guy with 283 wins and 16 Gold Gloves to get in, but he's been a stellar broadcaster forever!! Every time he's on I feel like I learn something.

I think bean pretty much hit the nail on the head. I think Mark G. makes some very good comments too. I think Rocco's rookie year as manager, with the team setting the all time MLB season HR record ruined him. We have no ability to manufacture runs. We are completely dependent on the long ball. Our situational hitting is atrocious. After we signed Correa, I think many of us here on TD expected to contend this season and after the first month or so of the season with the White Sox floundering, felt we had a great shot at winning the division. Alas, Francona is 10 times the skipper Rocco is. And it shows in the standings today.

I agree with chpettit. I like the way Atlanta manages their roster. They identify talent and then they lock that core up for a reasonable time frame. It allows them to maintain roster consistency and cost consistency/efficiency. I also agree with others who suggest locking Mahle and Gray up for a time. We shouldn't have traded for those guys to just lose them in a season and a half. At this point, I have a healthy skepticism that ANY of our young pitchers will ever develop into anything. None of them can stay healthy. That said, "you can never have too much pitching." A staff of Mahle, Maeda, Gray and Ryan is a good starting point. Winder, Paddock, Ober, Balazovic (whose value has cratered) and others must get healthy and STAY healthy and then maybe we will find something. Remember, you can always trade pitching (especially YOUNG pitching) and get a heck of a lot back. The #1 off season priority is Correa (just like Buxton was last year). They need to determine if he's staying or going soon after the season ends. THAT will determine how they build the roster for 2023. If he's back, we have a great SS and a bat that plays in the #2, #3 or #4 spot in the batting order. If he's gone, that leaves a huge hole at SS that needs to be filled. And I don't think Lewis can be counted on at SS for 150 games. (hopefully someday). I'd still like to break him in gradually as a super-utility guy who plays IF and OF 5 games a week. Maybe a guy like Bogaerts could be signed if Correa moves on. Maybe a lesser option like Jose Iglesias, but if Correa leaves, they will need a SS. Lock up your core. Have cost certainty and then determine how much you have to spend to fill other roster holes.

I think Rocco is a computer manager. He doesn't really seem to have a feel for the game like a Craig Counsel. Rocco goes by his book and that's it. It's why he's unable to manufacture runs (300+ HR's your first year as a manager can have that affect I guess). The analytics say to do "X!" That's how Rocco manages.

Great comments from everyone. I'm with Doc Bauer on his comments. There is still a place for Max on this team. There is still a SMALL chance he could actually make an adjustment and adapt to what the defense is giving him. Games like last night are the Fools Gold for Max fans and being a fan of him, I fall for it every time. We've got Kirilloff, Larnach, Celestino, Wallner, Julien, and possibly Garlick. Someone else will step up next year to enter the mix (Martin???). I could go either way on a trade. As always, it comes down to what we would get in return and what "other" moves a trade could open up.

I'm with Whitey. I think Lopez will be just fine. He's talented. But Rocco is one of the worst managers I've ever seen due to his complete reliance on HR's to score runs. He doesn't steal bases. He doesn't hit and run. He doesn't bunt. When he does bunt, his players cannot execute. Rocco managed teams are incapable of manufacturing runs. It's why we're so impotent in extra inning situations. If a team gets that ghost-runner from 2nd to 3rd with one or zero outs it puts incredible pressure on the defense. Again, Lopez will be fine. He will bounce back. Pagan has been an unmitigated disaster. Just like Colome last year. Rocco is Rocco. I'd love to see Paul Molitor come back. But I know that's not happening.

I wonder if the Padres are worried about all the money they've committed to Tatis. Here they now have Soto, who is truly a guy to build around and I expect San Diego to do whatever is necessary to keep him a Padre for the rest of his career. But holy crap, the money tied into Tatis and Soto, no matter how talented they are could just about hamstring them in the years ahead. If we were talking New York or the Dodgers, it probably wouldn't be THAT big of a deal. But San Diego is going to be strapped.

Kirilloff and Lewis certainly rank at the top. For the rest of THIS season, it's Larnach for sure and for me Winder. I like Ober, but like Winder better. I'd take either ASAP but get me some Josh Winder soon.

I agree with wabene. Canterino's STUFF is just too good NOT to end up being a major league pitcher. Can he ever stay healthy ? Who knows, but I want the Twins to stick with this guy. Maybe he's destined to the bullpen. Maybe he could still be a starter, but baseball players can play well into their 30's so his age as a prospect doesn't faze me. His raw stuff excites me. Don't give up on him. I'm not a doctor, although I played one in a Mayo Clinic Heritage Days film a couple years ago. But it just seems like TJ surgery was coming for Matt a LONG time ago. Hope it all goes well and he's ready to contribute in 2024. I for one, would like to see the Twins move him quickly through the system once he comes back if his health and performance merit it. Let's have Matt get "major league" mileage on that arm.