TopGunn#22

I LOVED watching Bert spin his curveball. I remember Don Sutton having a good one as well. Yeah, it is a shame Bert had to wait as long as he did. The same for Tony-O and Jim Kaat. If they'd been Yankees or Red Sox. they'd have been in YEARS ago.

Good article. Points taken. I just disagree. You should never rule out trades. You should never rule out trying to make your team, and your roster, better and more complete. We need pitching. Badly. We need a SS. Badly. We have a talented player in Arraez who can be replaced by an up and comer like Miranda. If a team like the A's valued a player like Miranda MORE than Arraez, I'd consider keeping Arraez and trading Miranda. But when Baseball Trade Values puts Arraez at a value of 33.3 and Miranda at 4.5 it's kind of a no-brainer who I'm going to trade if I expect to bring back someone like Montas. I still think the Twins should inquire about Adelberto Mondesi from the Royals. K.C. has Nicky Lopez and Bobby Witt Jr. They could very well be willing to part with Mondesi. So, yeah, I'm never going to close the door on a trade if it is a trade that could help my team. But if the Twins brain trust REALLY thinks they can run multiple pitchers out for 3 innings at a time to pitch the hundreds of innings they need to cover the 2022 season, well, then we're doomed, and it might be better to find other things to occupy your time instead of watching or attending Twins games.

I agree with Doc Gast. I'm not happy about trading Arraez but Miranda can do everything he can and Arraez is one of our most valuable trade chips to acquire good, veteran, starting pitching. To me, (maybe not to the current Twins FO) it's painfully obvious that Arraez needs to be packaged to acquire that SP'ing as well as open a spot for Miranda. Honestly, you can't have a guy put up numbers like THAT in AAA, finish in last place in a typically weak division, and NOT have a place for Miranda on the big league roster with a clearly defined role and spot in the lineup.

I agree Whitey. If there is something to credit this FO with it's that we "seem" to have a plethora of pitching prospects. It's not rocket science however, to realize that not all of them will make it. SOME of them need to be packaged with young hitting talent like Arraez, Larnach, Rooker, Sabato etc...to acquire a couple of talented "Major League" caliber pitchers. Whether it's Montas and Bassitt, Lopez and Sanchez, Mahle or Gray, or Lauer, the Twins are going to need some "established" major league pitchers to pair with "some" of their "youngen's." I don't see us signing Rodon. He'll be a Dodger or Yankee or a Red Sox pitcher because THEY can afford to absorb the mistake if it doesn't work out. So the only way we can build back our starting rotation is to acquire a COUPLE of proven SP's via trade and hope for the best from Bundy and maybe Pineda and then see how they "youngen's" fare in 2022 and 2023.

Excellent article Nick, sure to bring lots of opinions. I see your reasoning and I don't think you are actually advocating for this philosophy (maybe you are) but the reasoning and the way the Twins have worked in the past is consistent with this. However, I'm going to explain why I think this is a flawed plan. Our biggest "issue" with Twins front offices in the past was that they NEVER took a risk and made a big move to put the ballclub over the top to actually have those Twins teams of 2004-2009 DO something. They were GOOD teams, with 2 MVP's (Mauer & Morneau) and a Stud CY Young winner heading the staff in Santana. But they always needed just a little more "juice" and the FO never supplied it. The 2009 signing of Hernandez is very comparable to a Happ, Shoemaker, Bundy type of signing. The difference is that Liriano, who had a spectacular debut in 2006 (2.16 ERA) had been battling injuries and ineffectiveness before he reestablished himself in the 2009 rotation. In retrospect, a BETTER signing than a bargain basement Hernandez with Liriano eventually making it back could have made a big difference. The foundation of the early-mid 2000's Twins was better, with Mauer & Morneau along with Hunter, Cuddyer and others. But this iteration of the Twins in 2022, while having a decent lineup (albeit with a couple major holes at SS and LF) is woefully short on "proven" major league pitching. The list of solid pitching prospects is long. You list a dozen of them and Chase Petty isn't even one of them. The current FO has done a nice job of assembling power arms. But for this team to contend in 2022 and beyond, they need some guys who can pitch NOW and in the future. We've seen the list of available pitchers who could have an immediate and future positive impact: Montas, Bassitt, Manaea, Castillo, Gray, Mahle, Lopez, Sixto Sanchez, and there are even a couple of Brewers pitchers that could be added to this list. The 12 young guns the Twins have that are close to the big leagues need to get some chances in 2022. But some of those arms need to be leveraged to acquire actual big league SP's (in addition to an Arraez or other big league assets). The Twins simply cannot go into 2022 with Bundy, Pineda and the "YOUTS." (that was a "My Cousin Vinny" reference, not to be confused with "Y-Outs" ). I want to see SOME of those young guns debut in 2022. But I also want to see some precise "evaluating" of what we have in the minors and some determinations regarding who is untouchable and who could/should be packaged for some proven, quality arms in a trade.

My FIRST favorite player in any sport. I will always have special feelings for a player who captivated my attention and who occupied my thoughts constantly as a young boy. So happy he and Jim Kaat finally made the HOF. I'll be in Cooperstown on July 24th to celebrate.

Good point Major League. I'm far too traditional in my thinking, but this could very well be the way it's going. Teams don't want to pay a SP half of what Max Scherzer makes while getting 1/3 of the production. One constant in baseball is that there are always only a few "Max Scherzer's" around at any given time. The Twins got Johann Santana going in the BP. The Dodgers have bounced Urias back and forth (probably not anymore though) and have done the same with Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin etc... I think fast-tracking guys like Canterino, Strotman and even Duran to the majors in a BP role like that is a GOOD idea. After 2-years of seasoning with the big club if the results are good and the team and pitcher agree, maybe they look to build his innings up and transition him to a SP role. The fact is, even though the NEED for SP'ing is acute for the Twins right now not ALL of their highly regarded prospects will pan out as SP's. It's also why I'd move a couple of these minor league pitchers if I needed to seal a deal that would return a Montas or Sixto Sanchez or Pablo Lopez. We really have an overabundance of these SP prospects. We need to give a little to get a Montas or Lopez in return.

A trade with the Cardinals could look something like this: Twins get: DeJong (SS) 4.50 Alex Reyes (RHP) 0.0 4.50 Total Value. Cards get: Strotman (RHP) 3.9 Valimont (RHP) 1.1 5.00 Total Value.

I like adding an arm or two just because you're going to run through SO many arms, you've got to have a plethora of options. I would build from the back end first. Rogers can close. But I scratch my head as to why Rocco was using Colome and Robles instead of Rogers more last year. Were the Twins trying to depress Rogers stats to make his arb. number lower ?? That's no way to manage. I would LOVE Rich Rodriguez as a closer but I would also love to see the Twins add an arm like Alex Reyes from the Cardinals. His value is LOW and the Cards have had other arms move past him. He still has tremendous "stuff." I would like to see a trade with the Cards that brings us SS Paul DeJong and Alex Reyes. Not sure what the Cardinals would be looking for but it would not cost much to pry those two away from them. Sosa seems to have beaten DeJong out for the SS position.

Frankly, I'm interested in ALL of those Marlins pitchers. Last I had checked these were the values for the following Marlins pitchers on Baseball Trade Values: Sixto Sanchez 27.5 Max Meyer 22.2 Pablo Lopez 57.1 Jesus Luzardo 10.0 Cabrea 15.0 Hernandez 5.2. They are probably not trading Trevor Rogers, Cabrera or Hernandez. Lopez would be EXPENSIVE. Probably Kepler, Arraez AND a little something extra. One question is, would the Marlins still be interested in Jeffers despite having already acquired Stallings ?? (I like sticking with Garver and getting a Jason Castro type until Rortbedt is ready). If they were, I'd go for a package of Sixto Sanchez 27.5 and Luzardo 10.0. (37.5 total). Assets the Twins could consider moving would include: Arraez 33.3 Larnach 18.9 Kepler 23.6 Jeffers 19.2 Rooker 1.7 Sabato 3.0. The Twins could also consider a negative asset like Donaldson (minus 19.2) since the Marlins would be looking for offense (although I'm inclined to KEEP Donaldson) with the possibility of the DH coming to the N.L. The Marlins have a surplus of young pitchers and plenty of holes to fill. The Twins have a surplus at certain positions and a need for SP's. We still should be heavily considering a trade with Miami.

He's one of my All-Time favorite Twins. He was our leadoff hitter. When I played, I was the leadoff hitter. I always had a special affinity for guys who hit leadoff...Tovar, Brock, Wills, Lopes, later, Molitor, Ricky Henderson. He was just a very fun player to watch and root for. For those of us who grew up in the 60's and early 70's Pepe was a gem. Put. Him. In.

My wife and I DVR Jeopardy every day and like to play at supper time...just a way to keep the brain working and functioning. My wife was her class Valedictorian and graduated college Sum Cum Laude. I was a "B" student (I married "UP" so as to insure smart children). I always complain "where's the Baseball category"?!?!? This should be a fun episode when we get to it. Amy is indeed a buzz saw!

That Manager was Billy Martin, who gave the Twins baserunner's like Tovar and Carew the Green Light to work their magic.

Kepler is the guy best suited to fill in if need be. I'm done with Cave. I would LOVE for Lewis to be the long term solution at SS. However, he's shown that he's somewhat competent at SS, 2B, 3B, and OF. A Chris Taylor Swiss Army Knife type has proven to be EXTREMELY valuable to the Dodgers. The Twins have a couple of guys with that potential in Lewis and Austin Martin. Guys like Rodriguez and Urbina have potential, but are "several" years away. Celestino needs a little more time at St. Paul but would be the next best "immediate" option behind Kepler.

I think Larnach will eventually figure things out. To what degree as a hitter remains to be seen. His upside is Jesse Winker. His downside is our current version of Max Kepler without the defense. Speaking of Kepler, the Twins are certainly assessing what his top and bottom as a hitter will be. One thing that is clear about Max: The shift is his kryptonite. Will MLB come out with a rule requiring 3B/SS's and 1B/2B's to remain on "their side" of the infield as the pitch is being delivered and also restricting how DEEP an INF'er can play ?? These types of things are being discussed as a way to "revive" offense but will they come to pass ? There's more to Kepler's struggles than the "shift" but restricting it would instantly help him. With Larnach, the sample size is too small. But I remember how clutch he was in the College World Series for Oregon State and see him as THAT kind of hitter. With Kiriloff AND Larnach the Twins always had a certain degree of redundancy. Now that Buxton is in the fold the the long term and with Martin, Lewis, Celestino, Wallner and Rodriguez in the pipeline, Larnach is the better trade chip than Kepler. The Twins, have a LOT of young pitchers coming up in their system but with few expected to have much of an impact in 2022. I think Arraez and Larnach are the best trade chips to bring in SP's for both short and long term pitching flexibility. I would have considered Jeffers as well, primarily with Miami, but that ship has sailed. Maybe Jeffers to Milwaukee. But the Twins are going to have to be VERY active in the trade market to patch some of the gaping holes in their roster and to loosen up some of the log jams at certain positions (2B, Corner OF, 1B/DH types).

The Twins have lots of "potential" SS's but nobody who profiles as a clear cut SS (other than Palacios). I like Story as an option to spend some of the money that should be burning a hole in the FO's pocket, and I also like Rodon for that same purpose. However, I think the Twins should be considering the trade market heavily for SS and SP's. With Miranda set to replace Arraez in his role (and Gordon as well) Arraez is a great trade chip to accomplish filling some of the holes the Twins have. it's NOT that I WANT to trade Arraez. It's that he's a good ballplayer at a position or "role" that we have a high degree of redundancy who could bring the Twins back "quality" in areas where they need not only quality but "quantity" as well. The Segura idea is also interesting.

I agree that Rodon is a good fit under the current circumstances and he should certainly be heavily considered. I would offer 2-years and $40 million, possibly 3-years $51 million. But I would also be ready to make a trade for another SP. Montas would be at the top of my list. Bassitt close behind. And Pineda would be an excellent guy to have in that #3 or #4 spot. Ryan and Ober will barely top 115 IP. Rodon will probably only pitch 150 innings. More bodies are needed to piece together a rotation without completely stressing the BP day in and day out. Construct a staff thru a FA signing and trades: Rodon, Montas, Pineda, Bundy, Ryan & Ober. Have Dobnak available to fill in. Then see who is performing and earning a chance at some Big League starts in-season. Balazovic, Winder, Duran, Sands Canterino, etc... It's a LONG season. With a LOT of innings. They need more than many of us think here on TD. While I would LOVE a SS, there are other options thru a trade than Story. PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING. Not just for 2022 but for 2023 and 2024. Pitchers get hurt. They come up with a sore or "tender" arm. The Twins have some nice possibilities in the minors. They are just terribly THIN at the Big League level. Go get some PITCHERS !!

Castellanos appeals to me but he'll be way too expensive. Solid RH bat that would look great hitting 3rd or 4th in our lineup. How about taking a flyer at a guy like Nick Senzel ? He's got a LOT of talent but just hasn't gotten over the hump with the Reds. Another Red that is interesting to me is Jesse Winker. He has turned out to be EXACTLY what I hoped Larnach would be. Winker would make Larnach expendable. Maybe make a trade with Cincy for Sonny Gray & Winker ?

In an earlier article that also brought up the "possibility" of trading Lewis, I had mentioned (as MikeLink45 did at the outset here) that trading Lewis when his value is at it's lowest ever---much like Byron Buxton), is not wise. I still feel that way. I think the Twins, in Arraez have a GREAT trade chip for a team like Oakland. Oakland has something I very much want: Frankie Montas. Given how certain teams like the Dodgers and Yankees ALSO have SP'ing concerns it's going to make getting SP'ing on the trade market more difficult if those teams decide to "compete" for SP's. Face it, the Twins need GOOD SP's. In fact, we're desperate. If I HAD to, I'd deal Arraez AND Lewis for Montas and Bassitt, and I'd throw in Donaldson to get Chapman. Maybe I toss an arm like Winder or Canterino in as well. THAT's the only kind of scenario I give up Lewis for. A true blockbuster to set the Twins up for 2022 and beyond. If I'm giving the A's an infielder who could be a future batting champ AND a former #1 overall pick who still has tremendous potential I'm swapping the 3B-man as well. If the A's are truly considering a major rebuild, they take on Donaldson's contract for the short term and have the Twins take on Chapman's for the longer term. They give up two GOOD SP's to get a solid bat with versatility (Arraez) and as I said, a former #1 overall pick who is just 22 years old and still has tremendous potential. But otherwise, I'm very much likely to keep Lewis than to trade him.

Tony-O was my first favorite Twin and is still my first ! I think I'll be traveling to Cooperstown, NY for the July 22 induction. MikeLink, I don't include Morris in my top Twins arms because even though it was the "MOST MEMORABLE" season, I put Jim Jerry in there instead. 1969 20-game winner, 1970 A.L. Cy Young winner and several other "solid" Twins seasons. Morris belongs in a "special" category of Twins one-season wonders (and he would be far and away #1 in that category).

I will say again, that Ryan and Ober need to be considered ONE pitcher in a starting rotation. I could see each of them pitching 100-110 innings. That's 200-220 innings. They need a COUPLE of arms. I would: Think very hard during this break what my #1 priority is NOW (now that Buxton is signed). Is it a SS like Story or a SP like Rodon. That's the BIG DECISION. I might sign Pineda first (and quickly) because ONE SP won't be enough. Big Mike is a known commodity. He will pitch to an acceptable level. Spend at least one stint on the I.L. but for the most part be "steady." If I sign Rodon, I make a trade with Oakland for Frankie Montas. It would be something along the lines of Arraez, Sabato and Sands. Then my SP is: Rodon, Montas, Bundy, Pineda, Ryan, Ober. That's 6 guys and I can lean on minor league depth for spot starts and such. I also would make a smaller trade for Mondesi or DeJong to get a SS. Both should be available because there are players who have moved past them. If I decide to go with Story instead I expand the trade with Oakland by including Larnach and maybe another smaller sweetener to include Bassitt. Then the SP staff looks like this: Montas, Bassitt, Bundy, Pineda, Ryan and Ober. I have Donaldson, Story, Polanco and Kiriloff in the IF. Garver & Jeffers catching and Buxton & Kepler in the OF. I need a LF'er. Miranda, Celestino & Martin could compete for it. I could sign a vet at a bargain price instead. That team can compete with the White Sox, Tigers and anybody else. I still have PLENTY of young minor league pitchers to evaluate and elevate as needed throughout the season and I still have Lewis, Martin and other highly thought of prospects to evaluate and elevate as needed during the season if their play in the minors dictates that and/or injuries force my hand. I will keep pounding the drum on this: We were the two-time defending division champs. We had a dumpster fire last season but we still have TALENT. We CAN and SHOULD compete for the division crown in 2022 and beyond.

Nope. I agree with prouster. Baines doesn't deserve it either but if I had to choose between the two of them, I'd take Dick Allen !!!!

A lot of times, veteran catchers on the down side of their career (thinking the Jason Castro types) who are "competent" but not "good" sort of hang around until spring training begins or so, and then they latch onto a team once said team identifies a need not yet addressed. Teams ALWAYS need catchers. This is why I really wanted the Twins to use the leverage they had with Jeffers in a trade for a SP. Jeffers has his flaws, but his value is rated such that he really projects as a "catcher of the "Now" and "future" for a catching needy ballclub. The hope of trading Jeffers to Miami for a Max Meyer evaporated when the Marlins acquired Stallings from the Pirates. However, the Brewers could use a catcher. So could the Yankees. Jeffers carries a value of 19.2. Luis Severino carries an 11.4. Maybe a trade of Jeffers for Severino and Zach Britton where the Yanks pick up some of the salary would work. Someone, not long ago wrote an article about how the Twins could make trades taking on some other team's bad contracts (guys like Myers and Hosmer from the Padres). It was an interesting idea now that the Twins are left with a pile of money to spend a few worthy FA's to spend it on. Severino would be an interesting Top of the Rotation guy and Britton could be a potential closer. I think both still have excellent upside and could be key pieces in 2022. Then I sign a Jason Castro type LH hitting catcher while Rortvedt develops at AAA.

You just can't trade this kid at this time. His primary position is one the Twins need to fill. He's versatile enough to play other places should he need to. He was the #1 overall pick and all reports are that he's a high character person. His value has never been lower. This is a lot like Buxton in that Byron's value was probably never lower prior to his extension. Lewis may never pan out. But he's an asset the Twins simply must stick with because the "upside" (like Buxton) is just too great. There are other assets the Twins can trade to rebuild their pitching staff, which is something they simply MUST do, not just for 2022 but beyond.

Very Nice Andrew. I think I "get' the criteria you're using. I'm one of those old, traditional guys who just looks at the baseball card stats and determines, more by "feel" or "the eye test" what was the "best year." Or all time team. Determining it by WAR based on bang for your buck by salary makes it pretty cut and dried, so it's not something anyone can really effectively disagree with any of your selections. For example: I could maintain Killebrew in 1969 should be the 3B. Heck he won the MVP !! But Harmon was making $100,000+ that year. Koskie was probably making close to the league minimum, Or how about Nellie Cruz in 2019 for DH ?? But as awesome as his season was he was making $14-$15 million. His value to WAR just isn't competitive at $14-$15 million. This is an interesting way to evaluate. Thanks for doing the "work" and providing it.