TopGunn#22

There are teams that are pretty locked into their positional lineup. Houston is a good example. However, the Dodgers have been very successful with players playing multiple positions: Bellinger, Trea Turner, Taylor, Kiki Hernandez--when he was a Dodger) add max Muncy to the list. It's never a BAD thing to have positional flexibility. Injuries happen. I, for some reason, have always seen Lewis as a future outfielder. Maybe he sticks at SS. But if the Twins sign Buxton to an extension, could you imagine an outfield of: Martin in LF, Buxton in CF and Lewis in RF ? That would be a VERY athletic outfield. I see Miranda at 3B, but with his ability to duplicate where Arraez plays, (and Austin Martin for that matter) I see Arraez as a valuable trade piece for pitching. I also see Kiriloff playing a LOT of 1B. But it's nice to know he's got the ability to play a corner OF spot.

I agree. The Twins can fit $7 million into their payroll for him. He's head and shoulders out BEST RP. But the Twins need to make the entire BP "better" by signing or trading for a "closer" to move everyone else down a peg in the BP. Rogers can close on occasion. But taking care of the 8th innings seems the best role for him. And he can always be traded at the deadline. Teams are ALWAYS looking for bullpen pieces at the deadline.

I expect AK to HIT. He's just a darn good hitter. Cream, eventually, rises to the top. It's also why I think hanging onto Kepler is wise. Max needs to figure out how to beat the shift. He still hits the ball HARD, it's just usually into the teeth of the shift. An off season of working on a new approach is needed if Max is to remain a major leaguer. He's already a talented defensive outfielder, something Larnach will never be. Larnach may be "serviceable," but he'll never be what Max is defensively. With other young outfielders coming thru the system, I'm trading Larnach for young, controllable pitching. With Trevor, I'm targeting the Marlins. Kiriloff isn't going anywhere though. He will be "decent" in the outfield and looks to be pretty "slick" at 1B. But it's Kiriloff's bat that will be a force in the Twins lineup for many years to come.

Yeah, the Dodgers are gonna bring back Scherzer, especially with the continual health issues Kershaw is having. Two years and $40 million per year is the kind of thing the Dodgers can afford. Not the Twins. We need a lefty. Ray at 4-years $100 million works for me. I'm curious what Eduardo Rodriguez would cost. But I TRADE for my #2 and #3 guys. I'd have my eye on Montas, Bassitt or Manaea from the A's and Alcantara, Max Meyer and Sixto Sanchez from the Marlins. Guys that could be involved in making the trades for them: Jeffers, Garver, Arraez, Larnach, Strotman and Canterino. Gotta give something to get something. let's go get some PITCHING !!

Oh...and sign Buxton.

As an addendum: No to Colome. Buy him out. Certainly look at Adelberto Mondesi as a trade possibility for SS. The Twins have enough realistic options to re-tool and contend in a winnable A.L. Central.

#1 really won't be the first thing addressed and because the Twins won't address it immediately that might take them out of an All Star SS caliber player. The fallback options like Chris Taylor, Jose Iglesias, Freddy Galvis could work (Taylor, may cost more than the twins are willing to give). Paul DeJong could be a trade option (Sosa has beaten him out). Gavin Lux might be available if the Dodgers bring Seager back for SS and Trea Turner plays 2B. Not sure if the Dodgers would use Lux as a "super utility" guy (it's a similar situation as Lewis, is a former #1 prospect supposed to end up a utility player ??). #2 In my opinion, Verlander and Thor pose too great a risk. I'd rather focus on Robby Ray, Danny Duffy, Marcus Stroman, Eduardo Rodriguez.. The Twins should certainly look to bring Pineda back at a reasonable salary. But with Berrios gone, they should invest the money they should have with Berrios into a new #1. You can never have too much pitching. Some of our prospect pipeline guys will work out. Some, surely won't. I want to see the Twins sign a #1 and then trade for young pitching with the Marlins and/or A's. With all the YOUNG pitchers the Twins have, they will all be on innings limits. The Twins need to fill the #1, #2 and #3 holes in the rotation at a minimum. If the moves they make work out, and some of the young pitching not named Ryan or Ober make it up to the big league roster next year, the Twins have an opportunity to trade some of that young pitching as it would become an area of strength and depth. Pitching ALWAYS gives you leverage when trading. # & #4 I trust Taylor Rogers to come back. But I'd listen on trade possibilities. If I was considering trading Rogers, I'd look long and hard at what it might take to acquire Josh Hader from the Brewers. The Brew Crew needs offense. Hader is still ELITE, but the Brewers have internal options. The Twins NEED a true closer. But they have the makings of a pretty solid bullpen. #5. I loved Nellie Cruz. His time here was productive and he's a great influence. Unfortunately, roster construction by our current FO has not been good. With Sano, Garver, Donaldson and a few others, they have adequate bats to fill the spot. It just seems to make more sense to rotate guys through than to invest in a guy like Nellie (even at a reduced cost). The money the Twins FO has to play with this off season needs to be invested in Starting Pitching, a SS and a Closer.

San Diego was a victim of the Giants winning 107 games and the Dodgers 106. The Twins do not play in a division like that. We SHOULD be able to compete and contend in the A.L. Central next year. That's why the Twins should keep both Donaldson and Sano. I trade Arraez to give Miranda a bigger role. Miranda has better power. Rocco refuses to just make Arraez the leadoff hitter, so I'm trading Arraez for pitching. I'm targeting the A's and I'm looking for Montas, Bassit, Manaea, Kaprillian etc... Miranda can fill the void of Arraez leaving in a trade. The Twins could go BIG and look for Montas, or look for a couple arms like Bassit and Kaprillian. The Twins need starting pitchers, more than they need Arraez in the lineup. With all the young arms the Twins have, guys will be on innings limits. Our roster this past season was "uneven." This off season the FO needs to correct that.

I am in the "Keep" Donaldson camp. He's "worth" far more to the Twins than what he would bring in a trade. And despite my ongoing desire to trade Sano, as a "negative" value (like Donaldson) he too is worth more to the Twins than what we would ever get in a trade. Guys like Arraez and Jeffers are the guys I'm leveraging (and a couple minor league arms) to improve the Twins major league level pitching. The Twins really don't have to "shed payroll" in trades to improve the team. The FO "plan" should have been to pay Buxton, pay Berrios etc... all along. Now, with Berrios "gone" the FO has even more payroll flexibility to work with. Miranda will get his chances. But keeping Donaldson will allow the Twins to ease Miranda into the lineup. In fact, trading Arraez to improve our SP will allow Miranda more opportunities than selling Donaldson off for cheap. Once the twins are approaching next season's trade deadline we will see where this team is at. But every effort should be made this off season to COMPETE for the division crown in 2022.

One other name I've thrown out there and forgot to mention is Paul DeJong of the Cardinals. He's effectively been beaten out by Sosa. DeJong is a very good glove who hits with power as a SS. He's too much an all or nothing slugger in some ways and health has been an issue (like Mondesi) but if the Twins can't swing big for Mondesi DeJong wouldn't be a bad fallback. Trading Charley Barnes for him straight up seems to work on BTV's. Not sure what DeJong's salary is, but he's a decent fallback option.

I think the Twins have a lot of intriguing In-House options but they DO need a dependable guy on the back end. it pushes Rogers, Duffey and everyone else BACK one more slot and solidifies the entire bullpen. I think a guy like Cory Knebel could be lured from the Dodgers with the opportunity to a CLOSER again. Frankly, I see the Dodgers keeping Jansen. Knebel wouldn't cost Kimbrel type money but could prove to be every bit as good. Knebel, Rogers, Duffey, Alcala, Theilbar, Minaya, That has the feel of the foundation of a potentially pretty good BP. And there are others who could potentially do well for the Twins next season (maybe Duran??). But it all flows from the guy at the back end. Signing a Knebel and/or trading for a Dylan Floro/Anthony Bender type (Marlins pitchers) would add length and depth to a Twins BP that has the potential to be good, but needs a little somethin' extra to get there.

As much as I know we need a SS and as good as this crop is, I've been pushing the idea of a glove guy like Iglesias or Galvis and investing more in upgrading our pitching staff. Now another interesting idea has popped up here in TD and that is pursuing a trade with the Royals for Adelberto Mondesi. He's only 25. Has great talent and tremendous speed. He just can't stay healthy. The Royals moved Nicky Lopez from 2B to SS last year and he played very well. The Royals have Bobby Witt jr waiting in the wings as well and NOTHING is stopping him from becoming their SS for YEARS (and maybe as soon as June or July next year). So Mondesi is available. I've suggested a Canterino & Strotman trade for him. He's a much better fit for the Twins as he's arbitration eligible but still has two years of team control. And trading him leaves the Twins better flexibility to sign Buxton and a top-shelf FA SP. It doesn't have to be Canterino & Strotman, but if I'm the Twins FO, I'm talking to the Royals and making every effort to get something done. Inter division trades are "difficult." But we should be on this idea.

Well, I was all prepared to write a detailed opinion and then I started reading Doc Bauer's. Yup, Yup, Oh yeah, I agree with that take too...and well Doc just covered all the bases exquisitely. Thank you Doc !! I do think they need a #1 to fill the spot Berrios had. To me, that means someone Like Ray, Stroman or Gausman. I like them in that order. Robbie Ray has tremendous stuff. I think Gray is a good #2 to go after and I still like Eduardo Rodriguez. But I think TRADES could bring them back a couple nice young arms that could push Gray to #3 or #4. And what's wrong with that ?? Ryan and Ober will be on innings limits. Pineda would help if he could give them 140-160 innings. I just think building a stable of 6-7 guys with possible mid-season reinforcements like Balazovic, Winder or Duran should be the plan. That's why guys like Canterino, Strotman and others should be considered in trades. We have a surplus. Could you solve the SS hole with Canterino and Strotman to the Royals for Adelberto Mondesi ?? It's certainly worth considering. Guys like Arraez, Jeffers, Rooker and some of the minor league pitching talent are in play when considering trades. As Doc so capably pointed out, the Twins just can't go into next season with uncertainty. They should be aiming to compete for next year's division title given that the division, while improving, is just there for the taking. Every year. There are MANY opportunities for this FO to retool. They need to take advantage of them and make some bold moves this off season.

mikelink45: I should have probably made this more clear in my post. I would TRADE for two "good, young, starting pitchers" and only sign one FA for "somewhat" big bucks. Someone like Stroman, Eduardo Rodriguez etc... Minny505: I don't mind your comment at all. You're not attacking "ME" you're pointing out a "flaw" in my logic. I rec'd you for that. I'd just clarify that even though I liked Tom's original post, I may not agree with 100% of it. I am NOT opposed to trading Buxton if it improves the team. But if I'm using Baseball Trade Values Buxton is terribly undervalued right now. We're not getting CJ Abrams for him straight up, much less have them throw in Mackenzie Gore. The Red Sox moved on from Betts, and it's worked out. But they still haven't really seen tangible value for the trade at the major league level other than Verdugo, who had a "decent" but not an "outstanding" season. I just believe the Twins MUST sign Buxton. it's why I listed it #1 and emphasized it. But in a winnable division like the A.L. Central and only this season's disappointing last place finish following two consecutive division crowns, I don't want a major rebuild and I think the opportunity is there for this front office to re-tool and compete in 2022.

Great points Tom ! And the Giants faced nearly insurmountable odds with the mighty Dodgers and the trendy Padres in their division. And yet, the Giants won the division and in a winner take all game tonight could put a stake thru the heart of the invincible Dodgers. The Twins on the other hand, have worthy competition in the White Sox, Indians and up and coming Tigers. But to say the twins must "rebuild" to compete against the teams in THEIR division is just too defeatist for me. I would say the Giants and Red Sox front offices just rang rings around Falvey and Levine last winter. Are the Pohlads satisfied with that ? The blueprint of what the Twins front office needs to do is pretty clear: #1 Sign Buxton. Sign Buxton. Sign Buxton. #2 Either thru trades or FA bring in at least 3 SP's who are not bargain basement/garage sale caliber like Happ/Shoemaker. We've discussed names and will continue to discuss potential Twins SP targets throughout the winter. #3 Find a SS. Either a lesser quality "big name" like Javy Baez or more likely someone who is a stopgap for Lewis/Martin like a Galvis or Iglesias. Or, trade for someone like Paul DeJong of the Cardinals. (Sosa appears to have beaten him out). #4 Bullpen. I believe they have plenty of arms that could work out. I want them to find a "true" closer. Let Rogers and Duffey have the 8th inning. let Rogers close on occasion. They need a back end guy who's reliable and that pushes all current arms back one inning. Whether that's Kimbrel or someone they acquire in a trade (Bender or Floro from the Marlins) ?? #5 Find a reliable 4th OF'er. No more Cave. No more Refsnyder or Garlick. Find a RH bat that can play the OF. Celestino MIGHT be that guy.

I agree tony&rodney. Rortvedt may need a solid year at AAA but he's a Twins catcher going forward either in late 2022 but certainly for 2023. Myself, I value Garver more than Jeffers because of the offensive ability but until MLB Trade Values places more value on Garver, I'm trading Jeffers and Larnach for Alcantara. Or Jeffers and Larnach for Max Meyer and Sixto Sanchez and Anthony Bender/Dylan Floro (potential closers). And I agree with the A's as a potential trade partner but they don't need a catcher. I could see Arraez and Canterino for Frankie Montas. With Carlos Rodon's "shoulder issues" and his less than stellar 2nd half, I'm cooling on him as a potential Twin FA signing. I'm leaning more toward an Eduardo Rodriguez type. 4-years and $15 million per year could possibly work. If the Twins added Ed-Rod via FA and acquired Alcantara and Montas their starting staff would be Alcantara, Montas, Ed-Rod, Ryan and Ober. If they brought back Pineda that's a 6th guy and they could conceivably limit Ryan and Ober's innings. Throw Dobnak into the mix and there's the makings of some "depth." I think a rebuilt pitching staff like that could put the Twins in the mix in 2022. And the division is not Dodgers, Giants, Padres strong. We SHOULD be able to compete. Each of Alcantara, Montas and Ed-Rod are YOUNG. If Balazovic, Duran and others develop then you have true pitching depth.

I've commented on this several times as well. With the Marlins as a trade target, the Twins have both Garver and Jeffers who should be VERY interesting to Miami. MLB Trade values currently has Garver at 18.1 and Jeffers at 27.9. If the Twins are looking for someone like Sandy Alcantara it would take Jeffers and Larnach. I'd do that. If the Twins are willing to go for someone like former Golden Gopher Max Meyer (28.1) Jeffers in a one-for-one swap pretty much does it. If the Twins want to go BIG and ask for Meyer AND Sixto Sanchez (9.5) then a little something extra would need to be added with Jeffers. The thing is, Jeffers is a solid defensive catcher with power (14 HR's in under 300 PA's) whose younger with more years of team control. The Marlins catching situation is a disaster and one they will need to address this off season. Is Jeffers really worth more than Garver ? I don't think so either, but it depends what the Marlins think. With Rortvedt about a year away, I see the Twins dealing Jeffers and picking up a Jason Castro type for a backup. The Marlins have an embarrassment of riches with young pitching and a black hole at catcher. Larnach is just the type of young hitter a team desperate for offense should take a chance on. I'd hate to part with Larnach, been a fan ever since I saw him get clutch hit after clutch hit in leading Oregon state to an NCAA baseball title. But his value is much higher than Kepler's, so Kepler is worth more to the Twins at his currently depressed value, making Larnach available. Maybe Max figures out what he needs to do to hit better, maybe not, but the Twins can't trade guys like Kepler or Buxton when their current value is so low. I trade Jeffers to the Marlins in a package for young SP.

It would be great if all or most of those things pan out. I'll add two more: Austin Martin makes the team out of spring training with his defensive versatility and well rounded offensive game giving the Twins an on base machine at the top of their order to replace the traded Luis Arraez who brings back a solid starting pitcher with multiple years of team control. Martin eventually settles in at Left Field where his defense invokes memories of the Royals Alex Gordon. Jordan Balazovic discovers how great it is to be healthy all the time and wows in April and May, first in AA and then at AAA for St. Paul. After his first June start for the Saints in which he throws 7 shut out 2-hit innings striking out 12 he is moved to the Big Team where he impresses with a performance that earns him Rookie of the Year votes while flashing #1 starter stuff. With a couple of solid veterans fronting the Twins rotation and Balazovic, Ryan and Ober holding down the #3, #4, and #5 spots the Twins reclaim the division from a talented White Sox outfit who fire Tony Larussa after another 1st round playoff exit. The Twins meanwhile, exorcise all their Playoff winless demons and cruise thru the post season without losing a game in route to winning the the World Series over the mighty L.A. Dodgers in a 4-game sweep. "How Sweet it IS !!!"

Nice Article !! I especially liked the link to the next 3 years of potential free agents. It's good for reference. While I would love to bring Nellie back and there is no doubt him hitting 3rd or cleanup would benefit our lineup, I believe all significant resources need to be used toward beefing up the pitching. The Twins (like ALL baseball teams) compete when they PITCH. When they don't pitch, it doesn't matter how good the lineup is, historically, they will struggle. And any resources left after they improve the SP's and BP should be used for a RH outfield bat (Mark Canha or if they go big, Starling Marte) and a stop gap SS (Iglesias, Galvis etc).

Kepler: His value has never been lower. He's worth more to the Twins to keep at this point and try to work with his hitting approach and improve his offense. I trade Larnach instead who has more "value" but may never be a better "player" than Kepler. Garver: His offense looks like it's back. I keep him, and trade Jeffers instead, whose "value" is higher than Garver's anyway and would bring back better pitching in a deal. I go out and sign a Jason Castro type and let Rortvedt continue to develop at AAA. Sano: I have been advocating trading Sano for 2 years. That said, he's another negative trade asset. Unless the DH coming to the N.L. greatly improves his value, the Twins are better off sticking with him for one more year if they bat him #7 in the lineup and move him between DH and 1B. If he shows signs of coming around in 2022 you could deal him at the deadline or simply buy him out at seasons end and move on. It depends which Sano you get in 2022...1st half 2021 ? Or second half 2021 ? Arraez: One of my favorite Twins. But one of our PRIME candidates to be traded for pitching. Polanco is a far superior 2B-man who could play a game or two at SS if need be. Arraez is 2B, 3B and LF. We have LOTS of other options at those positions. TRADED for PITCHING. Donaldson: He had a pretty good year but again, is a negative trade asset. he's worth more to the Twins than shedding his salary. Josh could always be moved at the deadline as well. it will depend on how 2022 is going for the Twins and Josh as well. I think the Twins can certainly compete in the ho-hum A.L. Central in 2022, so I keep Rogers and Duffey. RP's are always more valuable to acquire at the deadline any way, so hang onto them, see how 2022 is going and make decisions at the deadline. Buxton: Gotta sign him. PERIOD. Some of our minor league talent: Some of these guys...Duran, Canterino, Winder, others, need to be considered in deals to bring talent that is closer to the majors than they are.

In fact, here's a trade for everyone to chew on: Marlins get: Jeffers 27.9 Larnach 28.7 J. Duran 6.9 63.50 Twins get: Max Meyer 28.1 Sixto Sanchez 9.5 Watson 25.0 62.60. Marlins get their catcher of the future and a corner OF bat in Larnach (they need offense desperately) and Duran, a lottery ticket that with health could prove to be an excellent throw in. Twins get a young SP with great potential in Max Meyer (and a Minnesota Boy) and their own lottery ticket in Sixto Sanchez who could be electric if he can stay healthy as well as Watson, a highly rated SS prospect. The values work out to be a fair trade. Full disclosure: I know NOTHING about Watson other than he's a SS prospect and he's valued at 25.0. That interests me. Lewis & Martin are not locks for SS. They may be OF'ers. Watson is purely a SS. I don't know how old he is, what level he's currently played to or his relative strengths and weaknesses. I just know he's blocked by Jazz Chisholm and he makes the trade fair.

The Twins can certainly be competitive in 2022. We compete in the A.L. Central for Pete's sake ! Not the N.L. West where 106 wins gets you SECOND PLACE !! I've been suggesting a trade with the Marlins for quite a while, but the trades suggested on this thread don't even come close and the trade that I had suggested now doesn't either. Garver may be a better hitter than Jeffers but his value is much less (Garver 18.1 and 30 years old, Jeffers 27.9). I had suggested a trade of Jeffers and Larnach 56.6 total value for Alcantara 56.6 total value according to Baseball Trade Values. Unfortunately, they've been UPDATING their trade values and Alcantara just shot up to 74.50 !! Now, the Jeffers and Larnach deal isn't even close. And Trevor Rogers?? He's at 96.7 !!! He ain't going anywhere. So as much as I was sure the Twins could swing a deal for Alcantara and sign a #1 for $20-million a year or so, that's not looking good (at least the Alcantara part). But as others have pointed out, Miami is STACKED with pitching prospects. Max Meyer 28.1, Sixto Sanchez 9.5 (health issues) Pablo Lopez 53.8. It looks to me that the Twins should use Jeffers and Larnach (56.6) and look for 2 of Meyer, Sanchez or Lopez. If Lopez and Sanchez the Twins would have to sweeten with a Canterino. If Meyer and Sanchez the Marlins would need to send something extra. I'm not sure about the health of Sanchez, that's why he's valued so low, and while I love Max Meyer, is he ready to step right into our rotation and be a #3 or #2 ? I'd prefer two vets at #1 & #2 and Meyer, Ryan and Ober at #3-#5. Guys like Donaldson (-34.7) and Sano (-11.2) are NEGATIVE trade assets, which is why you have to keep them unless you trade for someone else's negative trade asset and take on as much salary as you're dumping. It's why the twins are probably better off keeping both of them, at least for now.

The Twins simply MUST find a way to make Buxton happy with a reasonable "Base" salary and million dollar dollar escalators for every level of games he plays. For Example: 12-million per year for 7 years. $2 million bonus for 100 games played. Another $2 million for 120 games played. Another $2 million for 140 games played. $5 million for American league MVP. $3 Million for a top three finish. It doesn't have to be THIS example. But this is where the conversation needs to be. If Buxton PLAYS he will be PRODUCTIVE. If he doesn't play, he will still be decently compensated and the Twins have a measure of protection. It was tough to see Berrios go, but as badly as the Twins need PITCHING, Berrios is in no way CLOSE to Buxton in overall value. Buxton has MVP potential. Berrios will never win a CY Young. I agree with Gunnar Thor's assessment: The Twins have enough payroll flexibility to go after TWO top line SP's. They are simply replacing what Berrios should/would have been paid and then they can afford another one. They need to go HARD after two top shelf SP's. As far as Ortiz: Buxton has true talent. He won't need to go full on PED'S to amass stats that show his worth. He just needs to stay healthy and PLAY. If he plays, the Twins will be very happy with their investment. The Twins are not that far from being a solid contender again. Look at the S.F. Giants. They won 106 games because they signed Gausman and DeSclafani among others and got bounce back seasons from Posey and Crawford. We signed Happ, Shoemaker and Colome. If the Twins FO makes a plan and executes it by going after the right players through FA and trades, and the Pohlad's allow them to spend what is necessary the Twins will be right back in the thick of a very winnable A.L. Central.

TNtwins85...I understand your question if you're referring to Donaldson. He's worth more to the Twins to keep than try to move him as a negative trade asset. However, if you're wondering about guys like Arraez, Larnach, Jeffers, etc...you would trade proven guys on your major league roster where you have a surplus (2B, C, Corner OF) to acquire proven major league talent at a position of need. In the Twins case, SP, BP and possibly SS. One of Garver or Jeffers needs to be dealt. Rortvedt would be an acceptable backup and he bats LH. MANY teams are REALLY weak at the catching position. Dealing either Garver or Jeffers gives the Twins a great opportunity to acquire a proven major league starting pitcher who they (the Twins) desperately need. We have a BUNCH of guys who can play 2B. One of them (Polanco) is an All Star caliber 2B. Arraez is our most valuable trade chip. You've got to give something of value to get something of value. We can part with Arraez to add much needed pitching without damaging the lineup for next year and the future. Guys like Gordon and possibly Austin Martin will be ready. Deal from strength to shore up a weakness.

Whoops ! Should have proof-read. SS Galvis/Iglesias, Polanco, Gordon, A. Martin