TopGunn#22

Jones has kind of come out of nowhere for me. I have to admit, focusing on 14th/15th round draft picks is tough. My eyes are kind of glazing over by that time. The kid is on a roll, and he would be an interesting addition down the stretch. Guys like Taylor Rogers are doing nothing for the Twins. It's past time to shake things up. PLEASE promote Jenkins already. It's time to get the kid up here and put him in CF.

I'm not too disappointed about Gausman, but I am about Foster Griffin. I think that is just a case of Cleveland's FO out working ours. Taylor Ward would have been an interesting short term add. Able to play CF, good OB% at the top of the order, good potential power, especially against LHP. But to get Ward, other moves would have been necessary...trading Larnach, maybe Wallner or even Roden. As I said in a previous thread, to have not put together a package of Jeffers and Larnach to the Yankees for a substantial haul was an epic failure for our FO. The Yankees desperately needed Jeffers. Instead, they ended up with Mitch Garver who has be way below average since a stellar 2019 season. That's SEVEN YEARS of BAD. The Yanks OF is in tatters. No Judge, No Bellinger, even no Stanton. A deal should have been made. Buxton was never going anywhere. For good or bad, that's the way it is. Ryan's arm issues made it tough to even consider a deal. Now, it's better to either deal him this winter or just hang onto him. But I would have considered Foster Griffin a big upgrade over Kremer and the price could easily have been bettered by the Twins if the FO had been on the ball. I think it's a trade and trade partner they just hadn't considered. But Cleveland did.

I wanted us to take a run at Neto. But if the opening ask was Jenkins and they wouldn't budge I guess that was rightfully so, the end of the conversation. With Houston, Neto would never have stayed at SS. And putting Culpepper in the equation would have put either Soriano or Detmers in the deal (probably Soriano). We were right to walk away from any deal with the Angels.

Interesting article. I think we will revisit this topic more than a couple times during the coming off season. I think the expected compensation for Ryan with a 4-5 year extension is certainly in the ballpark. I also agree that the possible return on a trade is well thought out. Which is ultimately disappointing. It is certainly easy to 2nd guess, but the time to have traded Ryan was last winter and when you look at the proposed compensation for a trade this off season it pales in comparison to the Red Sox "Tolle and Arias" trade. Heck, just drop Arias altogether and just make it a Tolle for Ryan trade. The Twins were not expected to contend in any way in 2026, but here we are 3 games behind the division leading White Sox and only 1.5 games out of the final Wild Card chasing the Texas Rangers. This is classic Monday Morning QB'ing, but I was pushing strongly for a Ryan trade last winter. And if we HAD made that trade we might even be in a better position today if all we'd gotten was Tolle. Tolle: 7-6 3.20 ERA 1.10 WHIP 143 K's in 123 IP. 23 years old. (Left Handed SP) Ryan: 6-8 3.65 ERA 1.14 WHIP 138 K's in 126 IP. (Soon to be making $20-$25 million per year at age 31.) We blew it, plain and simple. Stack everything up and disregard the age and cost in the future. The Twins FO blew it. I am very skeptical of Ryan signing an extension, just as I'm 100% sure Jeffers won't either. Ryan should have been traded last winter, and Jeffers should have been traded to the Yankees. Both the Twins and Yankees blew that one. The Yankees are still playing .136 hitting Wells at Catcher. They blew it worse than the Twins.

Well...Jenkins just mashed 2 HR's for St. Paul last night. The longer Buxton is out, the more it looks like they could use a "spark." I would also argue, even once Byron comes back, he should DH plenty of times and maybe play LF (with Jenkins in CF). Last night's win was a nice comeback, but once again the bats were struggling mightily, One run after 7 innings and that run came on a Lewis solo HR. If the Twins are REALLY competing, as an organization, for a playoff spot THIS year...it's kind of hard to deny it's time to call up Jenkins and Culpepper, DFA Gray and send Roden back down to St. Paul. It's August 7th. Every game counts at this point and going forward. I'm not sure what the advantage, service time wise, that holding Jenkins and Culpepper back has. But I think the Twins need to make these moves and get those kids in the lineup.

From my point of view, when the owner stepped in and nixed the Larnach for Abreu deal, the Twins FO should have been smart enough to pivot to Spencer Arrighetti, a 26 year old RH SP with upside potential. I would have still made the deal for Hoffman, but Arrighetti would have provided a similar arm to Matthews and he is still pre-arb controlable. The Blue Jays swooped in and traded Dalton Varsho straight up for Arrighetti. Varsho is a far better Glove than Larnach, but Larnach would have been the far superior Bat. And the Astros needed a BAT more than they needed a Glove. The Twins could have added both Kremer and Arrighetti as well as Hoffman and decided to put Zebby Matthews in the bullpen. Hoffman, Gomez, Minter, Morris, Funderburk and Zebby (with Nance and minus Taylor and/or Adams) would have been a massive upgrade. (they still DID massively upgrade the BP). A callup of Jenkins to replace Larnach and Culpepper replacing a DFA's Gray would have followed. That, to me, would have been a better trade deadline.

While I don't completely agree with Mike8791 I "Loved" his comment because it's well written and there was much to be in agreement with. My only disagreement was that I WAS disappointed the Abreu for Larnach trade fell through. I give the FO credit for pivoting to Hoffman but as a guy who has been a big Dasan Hill fan (his command and control issues this season aside) I was sorry to see a young LHP with his "potential" sent away. Kudos to Toronto for taking a chance on him. I still think (rightly or wrongly) that despite the obvious problems on offense and trading a solid producer this year in Larnach, that the promotion of Jenkins and Culpepper would jump start the moribund offense. I'll admit, it's risky to depend on rookies, but we all know the glaring holes this current roster has. For the Twins to make the playoffs this season, it was always going to come down to a rookie or two (Jenkins and Culpepper) to come in and provide a spark down the stretch. This is even more true with the current status of Byron Buxton. We're seeing just how much this offense struggles without him. He's the team MVP by far. I don't think trading Larnach and Jeffers would have affected this offense nearly as much as losing Buxton for any length of time. The other great point the op made was that the Twins were guaranteed having Hoffman next season. Abreu would have been a FA. But if Abreu had come in a trade for Larnach and had a great run with the Twins then it would have put tremendous pressure on Pohlad and Zoll to sign him this off season. And I'm not sure they would have done it. Bottom line: We gave up a young LHP with tremendous potential to finally acquire a true Closer following last years "Red Wedding-esque" bullpen decapitation. I'm on board with the end result even while having trepidation over sending Hill out to accomplish this badly needed move.

I completely agree with your rankings Hawkeye. Jenkins should be getting promoted very soon and Lackey at #1 makes sense. But rankings really seem to downplay defense and for SS or CF this is crucial. Houston will always have a positive impact on a game with his defense. But with a revamped swing that is bearing much fruit, he's absolutely an MLB Top 25 prospect. I would be happy with a promotion to St. Paul for him once Culpepper is promoted, but I wouldn't be disappointed if they left him in AA. He has time to keep polishing his game. An August callup next year would be fine with me if he finishes the year at AA and continues his progress for a good portion of next year at St. Paul. And some of this might come down to how well Culpepper does at SS and with the bat once he gets called up.

You make a good point DJL44, but I agree with Greglw3. Jenkins is our top prospect, Culpepper either #2 or #3 depending on your opinion of Vahn Lackey. Adding players who were DFA'd for a reason is not the future and it may not even be any kind of help for the present. Now that we're into August, I don't think service time is much of an issue for either Jenkins or Culpepper. Their athleticism and energy could provide a spark. I don't see much a spark provided from Garver, Soler or Refsnyder. Swapping out Jenkins and Culpepper for Roden and Gray seems to me to be quite an upgrade. There will certainly be some "rough moments" with the young guys, but they could also have some positively impactful moments. At this point in the season, I'm willing to role the dice on that (in a purely Strat-O-Matic Baseball sense). :)

I'd much rather get Jenkins and Culpepper up. It's time to go with youth rather than look at one-dimensional DH types. Garver was never a plus defender at Catcher. Soler is well below average in RF. Refsnyder is marginally better in the field than Soler. But there is a reason each of these guys have been DFA'd. They are terrible this year. Soler was pretty bad in 2025. Garver hasn't been good since 2019. They are not the future. Jenkins and Culpepper are. As howeda7 suggested, call them up and send Gray and Roden to St. Paul or DFA them if they are out of options.

I know Hill was struggling with control this year, but I still hate giving him up. If he turns it around next year he will be the steal of the deal. To have given up what they did, I am thinking the Blue Jays might be paying Horrman's salary for the rest of this season and maybe some of it in 2027? Especially after we gave them back some International Signing Money. Still, I like that the Twins have a "True Closer" in Hoffman for the rest of this season and 2027. Their back end of the BP is somewhat stable now. That will help greatly this 2nd half and next year. Still think it's very frustrating they failed to take advantage of dealing Ryan Jeffers in a catching frenzy market. How could we not come to some kind of agreement with the Yankees? I can't believe the Yanks are considering playing Ben Rice full time behind the plate. Now, Jeffers walks with no where near the compensation we'd have gotten if we could have traded him. Larnach is another head scratcher. They barely decided to extend him an offer this off season, and he goes out and has a career year, maximizing his value. They have Jenkins, Em-Rod and Gonzalez coming. Where does Larnach fit with this team in 2027 and beyond?

I would trade Culpepper in a package for Neto. Neto is a legit 30/30 candidate and he's a pretty good SS. Some of these defensive "metrics" are so contrary it's ridiculous. One says he's negative 8 runs, another says he more than solid. I've seen him play. He's better than anyone we have by far except for Marek Houston. As I've said a couple times already. The other advantage the Twins would have with Neto vs. Culpepper is that Neto PLAYS. He played 155 games 2 years ago. He's played 107 out of 111 games this year for the Angels. Culpepper has to overcome his injury issues to truly reach his ceiling. His history gives me reasonable doubt he never will. That's why I would include Em-Rod in a deal for Neto that would include Reid Detmers. The Twins need to add guys that PLAY.

The indecision of the Twins ownership and FO is showing. They never have a plan and here we are again...the opportunities to improve the club are disappearing minute by minute. They just don't seem to have the courage to make a deal of consequence. Jeffers to the Yankees at this point should be a no-brainer. Re-open the Larnach to the Astros for Bryan Abreu with fire in your eyes. Don't let an owner with ants in his pants spoil a deal that would help both teams. I love the idea we are pursuing Zach Neto with zeal. He's 26 years old, a GOOD SS and a guy with 30/30 potential. He's already been close to 30/30 twice in his young career. Yes, he strikes out too much, but he's the SS for the rest of this year and as much of next year as needed until Marek Houston is ready. Then you've got a Gold Glove caliber SS and a Gold Glove caliber 2B. We're 90 minutes away from the deadline. At least go get Neto. Especially with Byron Buxton probably on the I.L. for several weeks.

The injury issues of Buxton (he was never going anywhere, but he's vital to Twins success) and the "tired arm" of Joe Ryan have really messed up the Twins deadline. So far, they've added a solid RP in Minter and a SP in Kremer who has struggled the entire season, but has shown to be a competent #4 or #5 in past seasons. It certainly seems like something bigger is coming, but finding out about E-Rod being hurt AGAIN takes a tantalizing prospect off the table for the Twins. Not trading Jeffers to either the Yankees, Cubs or Dodgers/Red Sox would be FO malpractice. With Joe Ryan off the table, Jeffers is clearly their best trade chip. It's too bad the Larnach for Bryan Abreu trade fizzled. Abreu, even though he's having a down year, would have been a great arm to have in the bullpen. Jeffers and Larnach remain the Twins best chance to bring something good back by dealing from organizational strength. Maybe the trade of Larnach for Abreu can be revived. I expect both Jeffers and Larnach to be traded today. To fail to do so would be disappointing. 2026 is slipping away with no Buxton in the lineup and Joe Ryan has to get right for the Twins to have any chance of a playoff spot.

I think the Twins have to overpay to some degree. There should certainly be competition to land an arm like Greene. We would expect an overpay for Joe Ryan. But I think the deal you've proposed above would be more than fair Mike. I would certainly do it to preserve a Lee-3B, Houston-SS and Culpepper-2B infield for a potential future rotation of Greene, Lopez, Ryan, Bradley and Abel/Prielipp. (Look at that potential rotation)!!! That could more than compete in the A.L. Central, especially with Skubal heading to the Dodgers). If Ryan is not part of this rotation in 2027 it means he's been traded. Then you have to consider the rich return a Ryan trade would bring. Also not factored in (because it's purely a hypothetical at this point) is what the Twins could be adding with trades of Jeffers and Larnach. But with a 2026 rotation containing Ryan, Greene and Bradley, and with the potential rotation in 2027 (with or without Ryan) the infield talent and the OF talent with an imminent arrival of Walker Jenkins and in a year or 2 the arrival of Vahn Lackey behind the plate and in the lineup...and that's a pretty exciting future for the Twins...whether the Pohlad family sells or not.

I agree that Culpepper at 2B with Houston at SS and Lee at 3B would make a very good IF. But Hunter Greene in the Twins rotation would be better.

I dropped Hunter Greene's name in a thread a couple of days ago about the Twins possibly talking to the Angels about a couple of players. I'm glad to see this as a stand alone topic and to join the conversation. I realize a lot of people are very attached to Kaelen Culpepper. I like him a lot too. But when you have Marek Houston on track to replace Culpepper at SS within a year of Culpepper's promotion, and you have Brooks Lee very capable of playing 2B or 3B (and you've got Clemens for another season or two) and Culpepper is the key to bringing in a young Ace who's affordable (even by TWINS standards) for the next 3 years AND your latest Pohlad brother saying "Go BIG or GO Home" THIS is a deal worth pursuing. Others have laid out what the potential Twins rotation would be for a playoff run as well as 2027 and beyond. It's enticing. Even if Joe Ryan wasn't a part of it in 2027, whatever is received back in return for Ryan would certainly bring a "Culpepper-like" talent back. This is why I emphatically advocate for a move like this. Somebody always has to suggest the initial trade proposal. Mathew Taylor did, and it spurred further discussion. I think it was a reasonable suggestion but others have made good suggestions as well. I wholeheartedly agree that it will need to be a GOOD package to get it done. The Reds aren't giving Greene away. I'd start by saying Culpepper is the cornerstone. De La Cruz is the Reds SS. So Culpepper is being moved to either 2B or 3B right away. Neither Hayes (3B) and Mclain (2B) have set the world on fire. The Reds would be interested by this. Not knowing the current state of the Reds farm system, if it was the Twins in a reversal of circumstances, I'd want TWO pitchers to hedge my bets on eventually having a replacement for Greene. Let's say Quick and maybe spinning Bailey Ober for an immediate replacement. I'm including Em-Rod. He's still an excellent piece and with our glut of outfielders we could withstand the parting. It's a very fluid situation. The pieces the Twins could give up are many. Jenkins, Houston, Lackey. Those 3 are not available. But the Twins should be willing to talk about just about everybody else. If we were trading Joe Ryan, we would be expecting an overpay. This is the kind of move where the Twins should expect to overpay as well. But the return would set up a Twins pitching staff for the next 3 years minimum. Greene in the rotation allows for a good starting pitching arm like Matthews to move to the bullpen. It would not need to be a permanent move (witness Griffin Jax). But Matthews in the pen brings a pretty good arsenal. If Greene misses starts, someone like Matthews, Abel or Prielipp would be poised to fill in. The Twins don't have to make a move for Greene. But he checks a LOT of boxes for the kind of "Go BIG or Go Home" kind of move current ownership is claiming they will make. Greene would be a big addition for 2026 and for 3 years beyond. I say Go For It !!

Notably absent in this discussion is Ryan Jeffers. I would expect he would be needed to make any kind of deal to bring back an impact RP or a starter. (or both) The Yankees are still the team the Twins could be dealing with and with their injuries to OF's both Jeffers and Trevor Larnach could be in play. The Yankees have a surplus of SP, especially with Carlos Rodon set to come off the IL in about a week. The idea of getting Bryan Abreu for Larnach straight up would have been exciting. I would have liked to know why the Astros backed out. They certainly need Larnach's bat. But Abreu is only 29 and has been a stellar reliever with the exception being this year. He struggled right out of the gate as the closer when Hadar began the season on the IL. But in the last 4 years he's been a 100 K RP (except for one season of 88 !!) and has been dominant. I would like to see the Twins revisit the talks and give a little more to close the deal. Abreu would be just what the Twins need to close games. There's also a chance the Twins are still talking to the Angels as well. So far, very little has been given up (with the exception of the "potential" for Reyes). It just feels like there is something BIGGER brewing for the Twins. Not having Buxton in the lineup right now complicates things as does Joe Ryan's "tired arm." But with names like Abreu, Neto, Luke Weaver and others being bandied about, it's going to be an exciting 24 hours.

I disagree, respectfully. In any trade, it depends what you get back. In Neto, the Twins would be getting a player who has a higher ceiling than Culpepper (unless you think Culpepper has 30/30 potential as soon as 2027). In his first full season, Neto hit 23 HR's and stole 30 bases. Last year, he hit 26 HR's and stole 26 bases. He's 26 years old and stepping into his prime. Neto would help the Twins immediately. Especially with Buxton's injury status. Neto is also a better SS. He's already a solid Major League SS. There are still questions about whether Culpepper can stay at SS. But most importantly, as I've stated, Neto PLAYS. 107 out of 110 games so far this year. In 2024, he played 155 games. Culpepper has talent and potential, but he can't stay healthy. (Yet...)

YES, Neto is better than Kreidler. Not to denigrate Kreidler, who is clearly the best SS on the roster now, but Neto is a budding 30/30 guy who is a GOOD SS. With Bobby Witt Jr. hanging around, Neto may never win a Gold Glove, but he plays a very good SS. Once Marek Houston is playing SS for the Twins, well, it's Game On Bobby Witt Jr. :)

If the deal was Culpepper and Tait for Neto and Detmers I think I would do it. Culpepper is necessary to bring back Neto. Neto is 26, Culpepper is 23. Those 3 years mean Neto will cost more sooner but Neto is already what we hope Culpepper can be and Neto still has plenty of room to grow. He's a 30 HR 30 SB guy. I'm not sure Culpepper, while talented, has a 30/30 ceiling. Plus, Neto is a better SS and Neto PLAYS. 107 or out 110 games this year and 155 games in 2024. Neto plays SS immediately for the Twins and in late 2027 or by 2028 when Houston is ready, you shift Neto to 2B and have one heck of a middle IF. So then it comes down to Tait for Detmers. Tait was a key part of the Duran trade. In some ways you hate to give up on him. Detmers is just 27 years old. He's had his ups and downs for the Angels over his 5 plus years with them, but the stuff is excellent. Sometimes it just takes a bit of time to click, especially with lefties. Adding Detmers to the rotation is crucial with the uncertainty of Joe Ryan's future. That applies to right now with Ryan's tired arm and for 2027 and beyond. But with drafting 2 catchers #1 & #2 who were college players and having Jimenez in the system as well, along with the idea that Tait may eventually have to move off of catcher to 1B (Tait may be a less talented version of Ivan Hererra with the Cardinals) I think I'd also be willing to gamble Tait for a long-term starting rotation piece. I think this trade could be fair, but it would be nice if someone could post a BBTV version of this to see if it's close or needs something more from either side. BBTV's is not the be all, end all. But it's at least a way to see if you're even in the ballpark.

That's what I'm wondering as well Fatbat. I'd work a possible trade out and post it if I had was willing to pay for the opportunity to use BBTV. But I'm not and I don't. So without having some kind of honest idea of what players could be valued at, I'd just be throwing names out there. Doc Bauer has posted trades on BBTV. I used to be able to go there and just look at what guys were proposing, but then they restricted that as well. But there did seem to be some steam to the rumors and with all those guys sitting last night, that just adds fuel to the fire. If I was a GM, this type of deal would be what my goal would be. Something impactful for this year, 2027 and beyond. Not trading for an injured Dean Kremer who might have several bad starts that cost me 2-3 games.

Hunter Greene is a name who jumps off the page for me. The Reds may be willing to move on and his stuff is electric. He's got to stay healthy, but other than Detmers, most of the guys we've mentioned are older and probably only short term rentals. I would definitely want to have a conversation with the Reds about Greene and see if I could live with the price. Arms like Greene and Taj Bradley are the BEST kind of gambles to take. With the max effort required for pitchers on every pitch nowadays, I wonder if a 6-man rotation is going to eventually become the norm. Especially for guys that can really "bring it" like Bradley and Greene.

The idea that Culpepper, E-Rod and Gonzalez all sat last night and may be involved in possible deals is interesting. I would be OK giving one of them up if it was the right deal. There was speculation yesterday that the Twins might be talking with the Angels about Zach Neto and either Detmers or Soriano. In a deal that would bring a legit #2 or #3 SP to the Twins rotation as well as an excellent 26 year old SS I said I'd give up Culpepper. Some agreed with me, some didn't. But if I could add Neto's bat (with the probability that Buxton is on the shelf for several weeks) and a solid SP who could be a rotation guy in 2027 (Detmers) then I certainly would give up some real minor league talent. Neto steps right in solves the SS problem and hits at the top of the order. In a year and half, maybe 2-years when Houston is ready, Neto moves to 2B and probably plays Gold Glove defense there. Houston is a Gold Glove candidate as soon as he is a Major Leaguer. That would be QUITE the up the middle keystone combo. Neto is already what we HOPE Culpepper could be. The difference is that Neto PLAYS. He's durable. Culpepper, for all his promise, has to prove he can overcome his injury bug. Add Detmers to this year's and next years pitching staff (and for 2027 purposes, a healthy Dean Kremer) and the Twins have some talented depth in their rotation that allows them to gradually build up some of these young arms like Prielipp, Zebby, Rojas and more. A blockbuster like this would deplete the farm somewhat, but in the off season, it gives the Twins great flexibility to either sign Joe Ryan to an extension, or, if he's not willing, trade him for a haul. You could still have a rotation headed by Pablo, Bradley and Detmers with plenty of talent competing for spots #4 & #5. And that could include a nice SP in the mix that would come in a Joe Ryan trade (think a Payton Tolle type even though that ship has sailed). We may be reading far too much into those guys sitting last night, but maybe a blockbuster with the Angels is in the works. Maybe someone who has BBTV can post what a trade could look like involving Zach Neto and Reid Detmers?

In the bigger picture, I would have liked to see the Twins aim a little higher than Kremer. Gausman has been mentioned, and I'd add Robbie Ray. I realize Reyes is a pure lottery ticket. He's got some very nice potential, but he's light years away from the major leagues, if he ever even gets there. But Kremer is so much like the Shoemaker and Happ moves of the past. In a playoff race in the "here and now", the Twins are just not getting the Kremer of previous years. You don't give up 12 HR's in 36 innings unless something is not quite right. Kremer might help them next year, but I fear he will kill their chances THIS year. I would have preferred a Robbie Ray/Kevin Gausman type of move where I gave up something good and threw in Reyes to seal the deal. Either of those pitchers are good enough to put in a playoff rotation with Ryan and Bradley. I'm not sure where Kremer even falls in a playoff pecking order. If they were going to make this kind of move, this is where Tom Pohlad needed to "go big or go home." He didn't need to land Tarik Skubal. But we should have aimed much higher than the current edition of Dean Kremer.