TopGunn#22

I see the lineup like this: Vs a LHP Vs a RHP Miranda LF Buxton CF Buxton CF Polanco 2B Polonco 2B Kiriloff 1B Correa SS Correa SS Sano 1B Kepler RF Kiriloff RF Sano DH Sanchez DH Gio 3B Gio 3B Miranda LF Jeffers C Jeffers C I have a LOT of faith that Kiriloff will be exciting this year. Kepler is a Wildcard. With no shift (or "limited" shifts) will he be an everyday player ? And I have a LOT of faith in Miranda. Make him the LF'er right now. He can move around as the season progresses. Arraez goes to Oakland with some young arms to get Montas (and maybe even Manaea).

Oh. My. God. This is FAN-TAS-TIC !!! What a bolt of LIGHTENING ! I have to admit, I was getting nervous when the Giants and Red Sox were sniffing around Story. And for the Twins FO to have pulled this off. Unbelievable !! The best headline was about the Yankees desperately wanting Correa, and then making a trade that essentially set the Twins up to steal him from them. Now, lets go out and get Montas and get ready to battle it out in the A.L. Central. I don't miss Isaiah Kiner-Falefa anymore !! I tip my hat to the twins Front Office.

Nice Job Jamie ! Good discussion as well.

Amen Nash ! This is what I've been pushing for ALL off season. Doc Bauer pretty much laid out every point I would have. In my mind, you make the deal with the Yankees to make a deal with Oakland (or Miami or the Reds) to get that other stud SP to head the rotation with Gray so that your "youngen's" have some leadership and MUCH less pressure. To tie this all together, you MUST sign Story or Correa (and it's clear Story is the guy). Can they pull this all together ? In theory it's a great plan, but requires some heavy lifting. I've been guilty of being pretty down on this FO for quite awhile. Last year's failures were in some respects unforgiveable. The White Sox FO just outworked and out hustled ours. The Sonny Gray trade was a master stroke and built some of my lost trust back up. I think many here on TD are selling Urshela short and Sanchez is a potential 30-HR catcher who's a mystery wrapped in an enigma. But for the first time in a long time, I can actually reason through a possible "PLAN" this FO has and it's interesting with all kinds of potential. Does Buxton need to stay healthy?? Darn right he does. Do the young pitchers need to flash some talent ? Darn right they do. But if the FO can finish this race with a strong kick and deliver us Trevor Story and either Montas, Castillo or Sixto Sanchez/Max Meyer I will salute them for a great effort.

My first thought when I saw this story pop up (and after I got my head to stop spinning) was that this MUST be the prelude to a Trevor Story signing. Why else make these moves unless you intend to move Donaldson's $$$ off the books and add Story to the payroll, changing out a Gold Glove caliber 3B-man in Urshela and a solid glove at SS in Story. Urshela is very similar to Kiner-Falefa defensively without the speed but with more consistent power. Sanchez is a power bat, probably too similar to Sano but with 30-HR potential.

Health is ALWAYS a major consideration. Especially with guys like Buxton, Polanco and Donaldson being such keys. You can even include Arraez in that list if he isn't traded. But I've been saying for months, we play in the A.L. Central (it's not the same as playing in the N.L. West). MLB has expanded the playoffs. And despite last years debacle, they had won two straight Division Championships and still have a core that could compete. Plugging the SS hole with Kiner-Falefa (who is NOT a BAD hitter, just not a 25 HR SS) and getting Sonny Gray are very good moves. At this point, I'm trading Arraez for pitching and playing Miranda in LF (after what he did in AAA he should be moved ahead of Rooker & Larnach) and Kiriloff is my First-Baseman. That's a lineup that can score runs. keep building the pitching staff for 2022 and beyond.

Doc Bauer, I agree ! I think some GOOD opportunities were missed early but this trade for sonny Gray is excellent. I'm sorry to see Petty go, but he's 4-5 years away and just look at the list of pitching prospects we have! We can afford to package Arraez or Larnach with a young pitching prospect and maybe someone like Cavaco to make a big splash in a trade or just sign Big Mike and go to lunch. I hope they aim high and skip lunch.

Baseball Trade values has Gray listed at a value of 28.3. Peguero, the other pitcher acquired is only .10. Petty on the other hand has a listed value of 4.80. The Twins CRUSHED this trade. Look, I hate to see Petty go. He was an intriguing prospect. But he's YEARS away. For this season and next at a minimum Sonny Gray is a GREAT addition. I agree with those who are disappointed we didn't add someone like Bassitt. But when you STEAL Gray away from the Reds like the Twins did here, you can package something to Oakland for Montas. Players in play for that type of move would include: Arraez, Larnach, Lewis, Martin, some of our young pitchers. The point is, we have the firepower, should we choose to use it, to acquire a SP like Montas to pair with Gray at the top of our rotation and certainly compete for a playoff spot. Let's hope there is more to come.

I like this trade as it solidifies the SS position. However, there simply HAVE to be other moves to add pitching coming from the FO. Many on TD always look at adding veteran pitching as a one-year solution. I don't. If I trade Arraez in a package to get pitching from the Marlins or A's I'm looking to make a commitment to keeping whatever I gave solid assets up to get. I see no need to keep Arraez with the acquisition of Kiner-Falefa. Unless a trade of Donaldson is coming I don't want to see anyone blocking Miranda. He has nothing left to prove at St. Paul. He needs AB's, whether that's as our regular LF'er, 3B-man or primary utility man. Kiriloff will be in the lineup regularly at either 1B or LF with an occasional game at DH. The young RH pitcher is also a fine addition. having him could allow the Twins to trade one of our "other" young pitchers in a package or possibly spin Henriquez off as part of a deal to bring in a vet.

There just HAS to be a way for teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh to compete. Heck, when free agency started it was the Baltimore Orioles who signed Reggie Jackson first...NOT the Yankees. If Baltimore or Pittsburgh REALLY wanted to compete, they'd spend some #### Money !! They just like to make bank deposits.

I'd make a strong play for Suzuki at 5-yrs $55.00 million. He's in our price range and could hit on a par with Bryant and Castellanos while providing better defense.

I agree with Doc Gast on this for the most part. I see Buxton playing 100+ games (if indeed there is a season at all) and he will be in the mix for MVP votes even if the team as a whole does poorly). I see Polanco as the "steady Eddy." He will be money in the bank even if he slips to 25 HR (instead of 33). Garver will be fine if rotated between C/1B/DH in some fashion. Donaldson will be solid. The big question marks are indeed Sano and Kepler. Their impact on the 2019 Bomba Squad was undeniable. Since then their performance has dragged the lineup down. They are the two biggest Wildcards. I EXPECT Kiriloff to HIT. That swing is just too pretty. Larnach has further to go and we may not see anything at all from him this year or at best, not until after the All Star game. I'm fully on board for trading Arraez in a package for pitching upgrades (and boy do we need them). Miranda will pick up the slack nicely if Arraez is traded. If Luis is NOT traded, it will be up to Rocco to FINALLY just put him at the top of the order and play him at LF,2B,3B and DH. Just have him in there nearly every day and setting the table at the top of the order. The Twins, by and large, will hit and score runs. How they pitch is impossible to gauge at this moment because if our FO goes into this season with the pitching staff as presently constituted (or makes similar lousy additions to last year) then they should be charged with "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" and IMPEACHED !!

I think the comp to Mauer is just what Cody wanted, nothing more than a catcher who is a VERY good hitter but that catchers tend to get beat up more than most other position players. As hitters, Mauer and Garver are almost polar opposites. I think Cody is making an excellent point. We have two young catchers in Jeffers and Rortvedt who need to play. It may be a little too soon for Rortvedt with the Twins, but he did play a bit with them last year and his defensive chops are for real. We currently have no LF'er. The idea, (even if Kiriloff is the superior defensive 1B-man) of rotating Garver and Sano between DH & 1B and sticking AK out in LF may hurt the overall defense a bit, but would really add juice to the lineup. If the Twins could live with the ups and downs of Jeffers and Rortvedt offensively, this is a strategy I would fully support. I'd love to see what Garve-Sauce could do with 500 AB's.

I agree with what ashbury said in response to my comment. BTV is not the "be all and end all" but it's at least a point I can start when imagining a trade. Even as fervent fans there is SO MUCH we have no clue about. But of course as fans we want to imagine a trade or two that would help our hometown team. I especially agree with his take on Donaldson's value but I also can absolutely see the logic as to why that site could assign him a negative trade value. Doc, I am convinced that I traded a Hank Aaron for a Tony Oliva to an older kid in my neighborhood when I was probably 7 or 8 years old. Tony-O was my favorite and in my history-altering memory, I'm convinced I traded the Aaron where he's holding the bat cross-handed (making me convinced the stats on the back of his card MUST be fake) !! Oh, the memories !!

I think you nailed it Nash. And combining Kiriloff and Sano into one was shrewd. They are linked to each other for a number of reasons. I think people are "fairly" comfortable about what Joe Ryan will provide. But Ober MUST not falter. And it doesn't matter if the Twins bring in some vet SP's thru trade or FA to bolster the roster or not. Ober is being counted on heavily and then need him to continue to progress. And I like that you saved Lewis for last. He could be Buxton-esque in many ways, or never clear the hurdle of "health" first so he can let his talent flow. These last 3 years for him have not helped his situation at all. Twins fans still have high hopes.

I love the site. It's always fun to "dream" up a trade or two that would benefit the Twins or whoever your favorite team is, and the "values" assigned each player take a lot of factors into consideration. Otherwise, you're doing nothing more than trading baseball cards with other kids in your neighborhood, where the "big kids" take advantage of the "little kids" by proposing a Johnny Klippsten (because he's a Twin and the card looks cool) for Mickey Mantle (or in a more subtle move, Al Kaline). The challenge is proposing something where not only the "values" come close, but the trade benefits BOTH teams. And it's always O.K. to agree to disagree. I have posted several proposed trades on the site and a few have involved an Arraez centered package that brings back Frankie Montas. There's a guy named "Grover" who always downvotes my trade (he's an A's fan, or at least I THINK he is) because he doesn't see the A's needing Arraez. I usually counter with pointing out that the A's only have Tony Kemp at 2B and he's a converted outfielder and if they trade Chapman, they could use Arraez at 3B in addition to DH. But I respect his criticism because he's probably more vested in what the A's would get back. I did plenty of downvoting and commenting when people proposed trades for Buxton that I deemed unworthy. But it's a great site that helps give you a sense of why player "X" is valued more than player "Y" even though "X" may be an accepted "Star" in the league. Or why some players, like Donaldson or Sano would actually carry a "negative" trade value.

Well, 9 of 12 is speaking of Walter Johnson (I know you know this DJL44). This is what makes it interesting in how you frame this question. "The Big Train" is one of the greatest pitchers in baseball history, not just of this franchise. But I thought it was framed that for THIS exercise, we would only consider Minnesota Twins players from 1961 to present. Otherwise, Johnson is up there and Joe Mauer probably isn't. This is very much like considering a "Dodgers" Mount Rushmore. Do you separate Brooklyn from L.A. ? If you do, Things get MUCH tougher for their Mt. Rushmore. Or a Giants Mt. Rushmore between New York & San Francisco. What makes the Twins question so tough is that the became the Twins and the Senators had another iteration as an expansion team. At least the Dodgers and Giants remained the Dodgers and Giants.

I'm just so sick of the players and owners right now I don't care if they ban shifts or not. I'm just sick of the whole bunch of them.

I mentally wrote down who my 4 were before I read the piece. Tony O is my favorite Twin of all time, but Killebrew, Carew, Puckett and Mauer are the four.

Everybody knows my thoughts on this topic as I've suggested trading Arraez frequently. I love to watch his AB's but I'm firmly in the camp that he's certainly replaceable. It would take a "Package" of players with Arraez the headliner to secure Frankie Montas from the A's. Castillo from the Reds would cost even more. If some are repulsed by the idea of putting a package together for Arraez in a deal for pitching, then using Arraez alone should get you either Bassitt or Manaea and a little something more from Oakland. The Marlins need HITTERS. The N.L. now has the DH. They are overflowing with young pitchers. The Twins could offer Arraez to Miami and look at guys like Max Meyer, Sixto Sanchez and Jesus Luzardo as possibilities. Bottom Line: Arraez is replaceable. The Twins have an acute need for Starting Pitching. I believe Miranda is READY and I think he'll be BETTER than Arraez. I deal Arraez as much for pitching as to get Miranda up here and in the lineup. He's got nothing more to prove at St. Paul.

The reason why you do a trade like this is to compete in 2022 and BEYOND. The strategic reason you do a trade like this is you need stability in your starting rotation. Ryan and Ober are 2nd year guys. Everyone else with any upside is a rookie. Even if you piggyback 8 SP's each going 3-4 innings you will have some rocky outings that put an incredible strain on your starting staff & bullpen. You don't make this trade thinking only of 2022. You make it to retain Montas and build through your young SP's while protecting their arms/innings/pitches as much as you can throughout the stresses of a 162 game regular season. The only time your focus should be short, is Game #7 of the World Series.

Cody, thank you for stimulating the discussion with an excellent "scenario." I'm late to comment as I was at Mass this morning and had some errands to run afterward. But being late gives me a chance to say while I respect your viewpoint, I'm on board with Dr. Gast, tony&rodney and Mike8791. I have always stated that that we should be gearing up to contend in 2022. We were back to back division winners in 2019 and the shortened 2020. We handed the division last year to the White Sox when our front office completely failed and the Sox FO was stellar. Good for the White Sox. If our "dynamic duo" wants to remain employed they can't let the current pitching staff remain the status quo. The trade you put forward is very fair according to Baseball Trade Values, and since I manage a TV station sales team (and am not employed by a MLB front office) I use that as my baseline to see if I'm realistic or insane. The only guy in your trade I would feel some unease about is Duran. I love Arraez. But with Miranda, Martin and Lewis we really need to move him for pitching. He's just superfluous going forward. A trade for Montas is needed not just for 2022 but for the seasons to come. As I was reading the other comments I was thinking "why couldn't we acquire Montas and then either sign Story for SS or Rodon to go WITH Montas ?? Others subsequently made those points. I could see myself bargaining with the A's to NOT include Duran (I see him as our future closer) by including Sabato/Wallner Rooker or Dobnak. Getting Montas without giving up Balazovic, Canterino, Winder, or SWR is a WIN ! I fervently want Canterino to be a stud SP for the Twins, but I could also live with him as our future closer if we HAD to include Duran in the deal. So what about Rodon to go WITH Montas ?? I was driving in the car on Friday and heard a couple guys talking about Rodon on XM Radio. One guy said something i hadn't ever heard before about Rodon. Seems until he had Tommy-John surgery, Rodon had never worked out. Never lifted any weights. But because he had to rehab he was "forced to." He reported to spring training in the best shape of his life and proceeded to have a tremendous year. Had he not hurt his arm or gone thru a dead arm period, he was the best pitcher in the A.L. last year. He was Koufax-esque !! That puts me in a different mind set regarding if I would go after him. If we traded for Montas in the deal you proposed, and I had to choose between signing Story or Rodon, I'd probably go with Story to plug that HUGE hole at SS. But if I was Jim Pohlad, I do that Montas deal, and sign BOTH Story and Rodon. (or just Rodon and trade for Mondesi or DeJong). I'd expect my manager and pitching coach to want to baby every arm with the names Ryan, Ober, Balazoivic, Winder, Canterino, and SWRichardson attached to it. I'd see how 2022 plays out. (remember, we don't need to win 106 games like the Dodgers last year to finish 2nd!!!). And after 2022, I'd start the whole evaluation process over again: How's our lineup? Buxton, Polanco, Kiriloff, Story getting it done ? Is it time to move on from Sano ? How are Miranda, Martin and Lewis shaping up as well as Larnach/Celestino ? What about our catchers ? And finally, what did Montas & Rodon show us? And key to all of this: Where are we at with ALL THOSE YOUNG PITCHERS ??? Who got hurt ? Who disappointed ? Who FLASHED ?? And once again, the entire process starts up again. But no, I will never be happy with the determination that we have to punt 2022 and that 2022 should be a 90-100 loss season.

I think his immediate future position is LF. The Twins will have to add someone at SS, whether it's Story in an uncharacteristic HUGE signing or trading for a Mondesi/DeJong kind of player. Donaldson, at least in 2022, will be the 3B. Kiriloff should be at 1B with Sano the everyday DH. Polanco at 2B means (once SS is addressed) that the infield is FULL. I could see Miranda playing a lot of LF with an occasional appearance by Arraez (unless he's traded for pitching--which he should be to make room for Miranda) along with Larnach. I just don't see what else Miranda needs to prove in St. Paul. It's not like we won the division and he's got talented players stacked ahead of him. We finished in dead last place and LF is WIDE OPEN at this point. Glove-wise, he's got to be at least marginally better than Rooker. Get him in the lineup !! Once the Twins move on from Donaldson...whenever that is, he can transition to 3B. And by that time Austin Martin should be about ready to take over in LF. SS is the gaping hole in the Twins defensive alignment and whatever positions certain players fall into will be dependent on filling that gaping hole in whatever fashion this FO chooses to fill it.

I guess I'm of the mind that if the Twins think he's the best, most talented player on the board at their spot, I take him. And I SIGN him. Then, because Boras is his agent I'd have a different plan. I put him on the major league roster very quickly. And then I ride him... HARD. I pitch him. And I pitch him. And I PITCH him. The Twins will never have him once he enters his FA years. Boras will make sure of that. So with that in mind, I get my money's worth out of him, like an NFL team rides a young running back.

Story could solve the SS issue, but I'm still of a mind to trade for someone like Mondesi, Dejong etc...that wouldn't cost much prospect wise, but would be a solid player at the position leaving Polanco at 2B. I lean more toward singing Rodon to the 1-year $25 million with a team option for 2023 and packaging Arraez for a SP like Bassitt or Manaea or a Marlins prospect like Sanchez or Meyer. I would like to see two solid guys at the top of the rotation (Rodon & Bassitt/Manaea, put Bundy #4 and slot Ryan and Ober at #3 & #5) There's always Pineda as well depending on cost. Then let Winder, Balazovic, Duran, Strotman etc...shuttle up and down and fill in. Gotta get the young guys some innings, but you've got to have some veteran pitchers to fill innings and tie everything together. I don't mind all the speculation, but without a true sense of what the team is willing to spend this year, we're all just walking down a dark hallway.