Is Emphasizing Depth Charges Like Ty France the Right Offseason Strategy?

chpettit19 · February 12, 2025

11 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I just don't even know what you or others mean by "floor setting" anymore.

Does that just mean short term deal? Because after it's been used to describe every single Twins veteran player they brought in it obviously doesn't mean low risk low reward.

It means players who aren't likely to OPS+ 60 but also aren't likely to OPS+ 110+. They're guys who's likely outcome are slightly below average to league average. They make it so you don't have a White Sox season because you're not risking completely inept play but instead are getting yourself just slightly worse than average. But you're also not giving yourself a realistic shot at a 95 win season and the ability to make real noise in the playoffs because you're limiting the ceiling of your team by adding numerous guys who nobody would bet will break out with a 120 OPS+. They're players the FO hopes will narrow their variance by raising the lower end of the likely possible outcomes but also lowering the upper end of the likely possible outcomes.

And outside of the Correa, Donaldson, and Cruz signings have they brought in anyone who wasn't a "low risk low reward" vet? We describe nearly all of them that way because it's what nearly all of them are.

JD-TWINS · February 12, 2025

57 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Margot - $8 million Gallo - $11 million

Bader - $4. million with a maximum $1.5 million buyout based on plate appearances

France - $1 million

Bader and France are no where near a Margot, Colome or Gallo situation. With all these bottom barrel signings you are hoping for that 25% chance or less of a breakout year - or a solid year on an aging player like Santana. We like to crap on the signings that don't work out but tend to forget the Santana, Solano, Nelson Cruz contracts really working out. France won't just be trotted out there consistently, you have Miranda and Julien that will be pushing him and may outplay him in spring ball. France hit the ball hard last year, but also had an uptick on his whiff percentage, if he can get just a little more lift and turn more ground outs into singles, and singles into doubles, he is back to the player he was in 20 and 21.

As you point out, there’s no crystal ball on players future performances. I gotta say that I agree on past FA signings being a mix of success and failure.

Real problem with France signing is the decision to DFA Headrick & losing him when making 40 man roster space. IMO, Headrick is a lot more valuable than Camargo or Gasper - right? Headrick is now a Yankee and that seems like an opportunity lost!

Blyleven2011 · February 12, 2025

12 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Maybe having that last name starting with H is the 4 leaf clover that gets them to a new organization and MLB?

Headrick to Yankees has a goid chance if he performs well in spring training , Yankees are short on bullpen lefthanders and they like multiple lefthanders in their bullpen ...

Henrique to Miami is out of options so if he too performs well should make the team , Henrique is only 24 ...

Helman to the cardinals is hopefully a good move for him and because of his versatility has a good shot at furthering his career ...

HHH - Hubert H Humphrey Dome , demolished ...

To bad falvey doesn't have an H in his name and we could possibly find a taker to hire him ...

mikelink45 · February 12, 2025

This is not the floor - this is the basement. Can't wait for the garage sale to clear the excess.

Blyleven2011 · February 12, 2025

9 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

As you point out, there’s no crystal ball on players future performances. I gotta say that I agree on past FA signings being a mix of success and failure.

Real problem with France signing is the decision to DFA Headrick & losing him when making 40 man roster space. IMO, Headrick is a lot more valuable than Camargo or Gasper - right? Headrick is now a Yankee and that seems like an opportunity lost!

My understanding from draft tracker that fo tried to be sneaky and pass headrick through ...

Their thought process according to draft tracker was they wanted to try and pass headrick through because most 40 man rosters are full , they thought it would be harder to pass him through before players could go on 60 day IL and vacate a roster spot to add ...

Falvey again proves his ineptitude at judging other mlb teams ...

Gasper or camargo would have been a better choice to try and pass through , we've lost two pitchers for nothing and every team is looking for pitching ...

Fatbat · February 12, 2025

We are now marginally worse. Basically gave Headrick away to watch France fail.

LambchoP · February 12, 2025

I think these depth type signings do raise our floor a bit and help as injury insurance but do nothing at all to raise the ceiling . They don't help our lineup at all either, which is something we needed to do. Maybe Keirsey wouldn't be able to outperform Bader offensively or defensively but how do we know if he never gets a chance? Could Severino outhit and be a better first baseman than France? Maybe. If all these depth moves, which seemingly just clog up our bench are a prelude to a trade to get an actual impact starting player then I'm all for it. Unfortunately, I think this is all we're getting. Signing backup bench guys and hoping for better health and performance from our main guys like every other year.

Blyleven2011 · February 12, 2025

17 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

This is not the floor - this is the basement. Can't wait for the garage sale to clear the excess.

I grew up on the farm and cleaned out the barn and shoveled c**p , and I miss the farm ...

I sure ain't liking this c**p the FO is trying to sell us in believing we will be contenders in the playoffs ...

Our pitching is strong but our inconsistent hitting and defense hasn't been addressed ( Bader on defense but lacks a strong bat ) ...

Our FO lives on hope and continue to be pretenders ...

LambchoP · February 12, 2025

France is a low risk signing, if he looks good early then he can backup 1b and DH. If he sucks, he doesn't make the team. I really believe the Twins need to finally decide on a long term first baseman rather than the year to year carousel. Maybe use this year to see if Miranda can do it. Give Severino one last chance to get a call up. Maybe Royce Lewis ends up at first base if we need 3rd base for Lee. Can Keaschal play first? A lot of these questions should be answered this year. If we can't find an answer in house, then a trade or FA signing should be made in the off-season. A little stability at first would be great. Then we can turn our attention to the next big need, our long term catcher:)

bean5302 · February 12, 2025

France has a NON-GUARANTEED contract guys. It's basically a MiLB signing with an opt out for making the roster. The difference is France will make $1MM this year if he makes the roster instead of $760k...

I don't have any real issues with the signing, and Headrick should have been non-tendered IMHO. His ceiling is probably spot middle reliever if he can even be successful in that role.

Is the overall strategy good? No. Spend money on GOOD players. Trade depth for depth. When you spend money on low ceiling depth players, you wind up with guys on the roster you'd rather not have on the roster, but you still have to pay them.

jmlease1 · February 12, 2025

53 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

It means players who aren't likely to OPS+ 60 but also aren't likely to OPS+ 110+. They're guys who's likely outcome are slightly below average to league average. They make it so you don't have a White Sox season because you're not risking completely inept play but instead are getting yourself just slightly worse than average. But you're also not giving yourself a realistic shot at a 95 win season and the ability to make real noise in the playoffs because you're limiting the ceiling of your team by adding numerous guys who nobody would bet will break out with a 120 OPS+. They're players the FO hopes will narrow their variance by raising the lower end of the likely possible outcomes but also lowering the upper end of the likely possible outcomes.

And outside of the Correa, Donaldson, and Cruz signings have they brought in anyone who wasn't a "low risk low reward" vet? We describe nearly all of them that way because it's what nearly all of them are.

I think that's right about what floor-raising means, mostly. And there's real value to not giving significant innings to pitchers with an ERA+ of 63 or ABs to hitters who clock in with an OPS+ of 70. But i agree that it can lower the ceiling, and it's even less helpful if/when you make the playoffs, because you have fewer difference-makers available to you.

In terms of free agent signings, this is where we've mostly played, outside of the ones you've noted above. That said, I do think trades need to be considered in this: Sonny Gray, Kenta Maeda, Tyler Mahle (just because it didn't work, didn't mean they didn't try) are all more than the "low risk, low reward" vet. (and how do you categorize Vazquez?) I do think if the Pohlads hadn't hacked $30M off the payroll in 2023 we might have seen higher quality veteran signings? (instead of a salary dump and a prospect, maybe Polanco gets moved for something more interesting...or we use the savings for a real OF option instead of Margot) Ownership definitely put us back in the dumpster diving mode that way.

PatPfund · February 12, 2025

These three players (Coulombe, Hader, France) are all totally different types of deals.

Coulombe is a solid MLB pitcher (with a no-run playoff appearance last year) filling a known team deficiency (LH RP), and being paid on a solid deal for the need. Instantly better than any in-house option.

Ty France is cheap insurance; with no offers pending, he gets a chance to showcase himself for both the team and MLB while getting a full camp in; the Twins get backup in case Miranda and/or Julien look bad. If the younger players look set, France gets released with little cost (the contract isn't guaranteed unless he makes the team). If one falters badly and France thrives, it is only $1 million (meaning later release is less painful).

Hader is just a bad deal, because the cost of his deal (officially $4.75 million, but the team is hooked for another $1.5 million guaranteed if they buy out next year's option) essentially locks his "floor" onto the roster, and represents lost money that will probably restrict whatever roster moves the Twins need to make in-season. Half-price Joey Gallo, extremely expensive Keirsey, Jr.

DocBauer · February 12, 2025

The issue isn't France on a 1yr $1M deal. And the issue isn't bringing in a depth piece or two to fill a temporary hole on the roster. The problem is a cumulative affect of too many of these types of players over multiple years. AND how some of those players are used.

I don't include Coulombe as a floor setter. Unless the Twins had $8-12M or so to spend/risk on a top ranked LHRP on the market, there were about 3 quality guys available who could perform well as a 7th inning, maybe 8th, and were affordable. Coulombe was one of them.

Bader as a replacement for Margot is just fine. Better defense, more speed, and about equal as a hitter. No worries. But will he be used as a 4th OF role player, or like Margot does he end up with 400+ PA providing a mediocre to poor bat in the daily lineup.

France as a low risk, cheap, backup 1B option behind Miranda is fine as well. If he can find his old self...or early 2024 self from reports...he adds a decent bat off the bench and some time at DH.

Again, none of these are bad moves unto themselves. But how in the world do the Twins not have a PRIMARY 1B for years on end? Maybe Miranda should have been moved earlier and would be settled in now and we wouldn't be stressing over France because we'd know he was just a bench players. Or maybe we'd feel better about Julien as a backup because we already had a clear #1.

MAYBE Keirsey and Helman should have been up sooner so we could see IF they had what it takes to replace a Margot type of poor performer. IF they had, suddenly Bader isn't necessary and his $ might be spent differently.

While Bader and France aren't expensive, could they and the $7.5M being paid to Paddack have been combined to add ONE bat that could make a difference, or had a chance to make a difference? And that's where these floor setting signings are questionable.

Does Goldschmidt have one more good year left? Or is he over the hill? Well, he finished the 2nd half of 2024 strong. So maybe you take the "risk" he's got another good year left, use Miranda in a multi-purpose role, roll through all of your OF for the best CF backup option, and give someone like Goldschmidt a chance to make a difference. He might not. He might tank. But we already know a Bader and France definitely aren't going to raise the ceiling for the team.

Yes, I understand the FO had the rug pulled out from them in 2023 and 2024, though to a somewhat lesser degree. And I don't absolve them for some poor choices, or sticking with poor choices too long. But the past 2 offseasons there wasn't a Correa, Donaldson, Cruz, Gonzalez type signing available to raise the bar of the team. Perhaps that begins to change for 2026 with new owners that will free the purse strings enough to allow greater flexibility.

Once again, there's nothing wrong with the guys signed this year on a dime store budget. They might even help. If they DON'T perform well, then it's a mistake on the FO for sticking with them and not giving the guys in the system an opportunity to prove themselves, similar to last season.

AKTwinsFan · February 12, 2025

Idk about Miranda who doesn't have much experience at first. It's more likely he is used as a platoon player around the infield or DH.

NYCTK · February 12, 2025

15 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

While Bader and France aren't expensive, could they and the $7.5M being paid to Paddack have been combined to add ONE bat that could make a difference, or had a chance to make a difference? And that's where these floor setting signings are questionable.

No, probably not.

Everyone here has been throwing out wild and dumb ideas about how to get rid of the salaries of Paddack and Vazquez but the fact is, other teams view those contracts the same as the Twins. Why would THEY want them? Nick Pavetta is still a free agent and you think a team wants to trade for the pleasure of paying Paddack? Jose Quintana pitched two great outings in the NL playoffs and still doesn't have a home.

But let's say you even did get a team to take Paddack on and signed, for example, Michael Conforto.

Ok. You still need a 4th OF. You still need a 1B, unless you're now throwing Larnach or Wallner into that competition and calling it good. And you're now down an arm, albeit an entirely unreliable one.

Is that really a better team?

chpettit19 · February 12, 2025

46 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

I think that's right about what floor-raising means, mostly. And there's real value to not giving significant innings to pitchers with an ERA+ of 63 or ABs to hitters who clock in with an OPS+ of 70. But i agree that it can lower the ceiling, and it's even less helpful if/when you make the playoffs, because you have fewer difference-makers available to you.

In terms of free agent signings, this is where we've mostly played, outside of the ones you've noted above. That said, I do think trades need to be considered in this: Sonny Gray, Kenta Maeda, Tyler Mahle (just because it didn't work, didn't mean they didn't try) are all more than the "low risk, low reward" vet. (and how do you categorize Vazquez?) I do think if the Pohlads hadn't hacked $30M off the payroll in 2023 we might have seen higher quality veteran signings? (instead of a salary dump and a prospect, maybe Polanco gets moved for something more interesting...or we use the savings for a real OF option instead of Margot) Ownership definitely put us back in the dumpster diving mode that way.

I wasn't thinking about trades, but that's a good point. And I don't think many of us considered those guys "low risk, low reward." The FO has taken some swings, and I appreciate that, but it feels like they did half the job and now have been taking fewer and fewer real swings. The payroll certainly plays a part in that, but my argument has been that the 33ish mil spent on a handful of "low risk, low reward" vets could be better spent on a bigger swing and pre-arb guys.

I categorize Vazquez as "high risk, low reward." I think that was pretty much the feeling around most of the industry when that contract was announced because it was reported for a while before he signed that he didn't want to come here, and after he signed it was pretty universally accepted that he came here because they were the only team to offer him a 3rd year and were by far the biggest contract. If they signed him for about 5 a year like the rest of the glove only guys get he'd be more of the "low risk, low reward" signing. Instead he was the worst type of contract (like Gallo) of "high risk, low reward."

There's logic in their strategy. One can make a solid enough argument for most every player they've brought in (including Gallo and Margot). I don't think anyone is saying there's no logic in anything they do or there's no good reason at all for any of these individual moves, some of us just prefer the higher variance methods that come with the increased chance of being great. I always say I'd prefer a team that can be anywhere from 75 to 95 wins over the team that's in the 80 to 85 win range. Not everyone agrees, and that's why we all come on here and share our thoughts.

Exiled in Illinois · February 12, 2025

Go Twins!

We have 4 proven all-star caliber players (Buck, Correa, Lopez, Castro)!

We have 3 playoff caliber starters, including an ace!

We have a solid back end of rotation with depth, and even some potential upside!

We have and elite bullpen back end!

We have very good setup guys in bullpen!

The rest of bullpen is solid, with depth!

We have 2 can't miss prospects in position to prove themselves (Lee and Lewis...we'll see if they really are cant miss)!

We have a bunch of young guys who have shown flashes, but need to prove they can be solid MLB regulars!

We have a solid farm system with help on the way!

Wow! And we're a mid market team! Can any other mid-market teams make similar boasts?

Bader and France are needed, competant backups. Backups. They have holes/questions in thier games. That's why they are backups. If they are forced to be primary starters, it'll be a long season.

If our all stars don't perform or are injured, it'll be a long season.

If our starters don't perform or are injured, it'll be a long season.

If our bullpen doesn't perform or are injured, it'll be a long season.

If our young guys don't perform, it'll be a long season.

I swear, the only way to make some people happy about the Twins would be to have all stars at every position, backed up by other allstars!

I'm happy with my Twins! Looking forward an exciting season!

Go Twins!

JD-TWINS · February 12, 2025

39 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

The issue isn't France on a 1yr $1M deal. And the issue isn't bringing in a depth piece or two to fill a temporary hole on the roster. The problem is a cumulative affect of too many of these types of players over multiple years. AND how some of those players are used.

I don't include Coulombe as a floor setter. Unless the Twins had $8-12M or so to spend/risk on a top ranked LHRP on the market, there were about 3 quality guys available who could perform well as a 7th inning, maybe 8th, and were affordable. Coulombe was one of them.

Bader as a replacement for Margot is just fine. Better defense, more speed, and about equal as a hitter. No worries. But will he be used as a 4th OF role player, or like Margot does he end up with 400+ PA providing a mediocre to poor bat in the daily lineup.

France as a low risk, cheap, backup 1B option behind Miranda is fine as well. If he can find his old self...or early 2024 self from reports...he adds a decent bat off the bench and some time at DH.

Again, none of these are bad moves unto themselves. But how in the world do the Twins not have a PRIMARY 1B for years on end? Maybe Miranda should have been moved earlier and would be settled in now and we wouldn't be stressing over France because we'd know he was just a bench players. Or maybe we'd feel better about Julien as a backup because we already had a clear #1.

MAYBE Keirsey and Helman should have been up sooner so we could see IF they had what it takes to replace a Margot type of poor performer. IF they had, suddenly Bader isn't necessary and his $ might be spent differently.

While Bader and France aren't expensive, could they and the $7.5M being paid to Paddack have been combined to add ONE bat that could make a difference, or had a chance to make a difference? And that's where these floor setting signings are questionable.

Does Goldschmidt have one more good year left? Or is he over the hill? Well, he finished the 2nd half of 2024 strong. So maybe you take the "risk" he's got another good year left, use Miranda in a multi-purpose role, roll through all of your OF for the best CF backup option, and give someone like Goldschmidt a chance to make a difference. He might not. He might tank. But we already know a Bader and France definitely aren't going to raise the ceiling for the team.

Yes, I understand the FO had the rug pulled out from them in 2023 and 2024, though to a somewhat lesser degree. And I don't absolve them for some poor choices, or sticking with poor choices too long. But the past 2 offseasons there wasn't a Correa, Donaldson, Cruz, Gonzalez type signing available to raise the bar of the team. Perhaps that begins to change for 2026 with new owners that will free the purse strings enough to allow greater flexibility.

Once again, there's nothing wrong with the guys signed this year on a dime store budget. They might even help. If they DON'T perform well, then it's a mistake on the FO for sticking with them and not giving the guys in the system an opportunity to prove themselves, similar to last season.

I agree - none of the FA signings alone are terrible. The fact that this is starting to appear to be the cumulative effort for the off-season is a bummer. …… It appears that my hope of trading real pieces for a Tristan Casas at 1B/DH is now an impossibility or at least even more highly improbable!

Parfigliano · February 12, 2025

1 hour ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Headrick to Yankees has a goid chance if he performs well in spring training , Yankees are short on bullpen lefthanders and they like multiple lefthanders in their bullpen ...

Henrique to Miami is out of options so if he too performs well should make the team , Henrique is only 24 ...

Helman to the cardinals is hopefully a good move for him and because of his versatility has a good shot at furthering his career ...

HHH - Hubert H Humphrey Dome , demolished ...

To bad falvey doesn't have an H in his name and we could possibly find a taker to hire him ...

I think they are really going to regret giving up on Henriquez.

JD-TWINS · February 12, 2025

2 minutes ago, Exiled in Illinois said:

Go Twins!

We have 4 proven all-star caliber players (Buck, Correa, Lopez, Castro)!

We have 3 playoff caliber starters, including an ace!

We have a solid back end of rotation with depth, and even some potential upside!

We have and elite bullpen back end!

We have very good setup guys in bullpen!

The rest of bullpen is solid, with depth!

We have 2 can't miss prospects in position to prove themselves (Lee and Lewis...we'll see if they really are cant miss)!

We have a bunch of young guys who have shown flashes, but need to prove they can be solid MLB regulars!

We have a solid farm system with help on the way!

Wow! And we're a mid market team! Can any other mid-market teams make similar boasts?

Bader and France are needed, competant backups. Backups. They have holes/questions in thier games. That's why they are backups. If they are forced to be primary starters, it'll be a long season.

If our all stars don't perform or are injured, it'll be a long season.

If our starters don't perform or are injured, it'll be a long season.

If our bullpen doesn't perform or are injured, it'll be a long season.

If our young guys don't perform, it'll be a long season.

I swear, the only way to make some people happy about the Twins would be to have all stars at every position, backed up by other allstars!

I'm happy with my Twins! Looking forward an exciting season!

Go Twins!

Completely agree that optimism isn’t ever a real thing at TD! I think the thing you point out that is true for probably 27 of 30 teams is that they can’t handle much in the way of key player injury and still be expected to be highly competitive……..everyone has potential issues.

That said, lumping Castro into an All-star headline is real on paper only, IMO. He’s very flexible defensively but barely an average offensive player. He is also very durable ……,. more like our # 8 or #10 guy of 13 though.

Skepticism is there with Lee for me, not so much with Lewis.

Blyleven2011 · February 12, 2025

1 hour ago, Exiled in Illinois said:

Go Twins!

We have 4 proven all-star caliber players (Buck, Correa, Lopez, Castro)!

We have 3 playoff caliber starters, including an ace!

We have a solid back end of rotation with depth, and even some potential upside!

We have and elite bullpen back end!

We have very good setup guys in bullpen!

The rest of bullpen is solid, with depth!

We have 2 can't miss prospects in position to prove themselves (Lee and Lewis...we'll see if they really are cant miss)!

We have a bunch of young guys who have shown flashes, but need to prove they can be solid MLB regulars!

We have a solid farm system with help on the way!

Wow! And we're a mid market team! Can any other mid-market teams make similar boasts?

Bader and France are needed, competant backups. Backups. They have holes/questions in thier games. That's why they are backups. If they are forced to be primary starters, it'll be a long season.

If our all stars don't perform or are injured, it'll be a long season.

If our starters don't perform or are injured, it'll be a long season.

If our bullpen doesn't perform or are injured, it'll be a long season.

If our young guys don't perform, it'll be a long season.

I swear, the only way to make some people happy about the Twins would be to have all stars at every position, backed up by other allstars!

I'm happy with my Twins! Looking forward an exciting season!

Go Twins!

You forgot one of the most important things with the twins ...

If Rocco manages the whole season , it's going to be a very long season ...

Blyleven2011 · February 12, 2025

54 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

The Twins have always been a "set the floor" type of team and this means that they are unlikely to win another WS, but will always remain somewhat competitive. Contending WS teams take big swings and sometimes miss (Padre's), but if you never take a swing, you can never get to the promised land.

Unfortunately, this approach exposes in-system talent like Hedrick, Helman, Henriguez to minor $ trades and waivers. Not saying any of these three would be superstars, but with roster limitations, bringing in these veteran low floor/low ceiling guys usually cause us to expose players and the low floor/low ceiling guys never seem to get the job done. Note: I will say the one exception was last year with Santana.

It's also frustrating to me to see the team stick with these low floor/ceiling guys for the entire season. Think Cave, Gallo, Margot, Farmer while losing and withholding AB's from the younger guys who need them. For those that say France will be cut since it is only 1MM or less, money is not the only reason Falvey hangs onto these guys. He's worried that injuries or the young guys not quite cutting it means he can't let a vet go because he cannot easily demote them to MiLB to get them back later on.

I'm betting that they keep France for the entire season for that reason alone.

We will never win another world series with this group , I hope it's better with an owner that wants to win ...

Also , will we ever have anyone presently that could be a hall of famer , if you continue to platoon players , they'll never be considered worthy of the HOF ...

Danchat · February 12, 2025

5 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Why add marginal pitching prospects like Travis Adams to the 40-man if you're never going to let them pitch because you have Tonkin and Topa and Couloumbe?

I will defend the Coulombe signing because they had nothing for left-handed pitching in the bullpen and he was shockingly good last year, but the rest of the signings are underwhelming. I'm also not happy about Tonkin seemingly being handed a spot in the pen when it seems like a near lock that he will be DFA'd by June.

The issue with the pitching prospects getting added to the 40 man roster is that they're kept as starters too long, then they either get hurt or are ineffective and then move to the pen and don't get much of a chance before getting DFA'd. Examples include Winder, Balazovic, Varland. Alcala was still starting games in AAA when it was apparent he was only ever going to function as a reliever. I think Henriquez and Headrick are marginal prospects and were never viewed as anything more.

Hawkeye Bean Counter · February 12, 2025

10 minutes ago, Danchat said:

I will defend the Coulombe signing because they had nothing for left-handed pitching in the bullpen and he was shockingly good last year, but the rest of the signings are underwhelming. I'm also not happy about Tonkin seemingly being handed a spot in the pen when it seems like a near lock that he will be DFA'd by June.

How can you defend one signing but go after the others, or go after my previous post? All these signings are gamble on an expected performance. Thinking you can pull something out of a player others have been unable to. For as much consternation as Kepler got here, I think that is going to be the type of player France is here if he makes the team. It will be whether the hard barrels, can translate into hits. If so you could have a mini renaissance to his 2020-2021 levels. A 2-3 War could be possible. For 1 million its a reasonable gamble. its no more of gamble than Gallo. The question is whether it is redundant with Miranda and Julien. 1 more option to flash seems like a good option. Yes I wish they were willing to spend more but until we can get new owners that isn't going to change.

Danchat · February 12, 2025

3 hours ago, DocBauer said:

And the issue isn't bringing in a depth piece or two to fill a temporary hole on the roster. The problem is a cumulative affect of too many of these types of players over multiple years. AND how some of those players are used.

Adding on to this, I think the other primary issue they have is that they aren't developing our prospects' defensive abilities in the minors, or their focus on bat-first players causes them to take players who will never find a defensive home. How many prospects have come up over the past 6-8 years and be able to hold up defensively at any position? They have to continue rotating through a mixed bag of veteran bench players because they don't have prospects in the farm system who can supplement the position.

USAFChief · February 12, 2025

15 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Adding on to this, I think the other primary issue they have is that they aren't developing our prospects' defensive abilities in the minors, or their focus on bat-first players causes them to take players who will never find a defensive home. How many prospects have come up over the past 6-8 years and be able to hold up defensively at a premium position? They have to continue rotating through a mixed bag of veteran bench players because they don't have prospects in the farm system who can supplement the position.

"Anybody can play anywhere."

They don't ask players to learn a position in the minors. They groom everyone to be glorified utility players.

And that's what they get.

Linus · February 12, 2025

If you take a step back and look at it, the Twins having to pursue this strategy most years tells me they have a player development problem. It’s understandable this will happen occasionally with all teams but the Twins are forced to do this way too much.

TheLeviathan · February 12, 2025

17 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Adding on to this, I think the other primary issue they have is that they aren't developing our prospects' defensive abilities in the minors, or their focus on bat-first players causes them to take players who will never find a defensive home. How many prospects have come up over the past 6-8 years and be able to hold up defensively at a premium position? They have to continue rotating through a mixed bag of veteran bench players because they don't have prospects in the farm system who can supplement the position.

This is a major issue I have as well. None of our young players seem to be maximizing their athleticism/talent as fielders.

NYCTK · February 12, 2025

8 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

"Anybody can play anywhere."

They don't ask players to learn a position in the minors. They groom everyone to be glorified utility players.

And that's what they get.

That's not remotely true. With Austin Martin, for example, he sucked everywhere so they kept moving him trying to find him a home.

TheLeviathan · February 12, 2025

One thing I do think is worth pointing out in these "floor" conversations is that a roster with depth is a major component to a successful season. I don't have an issue with this team adding veterans that provide specific, needed skills to the roster.

There seems to be a lot of False Dilemma going on in the last week. As someone who has stood tall to play more Nick Gordon, Matt Wallner, Eddy Julien, and many others....I appreciate the concern that we don't want to block young players. Like many of you, I'm old enough to remember how we wasted huge chunks of our available resources on guys like Rondell White. That concern resonates with me.

But there is a balancing act between providing opportunity and leaving yourself pressing prospects who aren't ready into professional games. We can do both. Harrison Bader doesn't mean E-Rod will never see the light of day. Columbe doesn't mean Varland should get a job at Kwik Trip. I promise....we can do both.

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