TopGunn#22

Doc, I totally agree Kaat should also go in as a broadcaster some day. I'll tell you, Oliva was just a treat to watch hit. He was all coiled up and when his swing uncoiled it was smooth and "wicked !!" As a kid, I used to scour the box scores in my local paper each night just to see how many hits Tony-O got. I would read the ENTIRE box score. But the FIRST place my eyes would go was to: AB Runs Hits RBI Oliva RF 4 2 3 3 And then I would scan for extra base hits: Oliva 2B-2 (36) HR-1 (22) Ahhhh, the memories. Trov, great point ! I remember many years ago, looking at Oliva's stats on the back of a 1972 baseball card. It had stats that went thru his 1971 third and final batting title. His career average was .313 and in the pitching dominated era he played in, that's pretty. darn. good. Clemente, Rose, Carew, there were only a handful of guys who were better. That HAROLD BLEEPING BAINES got in before Tony-O is criminal. That Kaat won 283 games and 16...SIXTEEN Gold Gloves and had to wait this long is frustrating. But all the frustration and angst over the injustice of them not being elected while others (not as deserving in my opinion, WERE) is gone. washed away like a warm summer rain. I believe my wife and i will be driving to Cooperstown N.Y. from Rochester this coming July. Maybe I'll see Tony-O and he'll sign a picture for me that says H.O.F. 2022. What a great feeling for long time Twins Fans.

Fantastic Topic Doc Munson ! I've been considering this as well, just not in the more insightful topic you've introduced "The Salary Floor" sure to come from the new CBA. My whole approach to this Twins offseason has been to scheme ways in which they are competitive right out of the gate for 2022. In the A.L. Central, and just one year removed from having won back-to-back division titles, I don't think the FO should consider anything LESS than competing in 2022. One of the prime ways to do that is to take on bad contracts. Doing this adds players who have talent. They just don't perform to what their "cost" is. It's kind of like Kirk Cousins. He's played very well this year. Yesterday he converted a late turnover into what should have been the game winning TD drive, only to see Zimmer's defense give up the game losing points in the end (for the FOURTH time this season). Kirk is not a $40 million player, but in today's sports world this is the norm. Guys like Myers (LF) and Hosmer (1B) would fill big holes for the Twins both in the field and in the lineup but would also allow us to add a young player or two of tremendous talent/potential by taking on those contracts (Abrams, Gore, Weathers). It's the dirtiest way but also the quickest way to rebuild the talent. You could swap an Arraez or a Lewis or Martin to maximize the haul, or swap out lesser pieces but you have to be willing to take on the salary for the period of time before their contracts expire. I'm not sure how much time Myers and Hosmer have left and what the per season cost is (about $20 for each I'd imagine, Hosmer a little more, Myers a little less) but that's the price of poker. It's an interesting scenario that is waaay outside what Twins ownership has ever considered. But it SHOULD be a consideration.

Great point Doc Munson. Puk is one of those "buy low" get great production type of gambles the Twins should be actively pursuing. Ideally, Puk would be in the starting rotation. But he could also be a key BP piece as well. Maybe a change of scenery is just what he needs. I've considered players like Clint Frazier (already snapped up by the Cubs) and Miguel Andujar and other similar players as buy low/high upside signings. Andujar would give the Twins a "potentially" solid RH bat who could play a little 3B, 1B and LF. Admittedly, that conflicts with what Miranda could do. But if Andujar ever got back to hitting like his rookie year it would be a great acquisition. Maybe the league has figured him out. Maybe it's just been the nagging injuries. But guys like him and Puk and really been hampered by those nagging injuries. Maybe good health unlocks the tremendous potential each have.

I have never been to Cooperstown, but have always wanted to go. My wife has heard me say dozens of times with hope in my voice "If Tony-O ever gets elected, we have to make the drive from Minnesota to Cooperstown, N.Y. and be there for the ceremony." Well, we will probably be making the trip this July. This is so wonderful for Tony-O AND Jim Kaat to be going in together. I'm also happy for Buck O'Neill (a better ambassador for baseball there has never been, although Tony-O and Kaat are his equal) and I'm happy for Gil Hodges and his family. Tony-O was my FIRST ever favorite player in any sport. I was 6 years old when he won Rookie of the Year and 7 when the Twins played the Dodgers in the World Series. It was when I became a lifelong baseball fan and always will be. Those are magical years for a kid, and there will always be a special "magic" for Tony Oliva with me.

You might be right about them wanting to run a kid out at SS "In My La Z Boy" but I think Story and Donaldson while similar, are also much different. Both are good RH hitters. Guys you generally can count on to produce. Story plays a much more premium position (SS) than Donaldson (3B) and he plays it at an elite level. Story is a darn good SS. Plus, Donaldson has had injury concerns for virtually his entire career. Story does not. So there are similarities, but also differences. And Dr. Gast, I agree that Lewis and Martin could become super-utility types and that's what I would see from them when they first come up. But I don't think the Twins would limit them to that. Martin could very well develop into a heck of a LF'er who could play some CF to spell Buxton. Lewis could still turn into a pretty good SS while also becoming valuable as a guy who could play all around the field. Remember, Chris Taylor has played a lot of SS for the Dodgers when Seager had been hurt. Story may eventually move to 3B and Lewis become the SS after 3-4 years. The Twins may draft a kid who is a tremendous SS prospect as well. it's hard to project 3-5 years down the road. But what I'm trying to do is put the Twins in a competitive position for 2022 as well as beyond that with a Story signing and the blockbuster trade with Oakland for BOTH Montas and Bassitt. And the Twins have the assets to remake and even out their roster if they have the guts to do it.

I agree Cody. The Twins DO have money to spend. They've signed Buxton to a reasonable contract that protects both him and the team. They've done nothing to replace Berrios and the money he would/should have been making. So in my opinion, it comes down to this: Do the Twins spend on starting pitcher Carlos Rodon and assume all the risk and reward that would come from such a commitment ?? Or do they take that money and invest in Trevor Story ?? If it was up to ME, I'd sign Story and make a blockbuster trade using Arraez and Larnach to bring Frankie Montas and Chris Bassitt over from Oakland. Things have come to a screeching halt with the expiration of the CBA but that's what I'd be working on. Sign Story for 5 years and $125 million. Trade Arraez, Larnach, Sabato, Cole Sands and Thorpe to the A's for Montas and Bassitt. It's a lot to give up and the Twins could lose Bassitt after the 2022 season, but they need an arm like Montas to replace Berrios at the top of our rotation and who will be under team control for a couple years. The Twins also need a quality arm like Bassitt to bridge the gap from opening day 2022 to whenever arms like Balazovic, Duran, Canterino, Winder and Woods-Richardson are ready. The ability to add an arm or two via free agency has passed in my opinion. And a pitching staff of Bundy, Ryan and Ober just isn't enough. The above proposed trade is worthy, as judged by Baseball Trade Values, but I'd even go a little higher and swap some players out and swap in a Canterino, Winder or Duran if I had to. They are all great prospects, but the Twins need a starting rotation NOW for 2022. And there would be nothing preventing the Twins from working on extensions for Montas and Bassitt as soon as we acquired them. For the short term, Montas and Bassitt are affordable. But with all the young talent coming, even if minimum salaries go UP in the new CBA the Twins could have an affordable pitching staff with guys like Montas, Bassitt, Bundy, Ryan, Ober, and possibly Pineda if he's also brought back on a reasonable deal with guys like Balazovic, Dobnak, Woods-Richardson, Duran, Canterino, Winder and eventually Petty possibly being in the mix in mid-2022 and further down the road. Story gives the Twins an All Star caliber SS to pair up the middle with Polanco and Buxton. In this scenario the Twins still have Garver, Jeffers and Rortvedt behind the plate. That's a strong up the middle defensive core and Story's bat in the middle of the lineup doesn't hurt one bit. The best FA pitching options are gone. It's time to invest that money in a long term SS like Story and build the rotation through some bold trades. Would 5-years $125 million get it done ? I don't know. But I'd sure as heck find out.

The allure of Rodon is obviously TALENT. But since the Twins would never dream of actually PAYING to get a Star Quality SP then the other side of the coin (Health) could work in the Twins favor. Boras is tough to deal with, but maybe a 2-year $40 million dollar contract gets it done. The Twins aren't on the hook for a long term contract but there is the potential for elite production. Remember, Rodon was the first half of the season Cy Young. He was nothing short of awesome. I offer that contract and see what Boras does. Then, instead of trading for Bassitt I trade Arraez, Cole Sands, Sabato and Thorpe for Frankie Montas. Then I sign Big Mike. Rotation in 2022: Rodon, Montas, Pineda, Bundy, Ryan, Ober. Dobnak and Balazovic are in the minors providing depth. (as are several others). Maybe I bring back Gant as well. Now I have two potential All Stars heading my rotation with young pitchers pushing for their chance by mid season. My lineup is still relatively intact. By signing Rodon, I have to give up on the Trevor Story dream, so I work a deal with K.C. for Mondesi or the Cards for Paul DeJong. Neither should cost an arm and a leg, but both K.C. and the Cards have other guys who are ahead of Mondesi and DeJong. KC has Lopez and Bobby Witt Jr. and the Cards have Sosa. Mondesi has great potential but is very injury prone. DeJong has his flaws but he's a solid glove who hits with power. These are deals the Twins FO could certainly make. As Nash has eloquently stated...you don't lock Buxton up long term to waste even one year of that on "rebuilding." Now that this FO has committed to Buxton, the idea is to maximize what we can accomplish while he's in his PRIME. To do anything else just wouldn't make any sense. The Twins FO has made a bold FIRST STEP. Can they follow through and make the additional moves necessary to make the FIRST step pay off.

You're projecting 3 FULL seasons from now. I expect there to be greater roster turnover by then. Yes, Buxton will be in CF and Polanco will probably be at 2B but too many of our current players are in your 2025 projection. I'm not down on Larnach. Far from it. I just see Larnach being dealt for SP'ing. I see Rortvedt as the starting catcher. And maybe Trevor Story as our SS. We have no idea who the Twins would have drafted and who would have matriculated up to the Big leagues quickly. Maybe we sign an international player who explodes in the minors and is the next Juan Soto ?? I like the overall topic, but looking three FULL seasons ahead you need a crystal ball, and none of us have that.

Jamie, GREAT article ! You're identifying great options and providing great "grist" for discussion. And again, I find myself wondering if tony&rodney is some long lost brother I never knew. And I agree with Ron Coomer who also opined "why not TWO of Oakland's pitchers. I will mention yet again, that Ryan and Ober SHOULD be considered as ONE SP. Innings limits puts the Twins hoping they can get 100-110 innings out of each for a total of 200-220. In "the old days" we would refer to that as ONE pitcher. tony&rodney nailed it. Make a blockbuster for Montas AND Bassitt. Arraez is a talent, but we have Polanco firmly entrenched at his primary position and Miranda on the way to replace him in his role. I like Larnach as a prospect and he could develop to be a VERY GOOD major league hitter. But I'm willing to give up Larnach to improve our pitching. I depart from Kipp35's thinking. He makes good points and backs them up with sound reasoning. But I see it differently. I make the blockbuster trade tony&rodney suggests for Montas & Bassitt in a heartbeat! In fact, I also think I'd up the ante a little more with Oakland if I had to as well to close that deal. (your suggestions to up that ante are very reasonable tony&rodney). Starting Rotation: Montas, Bassitt, Bundy, Miami SP, Ryan/Ober. (with young pitchers percolating in the minors) Lineup: Largely Intact and bolstered with an All Star Caliber SS. Garver catching, Kiriloff, Polanco, Story, Donaldson around the infield. Buxton flanked by Kepler and ? in the OF and Sano the primary DH. And a Bullpen that could use a closer but that has good potential. Despite what the White Sox and Tigers have already done (and may still yet do) this is a Twins team that could compete. And we have more talent in the minors on the way. All at a $120 million budget as tony&rodney laid out. It's clear the BEST SP's on the FA market are gone. Rodon is too big a risk. But THIS PLAN retools the Twins to compete in 2022 and beyond with enough talent added thru trades and investing the money that could have gone to FA pitchers in an All Star caliber SS. Brilliant !!

With the inability of the Twins to add SP'ing of any significance in the FA market it is probably time to sign a SS. The best option to me is Trevor Story. Correa ain't coming here (he's probably heading back to Houston) and the others are just filler. Villar is a good offensive player, but I'd want a better glove at SS. Simmons...been there, done that. Galvis. Iglesias ? O.K. if you'd already added Eduardo Rodriguez and Jon Gray/Michael Pineda to your pitching staff. But if I'm the Twins and I have money to spend (which they most certainly do) I'd rather spend my money on Trevor Story than a risky Carlos Rodon. Once I've signed Story, I can focus on where I want Lewis and Martin to eventually play, cause it ain't gonna be SS. Story would also look pretty good hitting #3, #4, #5 in the twins lineup. Story & Polanco up the middle with Buxton in CF is a pretty strong defensive/offensive core. Another reason the Twins should sign Story: They have young pitching percolating in the minors and very close to coming up. Trade for Bassitt/Manaea type SP's to bridge to when the young pitching arrives. Or make a BIG deal for Montas.

Yeah, for a team that entered the off season with signing Buxton as their #1 priority (yes, it's done, glad about that but it took waaaay too long) and rebuilding the pitching staff as a clear #2 (with a SS also needed) the Twins FO approach of "slow and steady as she goes" is just maddening. Rodriguez was the move I wanted with a couple SP's acquired via trade and one guy, like Bundy, for a low risk/high reward type of signing (although THAT guy for me was Andrew Heaney). Rodon is head and shoulders above anybody else left, but there is a HUGE injury risk for him. The $18 million annually SEEMS about right, but ohhhh, that shoulder scares me. Especially with the White Sox not being all over bringing him back. What do the White Sox KNOW ??

The Twins certainly DO have some assets to deal. And they have value. The issue with the Twins is that they have a glut of talent clustered around less important positions (but positions that MAY be important to certain teams). I put Arraez at the top (33.30 He has a higher trade value than Jeffers 19.2 or Garver 10.9 on Baseball Trade Values. I would have put Jeffers second but that was primarily for Miami who now have their catcher of the future. So that puts Kepler 23.6 and Larnach 18.9 next. Polanco has the highest value at 45.6 but I'm not trading him. There are good SP's to be had in the trade market with varying lengths of team control. Unfortunately, all our glorious speculation will come to a halt until the "Business" end of baseball is taken care of.

I tendered everyone but Cotton. All the others have earned what they would be getting. We have the makings of a pretty decent bullpen if we can just get a "stopper" at the back end. I'm bringing everyone back and trying to get Cotton on a cheaper deal.

Good point cjm0926 ! It would make more sense to re-imagine the trade for Peraza.

Ray would be my #1 target Mike 8791, but Rodon at 3-years and $60 would be a great move and allow the Twins to have an "Ace" at the top of their rotation (if indeed Rodon is first half 2021 all year) while also allowing some young pitchers to develop and ascend to the major league roster. My formula for the Twins pitching staff: A Big FA signing like Ray or Rodon, a secondary signing like Jon Gray and a trade or two that brings in 2-3 additional SP's. They need a minimum of FOUR SP's since Ryan/Ober are really just "one slot" in the rotation. Now that Buxton is done, the Twins FO needs to pivot FAST and make some noise.

Well ! This is just what the Doctor order ! (not sure if that's Dr. Gast or Doc Bauer) !!! A big chunk of faith in our FO is restored for me, except if I can nitpick, WHAT TOOK SO LONG ?!?! This is JUST the type of contract that benefits both the Twins and Buxton. NOW: We need to acquire some pitchers !! But the biggest question of the off season is answered and the FO can get busy. To me, this shows ownership and the FO believe they can compete for the division title next year. And being in the A.L. Central that should be the expectation. They have 3 days to make another splash before things come to a screeching halt. Wonder what their next move will be ??

I had the same thought Karbo (no relation to Bernie Carbo ??) Kepler and another highly thought of prospect (maybe Jeffers ?) for one of their young SS's and Severino. I think Severino is a great "buy low" candidate. For a team like the Yankees, the pressure to win (and win big) is always a trump card that has to be played. Can the Yanks be patient with Severino ? Can they be patient with both of their young SS's ? The Yanks are TRYING to employ more patience recently, but they haven't won a World Series since Jeter. JeeTah !! And it's true the Yanks also need a catcher. If we added our SS of the future (and possibly the NOW) in a deal with the Yanks and bought a lottery ticket with Severino I would be O.K. with that trade. I'd want to sign Severino to a guaranteed 4-5 year contract to make sure we had him for more than 1-2 years though. So here's your trade: Yankees get: Kepler 23.6, Jeffers 19.2, Canterino 9.6, Strotman 3.9, Wallner 3.6 and Rooker 1.7 = 61.60 Twins get: Volpe 46.4, Luis Severino 11.40, and Luke Voit 3.1 = 60.90. This opens up a possible trade of Sano or Donaldson.

Plus, the players that cheated got PAID. That should be all the "reward" they are allowed. Look, I'm a very "traditional" kind of guy. The whole PEDs thing just has always rubbed me the wrong way. My son, whose opinion I respect a lot is of a different mind set, played High School and Legion baseball against some guys whose bodies certainly changed a little too rapidly for at least "some" suspicion to linger. We debate this in a good natured way all the time. I've even given him an autographed Barry Bonds bat (after I acquired a Hank Aaron autographed bat) and told him "you can keep the Bonds bat or sell it, but you can't sell it until he's elected to the HOF because the bat will be worth a lot more once he is." I think eventually ALL the cheaters will get in. I think if they do, an *asterisk* would be appropriate. I will say, that no matter what, it's hard to ignore what Barry Bonds accomplished. Of all the cheaters, he did the most with it. In looking the list over, I wondered why Schilling's name was on it. I don't recall ever hearing his name mentioned as a PED cheater. And as an American, he's granted the right of free speech. It's a right that is fundamental to our Republic. Anyone is free to agree or disagree with what he says because we're "Americans." If he had pitched in China, he'd already be disappeared and there would be no talk of him for any Hall of Fame or any other purpose for that matter. He'd be gone and all memory of him would be erased. But he's an American. He's also one of the greatest post-season pitchers in the history of baseball. He should already be in.

Why the Twins FO has dithered on this for so long is a question the average fan cannot answer. Remember when we Twins fans basically had the conversation "If you had to choose between Buxton and Berrios, who would YOU choose??" Well, it was a spirited debate but I believe the winner was Buxton. It wasn't "massively" in favor of Buxton, but he WAS the player most here on TD would have chosen. And this was with our starting rotation in a total shambles. The reason Buxton won out was because his talent (when healthy) is top 10 in baseball. Berrios was no where near a top 10 pitcher. So the Twins "appeared" to make their choice and traded Berrios to Toronto for two very nice looking prospects. I believed the trade was a good one at the time and I still do. Time may prove me wrong, but Martin and Woods-Richardson could be outstanding players for the Twins in the future. Now however, the Twins FO seems to be stumbling and bumbling with what that strategy was supposed to be. As fans, we still have no idea how they and the Pohlad's view this team for 2022. There is nothing close to a "clear vision" coming out of the ivory towers of Twins leadership and I'm not sure ownership or the FO sees that for the problem it is. We play in the A.L. Central. There is no reason, given the talent still on the team and the resources that could be leveraged, that the Twins SHOULD be a contender in 2022 despite the fact that the White Sox are "ALL IN" on burying us next year and for years to come. Buxton is the key to everything. he's the type of player that should be the foundation of what the Twins want to be for the next 8-10 years. He appears to be coming into his own. You can just tell when you see him at the plate...this is a different cat than what we've seen previous. He is confident and has a plan. Remember when Paul Molitor kept getting hurt early in his career. And then, he just kind of cleared that hurdle all the way to a Hall of Fame career, helping the Blue Jays to back to back World Series championships and being named World Series MVP in one of them. I believe Buxton is going to clear that same hurdle and be relatively healthy going forward. This ownership and FO need to step up and get this deal done. As I mentioned earlier, the lack of clarity from both as to 2022 and their vision is dumping water on any fire there might be for 2022. When a two time defending A.L. Central team crashes and burns to a last place divisional finish, the FO and ownership need to be correcting the flaws and making moves to get the team in a position to fire up the fanbase. Failure to do this will ensure a disaster revenue-wise for the team next season. Fans will continue to be soured on the commitment of ownership and the FO to not only provide a good team/good product but to keep good, homegrown talent on the roster. And wasn't that the entire premise of building Target Field anyway ??

I agree Dr. Gast. that's how I value them as well. It depends on what the ownership and the FO have assed as the Twins "chances" in the division for 2022. If they want to challenge for the division, they should go for a blockbuster and swing this trade: Arraez 33.3 Rooker 1.7 Varland .50 = 35.5 for Manaea 18.5 and Bassitt 17.0 = 35.0 I'd probably throw in another prospect and make it a slight overpay. This trade is to add both QUALITY and QUANTITY (because the Twins need BOTH). Then I would re-sign one or both depending on how well they pitch and how the young SP's in the system are developing. If I'm aiming more for 2023 I do a different blockbuster: Arraez 33.3 Canterino 9.6 and Strotman 4.5 1.7 = 47.7 for Frankie Montas 44.1. Montas is the best of the bunch and he's controlled for a few years so no stress to resign him immediately after the 2022 season. Adding Montas to Maeda and whatever SP we aquire this off season as well as the continued development of our young SP's could prove to be a very competitive rotation in 2023. But is Buxton in Minnesota or somewhere else ???

Heck, just popped over to Rotoworld and lo and behold the White Sox have signed Kendall Graveman for 3-years $24 million total. I guess with Liam Hendricks they needed a closer more than we did. It was also noted that the Mets "have eyes" for Taylor Rogers. Finally, there was NO mention of anyone the Twins were interested in because according to our Front Office: "We're still getting our plan and priorities in order." I suppose we can check back with the Twins FO in a couple of months. Maybe closer to spring training or possibly when they are ABSOLUETLY sure there is indeed a collective bargaining agreement.

Didn't realize that Maeda and Suzuki were former teammates on the carp. That doesn't hurt at all. I'd still rather take a chance on Clint Frazier for cheap and save more money for pitching.

I am a firm "NO" on Ortiz because of the steroid issue. He used the stuff, plain and simple. So I'm against anybody with that taint getting in. That said, I realize I'm a minority opinion. My son is of the exact opposite opinion and we have good back and forth conversations about it. I figure guys like me will eventually be drowned out by the prevailing opinion. When that happens, I agree with with tony&rodney...the first guy that has to go in is Barry Bonds. What he did (while cheating in my opinion) is "RUTHIAN." In fact, it should really be called "BONDSIAN." Nobody did what Barry Bonds did, so he has to be first in line. Then stinkin' A-Rod, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, Manny Ramirez, Palmiero, Ortiz, and all the rest of the cheaters can see the gates of heaven opened to them. But Bonds goes in first. Have the Twins signed a PITCHER YET ?!?!?!?

It always comes down to cost and how the team employs their resources. I haven't seen anything noted about a "ballpark" for what it would take to sign him. Keeping in mind that pitching is the primary asset that needs to be acquired thru trades and FA he would certainly be a nice addition. But pitching and SS would be bigger priorities. Since signing Buxton is STILL the #1 off season priority (or as we here on TD certainly feel that way) I'd like our FO to get off their fat behinds and make some QUICK progress on Buxton and a pitcher before the weekend.

I agree 100% with Ace Wrigley and have been thinking about Clint Frazier being released by the Yankees ever since rumors were swirling that it might happen. Why our FO felt the need to "lock up" Cave when a player of Frazier's potential would eventually become available is mind numbing. Personally, I believe the Yanks are giving up on Frazier too soon. It's a classic case in the Big Apple of just churning thru players far too quickly. Frazier has 30-HR potential and is capable of playing at least as good a CF as Cave. He would be a PERFECT buy low candidate for the Twins as a 4th OF'er who COULD end up as your starting LF'er and possible backup for Buxton. My question beyond Cave is this: What are Falvey&Levine waiting for ?? Sign Frazier and either dump Cave (unlikely now) or Thorpe. I'm tired of the bargain bin diving, but Frazier is JUST the type of gamble this team needs to take with a pitching staff in shambles.