All Bridge Catchers Lead to Victor Caratini

Caratini is owed $10m this year ($7m salary and $3m buyout). That probably keeps him as the starting C and that’s no bueno. I didn’t hate the signing at the time, but he looked cooked.Could be an ugly season behind the dish. 

The pitchers are ready for the club to add a defensive-minded catcher, whether that is Henry Davis, Ben Rortvedt,  or another glove. It is time to wish Ryan Jeffers well and move forward. A bat in the catching position is a luxury. A glove at the catching position is a necessity.

42 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

The pitchers are ready for the club to add a defensive-minded catcher, whether that is Henry Davis, Ben Rortvedt,  or another glove. It is time to wish Ryan Jeffers well and move forward. A bat in the catching position is a luxury. A glove at the catching position is a necessity.

So we'll move on from two below average catchers to one and an unknown? Things are truly looking up. Let's keep in mind it's a short term issue..for a year or four months (or maybe two or three if a labor stoppage lingers.) 

Don't sell the farm for this.

I would like to see them add Carson Kelly if possible. Freddy Fermin, Carlos Narváez or Henry Davis would be good glove trade options.

Joey Bart is a potential non-tender but probably worth his $3M projected award. He seems marginally better than using Alex Jackson. Call the White Sox and offer them cash considerations.

14 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

Folks might be putting a little too much on Lackey's shoulders. It will certainly take a few years to adjust to a big-league staff. If they really want to compete, the Twins are going to need a solution a C for at least the next 2-3 seasons. 

Fair, but it's not all on Lackey.  Catcher is one of, if not the, deepest position we have in the minors.  At some point you have to trust in your development.  (If you can't, then it's time to rehaul your entire development program.)  And it's ok for a young player to struggle.  Yes, there will be a short term sacrifice, but there aren't many quick fixes for their roster issues, and the team needs to make decisions with a view beyond 2027.  

The Twins' operating philosophy has long seemed to be, trust aging vets on short deals vs trust younger players who might not be 100% polished.  I don't think it has worked out very well.  In fact it hasn't worked out very well at the catcher position!  The Twins spent $45m Vasquez and Caratini alone.  If we want different results we have to start doing things differently, in my opinion.   

34 minutes ago, Patzky said:

So we'll move on from two below average catchers to one and an unknown?

If the choice is between this and settling for below average, yes, absolutely.  Why would you want to set a ceiling of below average if you could maybe, just maybe do better?  

35 minutes ago, Patzky said:

So we'll move on from two below average catchers to one and an unknown? Things are truly looking up. Let's keep in mind it's a short term issue..for a year or four months (or maybe two or three if a labor stoppage lingers.) 

Don't sell the farm for this.

Not exactly sure what you are saying. I think you are opposed to trading anything valuable. 

My take is that there are catchers available, similar to an Austin Hedges. Alex Jackson was never used, so it is difficult to know if the Twins trust him. Ben Rortvedt is free. Henry Davis will be available for .... not much. I could live with those two guys or something similar. Neither will hit a lick and people will scream bloody murder, but the pitchers will be happier.

What I have said is that a glove first catcher is a necessity. The Twins have rolled with Garver and Jeffers. Time to get a glove back there. There may be an opportunity for a splash to bring in a better guy but I will stay away from guesses at this time because it is impossible to know how other teams value any of the Twins players.

Caratini will be back if he is not traded and he only gets dealt if he is part of a complex multi-player transaction. This puts the pressure on Zoll to find a solid player who can catch 100+ games. My suggestion - Get to Work Zoll.

@ashbury created a concept he has named the Failure Penalty. He is being nice: my name would be closer to the Incompetence Tax.  Whatever name you prefer, there is no greater illustration than studying the recent history of Twins catching. 

54 minutes ago, Gamblerssoftball said:

I think Alex Jackson may be better than some think. At least he's not a black hole in the lineup. He just didn't get used enough last year to get a good gauge on him. I bet he gets a long look this spring if it's baseball as usual. 

Jackson was put on waivers three times last year and no one claimed him.  I think it is more of a case of his being overvalued in TD land.  I wouldn't mind if he was the third catcher, available in case of injury but I am not sure he should be counted on for more than that.

The Henry Davis idea in interesting. Looking at his stats majors vs minors he doesn't even look like the same guy.

He was the overall number 1 pick in 2021 and in the minors he hit .290/.407/.529 with 11% caught stealing, and in the majors he's hit .178/.265/.300 with 32% caught stealing.

Seems like there should be some offensive upside to his game. Sheltie probably has a pretty good take on whether or not he could help the Twins.

I don't believe that the majority of people on Twins Daily would support the catchers that Cleveland has used or the Dodgers choices when Will Smith went down for a significant period of time. Reading the comments on this thread (and thumbs down) and the dozen others related to Jeffers and catching, it is clear that people struggle with a catcher hitting .180 even when that guy can shut down a running game and block most everything. It is fine to disagree. I will stick to the necessity (word chosen carefully) of using glove-first catchers. Patrick Bailey is a classic example. The Twins under Falvey/Zoll would never accept that bat but it is time to give the pitchers a break. I'm hoping for a change from past practices. Then again I was a pitcher would have said all the right positive comments about my teammates, but been quite depressed with the Twins slugging catchers that are suited for DH. Along the same line of thinking, this is also why I could not bear gloves like Larnach and especially Wallner in the outfield. The moves of Bell to DH, Keaschall to OF, Lee to 3B, and Lewis to 1B gave me some hope for the future. Now it is time to fix the other holes.

32 minutes ago, SE23 said:

Seems like the WAR stat should reflect the value of defensive catchers better than it does. Bailey has won 2 consecutive Gold Gloves and produced only 1.7 and 1.1 WAR for those seasons. 

You probably hit the nail on the head.

Readers/TD members and many others are increasingly married to a multitude of "interesting" statistics. They are ubiquitous in baseball articles and conversations. Not everyone agrees. Not all fans or baseball people. Certainly not Cleveland or the Dodgers. Having devised my own system decades ago as a coach and being aware of moneyball (lowercase is on purpose) from the start, I can be more tuned into an overarching viewpoint and somewhat dismissive of various analytics. I do recognize and respect the work of these guys working to make a living off of baseball articles, which means tons of numbers that folks must sift through to make a judgment on this player or that guy. . One of my questions, asked dozens of times in comments on this site, is whether or not a person commenting has watched the player in game action, either live or via tv/internet, as opposed to numbers and video highlights. That can seem annoying for sure and I don't mean to demean anyone or their opinion but numbers are easily manipulated. We see this in many areas of life. Don't click or read if uninterested. https://www.minnpost.com/community-voices/2026/08/hard-data-and-context-are-missing-in-minnesotas-overblown-fraud-furor/

Here is a question to ask any pitcher, anonymously. Would you prefer Patrick Bailey with his 1.1 WAR or Ryan Jeffers at 2.8, even 3.2 WAR to be your catcher? It's pretty simple really.

The Twins were totally spoiled by Joe Mauer who did it all. It took a life altering concussion and a big salary to raise questions about his place in baseball history but he still was a first ballot Hall of Fame choice. Following his quiet day to day excellence was impossible.

Does anyone even remember Martin Maldonado? Detroit just hired him as a coach.

Defense matters, at least to me.

I really don't understand this conversation.

Jeffers is gone. Just accept it. He is gone. When Caratini was signed to a TWO year deal we knew then that Jeffers was gone. 

Caratini is owed 10 million and is almost untradable as a result without pouring millions down the toilet. He is nearly 100% returning to the role the Twins envisioned when they signed him to a TWO year deal for more money than other teams were willing to pay him. He is our replacement for Jeffers and he will be our primary catcher next year because they already bought the car. 

And now we have continued fixation over who will back him up because we don't like Caratini as a primary.

Those who don't like Caratini as the primary are willing to continue pouring money into the same rabbit hole that produced Caratini in the first place. Some of the same people who have no problem filling roster spots 11 through 13 with pure crap or incomplete specialists and hope they never play are now obsessing over burning more limited financial or trade capital to get a backup catcher hoping he is good enough to make Caratini a 10 million dollar backup. How many times do you have to slam your head into the glass before you realize that the patio door is closed. 

Just punt the Catcher position. I said it last year... I'm saying it again. Get out of this damn rabbit hole. Sleep in the Caratini bed that you made for one more year and then get out of the over paying for limited playing time business and get out of the damn rabbit hole. Get a defensive catcher who can't hit for the backup C position. Alex Jackson is just fine. Listen to what @tony&rodney is saying. 

In the past decade... Castro 24 million, Avila 4 Million, Sanchez 9 million. Vazquez 30 million, Caratini 14 million. 81 million spent in outside help over the past decade. Y'all want to keep spending. 

81 Million has bought us:

208 games (69 games a year average - to be fair. He was hurt for most of 2018) over 3 years of Castro and a combined OPS .715 OPS. .715 OPS is slighty below average for a hitter but really decent for a catcher. (Bang into the patio door glass)

23 games out of Alex Avila. 23 games because of a Covid shortened isn't entirely fair as I continue to make a playing time point in the past decade.  62 AB's isn't exactly fair either but I will list his .641 OPS anyway so I can continue with the point. (Bang into the patio door glass)

We did squeeze 128 games out of Gary Sanchez in 2022. That's a good thing because it's hard to squeeze 128 games out of any catcher. The bad thing is that he was an offensive catcher who produced a .659 OPS. 9 million got us that. (Bang into the patio door glass)

Vazquez who played in a total of 260 games. (87 games a year average) producing a .577 OPS over 3 years. (Bang into the patio door glass)

And of course 14 million for Caratini has so far bought us: 106 games - .627 OPS. (Bang into the patio door glass). 

STOP DOING THIS!!! Look at your head wound. The door isn't going to open. Just punt the catcher position. It's Caratini and Jackson is just fine. Your third catcher is whoever is closest to the majors leagues in the minor league system. And if they fail once again to produce a candidate from the minors for another year. Hit the damn waiver wire and sleep in the bed that you have made. 

I'll bet anyone money... that we will get similar offensive output from whatever defensive no hit catcher we sign. If it's Jackson or whoever we install to play behind Caratini. We will get similar offensive output that we have gotten in the past decade of 81 million in investment. We paid Vazquez almost as much as we paid Nelson Cruz.

Think about it please. 

Get out of the Rabbit Hole. 

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I really don't understand this conversation.

Jeffers is gone. Just accept it. He is gone. When Caratini was signed to a TWO year deal we knew then that Jeffers was gone. 

Caratini is owed 10 million and is almost untradable as a result without pouring millions down the toilet. He is nearly 100% returning to the role the Twins envisioned when they signed him to a TWO year deal for more money than other teams were willing to pay him. He is our replacement for Jeffers and he will be our primary catcher next year because they already bought the car. 

And now we have continued fixation over who will back him up because we don't like Caratini as a primary.

Those who don't like Caratini as the primary are willing to continue pouring money into the same rabbit hole that produced Caratini in the first place. Some of the same people who have no problem filling roster spots 11 through 13 with pure crap or incomplete specialists and hope they never play are now obsessing over burning more limited financial or trade capital to get a backup catcher hoping he is good enough to make Caratini a 10 million dollar backup. How many times do you have to slam your head into the glass before you realize that the patio door is closed. 

Just punt the Catcher position. I said it last year... I'm saying it again. Get out of this damn rabbit hole. Sleep in the Caratini bed that you made for one more year and then get out of the over paying for limited playing time business and get out of the damn rabbit hole. Get a defensive catcher who can't hit for the backup C position. Alex Jackson is just fine. Listen to what @tony&rodney is saying. 

In the past decade... Castro 24 million, Avila 4 Million, Sanchez 9 million. Vazquez 30 million, Caratini 14 million. 81 million spent in outside help over the past decade. Y'all want to keep spending. 

81 Million has bought us:

208 games (69 games a year average - to be fair. He was hurt for most of 2018) over 3 years of Castro and a combined OPS .715 OPS. .715 OPS is slighty below average for a hitter but really decent for a catcher. (Bang into the patio door glass)

23 games out of Alex Avila. 23 games because of a Covid shortened isn't entirely fair as I continue to make a playing time point in the past decade.  62 AB's isn't exactly fair either but I will list his .641 OPS anyway so I can continue with the point. (Bang into the patio door glass)

We did squeeze 128 games out of Gary Sanchez in 2022. That's a good thing because it's hard to squeeze 128 games out of any catcher. The bad thing is that he was an offensive catcher who produced a .659 OPS. 9 million got us that. (Bang into the patio door glass)

Vazquez who played in a total of 260 games. (87 games a year average) producing a .577 OPS over 3 years. (Bang into the patio door glass)

And of course 14 million for Caratini has so far bought us: 106 games - .627 OPS. (Bang into the patio door glass). 

STOP DOING THIS!!! Look at your head wound. The door isn't going to open. Just punt the catcher position. It's Caratini and Jackson is just fine. Your third catcher is whoever is closest to the majors leagues in the minor league system. And if they fail once again to produce a candidate from the minors for another year. Hit the damn waiver wire and sleep in the bed that you have made. 

I'll bet anyone money... that we will get similar offensive output from whatever defensive no hit catcher we sign. If it's Jackson or whoever we install to play behind Caratini. We will get similar offensive output that we have gotten in the past decade of 81 million in investment. We paid Vazquez almost as much as we paid Nelson Cruz.

Think about it please. 

Get out of the Rabbit Hole. 

 

 

And I was going to guess the Incompetence Tax was only around $50 million….sheesh that’s nuts. 

20 hours ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that doesn't work if said catcher cough, cough Vazquez is surrounded by other guys that can't hit. 

I'm agreeing with you.

My suggestion would be to surround cough cough Caratini with other guys who can hit.

Focus on strengthening 1 through 8 in the batting order by focusing on 1 through 11 on the roster. Punt the catcher position. 

Can't do that when we are putting every single egg into the Royce Lewis basket and dying with the consequences and Caratini is the only place to turn.  

Bottom line... if we are trying to improve our offense with the Catcher position. We are idiots. 

I'm also a strong advocate for having or adding a strong defensive catcher behind Caratini.  Defense in CF, at SS and C are crucial to a baseball teams success.  It's kind of like the principle "First Do No Harm."  Jeffers was never, no matter the metric, a good defensive catcher.  And offensively, he was a career .243 hitter with an OPS in the low .700's. 

I'd make him the qualifying offer just to let the Yankees over pay him and give us a compensatory pick at the end of round #1 which I would use on a pitcher with the best raw stuff that I could coach and mold.  As long as I can remember, DEFENSE has been the biggest priority for a catcher.  Mike Piazza was a tremendous hitter.  But I almost wonder if the Dodgers/Marlins/Mets might have gotten more out of him as a 1B.  If the N.L. would have had a DH, he would have been DH'ing with a defensively skilled catcher behind the plate.  Yes, Joe Mauer did indeed spoil us.  

Tony&Rodney makes a great point.  Our Pitchers DESERVE better "catching."  A guy behind the plate who they have the utmost confidence in to keep the ball from going to the backstop and controlling the running game.  Our pitchers also deserve better defense at SS, which they should get in spades once Marek Houston is up, as well as 3B (Lee is a GG candidate) and 2B once Culpepper settles in.  An OF of Buxton, Jenkins and E-Rod will get to more balls than the OF that had Larnach in LF and Wallner in RF.  All this will benefit whoever is on the mound for the Twins.

Riverbrian really laid it out with how much money the Twins have wasted on sub-par catchers.  It's like getting slapped in the face.  Jackson's offense was a one-year-wonder for him.  He will never approach that again.  It would appear that Henry Davis is a tremendous defensive backstop who crushes in the minors, but struggles to hit in the big leagues.  The catching version of Jordan Lawler if you will.  With the cost to acquire him probably very minimal, and Derek Shelton's familiarity with him, he would be a good bridge candidate in my opinion.  Certainly for this season, but even post Caratini, to pair with Vahn Lackey in 2028.  What a treat it would be for future Twins pitching staffs to be able to pitch to outstanding defensive catchers in the future.