The Twins Should Be Embarrassed to Be Outspent by the Royals

1 hour ago, gil4 said:

Not even close - Santana is $5.5M, DeSclafani is $4M ($12M is offset by the $6M the Giants sent to the Mariners, who passed it along to the Twins, plus the additional $2M the Mariners kicked in.) Gray got $25M/yr for three years.  

Santana and descarwhatever are around 10 million with the tv contract we should have the other 15 million in budget.  Yes there are other cheaper aces maybe we could get. 

3 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Good for them with Witt, but the reason the Royals are spending so much money is because they have been terrible at developing good young players.

There wasn't a free agent they signed that I wanted on this team. Just because the Royals can't build a roster via the farm and have to sign a half dozen bottom barrel free agents doesn't mean I wan the Twins to follow suit just to spend money.

 

I totally agree with you, but Royals fan might very well say the same about the players added to the Twins roster.

3 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Just like with DeSclafani, I have no interest in that type of free agent pitcher. And at least with DeSclafani, I don't think the Twins have closed the door on getting an arm I actually want. Had they given out those contracts, I'd be sure the door was closed.

Looks an awful lot like the Ricky Nolasco, Phil Hughes, Kevin Correia era for the Twins; surprising paydays for a team not used to giving them out. However, while these arms may make you look more respectable through the regular season, they aren't nearly good enough to make you a contender. Those are treading water moves.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll take anything that will improve our team & either one of those pitchers would immediately be a member of our rotation because they are better than at least one existing option.

Both Cot's and Fangraphs have updated KC payrolls including the new Witt Jr. contract. The Royals are below the Twins in 26 person salary. The amount for Competitive Balance Tax/Estimated Luxury Tax Payroll is meaningless unless the team is over the limits and has to pay into the MLB fund. Disregard those numbers.

MN: around $118 M

KC: around $110 M

Minnesota wins here but the real games begin in Kansas City in late March.

Let’s not ignore the fact that the Twins have $100M in payroll next year plus an arbitration class that includes Lewis, Duran, Ober, and Ryan. I can’t see them adding a big long term contract right now. But maybe they’ll get an opportunity to offer another pillow contract

3 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

I think there is a lot to appreciate about the Pohlad’s

There is, but it is a corporation and the shareholders must get their pile. It really is something out of our control and thus not worth worrying about. The biggest positive is that Joe Pohlad actually follows baseball. His grandpa did not. Falvey receives way more support than any prior front office member, which is good/encouraging.

Also, Calvin Griffith was a far different cat than anyone who has owned a sports franchise in the last 60 plus years, including Charlie Finley, Al Davis,  and some other salty characters. Calvin's father died of alcoholism and he grew up with  Clark Griffith, eventually inheriting the team in 1955. Baseball was Calvin's life. He poured every penny into the team. He was never really a very rich man and was more or less forced to sell the team. He had a handshake agreement that his brothers would continue to be employed by the Twins. What do you think that handshake was worth? Griffith was gullible. No owner knew more baseball. Yes, Calvin was crude in ways but read what Rod Carew and other Black and Hispanic players had to say about Griffith. He really was a simple guy and time passed him by.  I once ran into him and said hello just to be friendly. He started asking me questions and we visited for 45 minutes. Straight talk on anyone, anything, and a little raw with no limits whatsoever. Calvin really was the last of the dinosaurs. He shouldn't be compared to any other owners because the differences are so incredibly stark. Read the book or at least a bit of his story.

24 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

There is, but it is a corporation and the shareholders must get their pile. It really is something out of our control and thus not worth worrying about. The biggest positive is that Joe Pohlad actually follows baseball. His grandpa did not. Falvey receives way more support than any prior front office member, which is good/encouraging.

Also, Calvin Griffith was a far different cat than anyone who has owned a sports franchise in the last 60 plus years, including Charlie Finley, Al Davis,  and some other salty characters. Calvin's father died of alcoholism and he grew up with  Clark Griffith, eventually inheriting the team in 1955. Baseball was Calvin's life. He poured every penny into the team. He was never really a very rich man and was more or less forced to sell the team. He had a handshake agreement that his brothers would continue to be employed by the Twins. What do you think that handshake was worth? Griffith was gullible. No owner knew more baseball. Yes, Calvin was crude in ways but read what Rod Carew and other Black and Hispanic players had to say about Griffith. He really was a simple guy and time passed him by.  I once ran into him and said hello just to be friendly. He started asking me questions and we visited for 45 minutes. Straight talk on anyone, anything, and a little raw with no limits whatsoever. Calvin really was the last of the dinosaurs. He shouldn't be compared to any other owners because the differences are so incredibly stark. Read the book or at least a bit of his story.

It’s a LLC and the only shareholders are the Pohlad family. It’s amazing to me that people want to give the Pohlad family cover for this off season. I’m not speaking directly to you Tony but I’m just dumbfounded by how easily we are accepting the Pohlads handling of this off season. The amount of money required to invest in this team which could be really good is peanuts in the landscape of MLB. Not to mention less than peanuts in terms of the value they have received in the team and their own family fortunes. I also want to note that I have never criticized the Pohlads handling of payroll in prior years. I have not been a Pohlads are cheap guy but this year is a completely different story. They should be embarrassed. Or as Sid used to say they could screw up a two car funeral. 

Props to the Royaĺs for being very relevant for a while several years ago.  

That said, full rebuilds are buIIshit, and I will be jealous of the Royals when they are worthy of.carrying our jockstraps again.  

Be prepared for this to happen all over again next offseason because the TV deal is only one season.

13 minutes ago, Joe A. Preusser said:

Props to the Royaĺs for being very relevant for a while several years ago.  

That said, full rebuilds are buIIshit, and I will be jealous of the Royals when they are worthy of.carrying our jockstraps again.  

The Royals, who finished ahead of the Twins as recently as 2021, should be embarrassed for finishing 31 games behind last year's division champs who posted just the seventh-best record in the league..

40 minutes ago, arby58 said:

The Bally TV money was not chump change. Yes, I will give them cover for that. You run businesses based on free cash flow - of course increases in valuation are helpful, but that is, like gains in the stock market, mark to market and not spendable cash. I also suspect that much of the Pohlad fortune is tied up in various assets and investments that are not readily spendable cash. Hence the need to actually, sort of, really, run the baseball operation like a normal business. Having been the budget director of a multi-billion dollar operation, nothing they have done strikes me as worthy of embarrassment on their part.

If you think the Pohlads couldnt  cash flow $10 -20 million dollars you are crazy. And if we want to throw out occupations as credentials I was the CEO of a large financial conglomerate. The TV money is chump change in their world. They chose not to do it. That’s their choice - doesn’t mean they should be immune from criticism. 

7 minutes ago, arby58 said:

Other people's money is easy to spend. Maybe they could 'cashflow' it, but that isn't how businesses operate. It isn't can they do it, but can the business support it. You're thinking like a fan, not a fiduciary. My guess is this LLC's shareholders expect it to not drain their existing cash flow.

I understand exactly how businesses work. TheLLC is the Pohlad family. They can do whatever they want. They made their choice which is their right. Why people want to give them cover for it is beyond me. Put all this aside and ponder what a short term decision this is when your team is coming off their first playoff win and generating some positive momentum. I assume you understand this with all your business acumen. 

46 minutes ago, arby58 said:

Other people's money is easy to spend. I happen to work closely on 501c3 charitable work with a billionaire, and if you think $50 million a year is chump change, then I seriously doubt you hang out with them. Maybe the Pohlads could 'cashflow' it, but that isn't how businesses operate. It isn't can they do it, but can the business support it. You're thinking like a fan, not a fiduciary. 

The loss of income is in the neighborhood of $15million based o recent reporting. They knew they were getting money from a tv deal eventually. That’s like 3-5% of overall revenue. If they can’t absorb that without slashing payroll they should sell the Twins and run the Montgomery Biscuits. I’m thinking like a fiduciary and you are thinking like a Pohlad apologist. 

2 hours ago, Linus said:

It’s a LLC and the only shareholders are the Pohlad family. It’s amazing to me that people want to give the Pohlad family cover for this off season. I’m not speaking directly to you Tony but I’m just dumbfounded by how easily we are accepting the Pohlads handling of this off season. The amount of money required to invest in this team which could be really good is peanuts in the landscape of MLB. Not to mention less than peanuts in terms of the value they have received in the team and their own family fortunes. I also want to note that I have never criticized the Pohlads handling of payroll in prior years. I have not been a Pohlads are cheap guy but this year is a completely different story. They should be embarrassed. Or as Sid used to say they could screw up a two car funeral. 

I was being a bit sarcastic. Sorry. I don't see the commitment I want but find it pointless, just for me, to spend energy on the Pohlads. I'm a baseball fan and realize that the MLB game is a toy for Manfred, the owners, and corporate heads. The players are well-paid pawns, thanks to Curt Flood, Miller, and the MLBPA. Fans come last. 

It has been a disappointing off season.

There is a big difference between spending because your team (the Royals) has been so bad a developing their own talent and the Twins filling a hole or two with a free agent,

The Royals have Bobby Witt and well that's about it for young upcoming players. You kind of have to spend to be completive at that point.

Witt is a special talent. They've made him face of the franchise for a very good reason. Royce Lewis could be that guy for the Twins. But injuries have delayed his progress so extension talks would have been premature before now. But now the TV rights issue has been sorted, it surely is worth exploring an extension with him. 

I certainly don't find it embarrassing that the Royals have outspent us this offseason. It's not as if they went out and signed one of the top free agents - they just agreed to a huge extension with a top, top talent which is happening more often these days.

I doubt the Pohlads are embarrassed to be called cheap and that other owners decide to invest into their team. 

Where we could spend money if we had it is to lock up Lewis for a long time. Because we know he has a bright future & he's connected to us having a bright future. Not nickel & dime us on nothing burgers that do nothing for us. Save your pennies, for something worthwhile & quit doing stupid stuff.