Big Shock (Sarcasm): Tanaka to Yankees

[B Richard]

You don't have to like (or dislike) the Yankees just because they (often unwisely) spend massive amounts of money on their team. Championships are championships, but personally I have a lot more respect for teams like the Cardinals or Giants that win through making shrewd moves rather than throwing money at players and hoping for the best (Dodgers, Yankees).

[Mike Sixel]

Really? I have great respect for businesses that use their various assets to achieve their goals. I don't get why there is some mythical "right way" to build a baseball team.

 

To be clear, what you like is your right. I just don't get why you care. All of this is irrational fandom anyway.....

[B Richard]

Really? I have great respect for businesses that use their various assets to achieve their goals. I don't get why there is some mythical "right way" to build a baseball team.

 

To be clear, what you like is your right. I just don't get why you care. All of this is irrational fandom anyway.....

 

 

I never said there was a right way. You are talking about owners, I am talking about GMs. I have more respect for a front office that creatively leverages its resources to make the most out of its means. It requires more creativity and thoughtfulness, in my opinion. There is no right way to win championships. That doesn't mean that you should be upset with the "irrationality" of someone who might appreciate the more subtle aspects of managing a professional baseball organization.

[Brock Beauchamp]

LOL. Do not want.

 

What a horrible contract. Paying a guy Zack Greinke money who hasn't pitched in MLB.

[COtwin]

I know this will seem very conspiratorial. It feels like MLB just bought Tanaka for the Yankees. The first year is paid for already. I hate A-Rod, but I have a feeling that the Yankees are not going to have to pay the remaining 60ish million on his contract. I expect some other suspension or event will cause it to be voided. If this happens then Tanaka is basically free for the Yanks for the first 3-4 years of his contract. And the Yanks have seemed to care about money, lately at least. Teams should have to live with the bad signings they make and the Yankees have a bit of history trying to weasel out of them.

[Willihammer]

The cherry on an outstanding offseason by Cashman. Lots of smart signings IMO

[TheLeviathan]

The cherry on an outstanding offseason by Cashman. Lots of smart signings IMO

 

"Smart" is not the term I would use. Aggressive? Sure. Smart? Um, no.

[Boom Boom]

In the MLB world of no salary cap, "smart moves" are relative to the team that makes them. This is a smarter move for the Yankees to make than the Twins.

 

The Yankees were smart enough not to give Cano the ridiculous money that Seattle is going to have to fork over.

 

The opt-out after 4 years seems like a novel idea. That doesn't typically happen with MLB contracts.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The opt-out after 4 years seems like a novel idea. That doesn't typically happen with MLB contracts.

 

They're becoming more common. The opt-out makes a bad deal even worse for the Yankees.

 

Tanaka is completely unproven. He could be Hideo Nomo as easily (or more easily, probably) than he could be Yu Darvish.

 

And if he becomes Yu Darvish? He gets to opt out after four seasons and play the field as a 28-29 year old.

 

Just a terrible deal all around for the Yankees.

[ashbury]

+ 20 mil posting fee.

 

And if Tanaka does opt out after 4 years, the amortization of that posting fee makes the yearly cost even a bit higher. As with any "interesting" contracts, we don't actually know what the true cost will be until one or more decisions get made down the line.

 

/ edit - I see Brock and I were on the same wavelength.

[DaveW]

"Smart" is not the term I would use. Aggressive? Sure. Smart? Um, no.

The only move I liked was signing McCann. Ellsbury and tanaka will both be disasters IMO

[dgwills]

Man, I just hate the Yankees and what they stand for. I'll admit that a lot of that has to do with them dominating the Twins in the 2000's. Is this a bad idea for them? No, they can afford it. The problem is that it's like your playing chess against someone who gets extra moves every once in a while. Then you find out that half their pieces are taking steroids.

[steve]

There's just simply no way the Twins can compete with the Uber-markets like New York and LA. Those teams get more in their TV deals than the Twins bring in total per year. It's just simply not a level playing field.

 

Hasn't this been true for about 90 years? Weren't the Washington Senators "First in war, first in peace, last in the American League?"

 

Isn't the book The Year the Yankees Lost the Pennant and the play Damn Yankees, all about how unstoppable the Yankees are, and the only way to beat them is to sell your soul to the devil?

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same. There's a certain comfort in that.

[ScrapTheNickname]

This thread illustrates the difference between "NY way of thinking" and "Minnesota way of thinking". Wildcatters do have dry holes--but the winners make up for them.

 

What you say is true, but I don't root for Exxon or Mobile or the Yankees, I grit my teeth, hope to hell all their holes are dry, and go on with my life.

[nicksaviking]

This is a bad deal simply because the market was laughably inflated. Tanaka was not orignially pegged as the top free agent arm, in fact he was originally such a dark horse that the Twins were connected to him.

 

Now a guy who's never pitched in the MLB and has been seriously abused in the NPL in terms of both innings and pitches per game is going to make $50?, $60?, $70 million more than the more accomplished Garza, Jiminez and Santana? Ha, suckers.

 

Sure the Yankees can afford the money, but there's only 25 roster spots, you don't have a ton of flexibility when you have four unmovalbe albatross'.

[tobi0040]

This is a bad deal simply because the market was laughably inflated. Tanaka was not orignially pegged as the top free agent arm, in fact he was originally such a dark horse that the Twins were connected to him.

 

Now a guy who's never pitched in the MLB and has been seriously abused in the NPL in terms of both innings and pitches per game is going to make $50?, $60?, $70 million more than the more accomplished Garza, Jiminez and Santana? Ha, suckers.

 

Sure the Yankees can afford the money, but there's only 25 roster spots, you don't have a ton of flexibility when you have four unmovalbe albatross'.

 

I agree. Garza probably gets 5/75. You know what you are getting with him, a number 2 starter and that is what you are paying.

 

The other crazy thing is they held firm on Cano, the best 2B in the game. Then they give more annually to a question mark. I know Cano's deal was longer, but many think if the Yankees were close to Seattle's offer Cano would have stayed in New York. Over the next 3-4 years you can say that Cano will be the best 2B in the game. You can't say anything like that for Tanaka.

[JB_Iowa]

This is a bad deal simply because the market was laughably inflated. Tanaka was not orignially pegged as the top free agent arm, in fact he was originally such a dark horse that the Twins were connected to him.

 

BINGO!!!!

 

It is amazing how his market value grew. I hope that a few of the guys who have actually pitched in the ML reap some of the fallout.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Why should we be upset with what the Yankees spend? Their fans spend a great deal of money to watch the Yankee BB team to be entertained and the owners invest much of that money in players so their fans can maximize (their) enjoyment. Are you advocating that Yankee owners slash their player budget and pocket as much of that cash as possible?--So other teams can win and have other fans be happy? Hmm, sounds rather short-term thinking to me.

Sounds like the Twins to me...

[johnnydakota]

Yankees have spent half a BILLION dollars this winter & still have Kelly Johnson likely starting at 3B & Brian Roberts at 2B, plus the farm system is a mess and nearly everyone is an injury waiting to happen in their lineup. This signing is just another bad move for a franchise that clearly has no idea what it is doing year in and year out.

 

And how many championships? and they have lost 96 or more games for the last 3 years?

If they have no idea what they are doing , what about our own Twins? hahahaha you funny

[PseudoSABR]

That this is evidence of either an outstanding Yankee's offseason or the Twins systemic failures in free agency doesn't really fly with me. It isn't just money the Yankees are throwing at Tanaka, it also affects how players will enter in negotation with them. And the Yankees wonder why Cano insisted on 300 million? That he didn't get it, and Seattle gave him a less-absurd contract, doesn't make the Yankees smart. Cano is worth far more to the Yankees both in terms of brand and production, and it's the Yankees who are mostly at fault for pricing Cano out of their acceptable budget.

 

Maybe things go alright for the Yankees the next couple of years. But don't be surprised when McCann moves from behind the plate, Ellbury's wheels continue to slow and break down, and Tanaka unforseeably gives up a succession of gopher balls in Yankee's stadium, people point back to this offseason as the end of the Cashman era.

[TheLeviathan]

The Yankees were smart enough not to give Cano the ridiculous money that Seattle is going to have to fork over.

 

So it was smart not to give Cano that much money? Where does this smart/not-smart threshold happen exactly?

 

The Yankees have ended up giving almost as much per year to a guy with a 108 OPS+ over his career (heavily weighted by a flukey season) and a guy whose never thrown a pitch in the majors as they would have to retain a player who has been a 140 OPS+ guy for the last four years.

 

Sorry, but that's stupid.

[Brock Beauchamp]

So it was smart not to give Cano that much money? Where does this smart/not-smart threshold happen exactly?

 

The Yankees have ended up giving almost as much per year to a guy with a 108 OPS+ over his career (heavily weighted by a flukey season) and a guy whose never thrown a pitch in the majors as they would have to retain a player who has been a 140 OPS+ guy for the last four years.

 

Sorry, but that's stupid.

 

Let's not forget the worth Cano brings off the field in New York, as Pseudo just mentioned. He has been the best player and the face of the franchise over the past several seasons as the rest of the team aged into mediocrity or retired.

 

Outside of McCann, I can't understand what the Yankees are thinking but as a fan of another team, I think it's great because they've really worked hard on saddling themselves with albatross contracts this offseason.

[thetank]

Starting in the mid-1990s the Yanks farm system produced Jeter, Posada, Pettite and Rivera. These four players were the core for the Yankees for many years except for the couple of years Pettite went to the Asros. Cano came later but was a key development. Here's hoping the Yankees can't buy a pennant.

[tobi0040]

Let's not forget the worth Cano brings off the field in New York, as Pseudo just mentioned. He has been the best player and the face of the franchise over the past several seasons as the rest of the team aged into mediocrity or retired.

 

Outside of McCann, I can't understand what the Yankees are thinking but as a fan of another team, I think it's great because they've really worked hard on saddling themselves with albatross contracts this offseason.

 

I would analyze the Yankees off-season this way. I think their main goal was signing Cano but not giving out a 10 year deal at $200+ million. I think they would have, but they were playing poker and thought he wasn't really going to leave. So they lost that hand of poker, then had a knee jerk reaction and overpaid a bunch of other players.

 

Ellsbury has missed 250 games in the last four years and they gave him a 7 year deal, through 38. He has 65 career HR and 32 of those were in one year. Tanaka has not thrown a pitch here. They are paying for Beltran through ages 36-39. I think at the beginning of the off-season they would have preferred Cano to these guys.

 

Big picture, when the Yankees could land anyone they wanted they assembled good teams every year. Now the Dodgers, Tigers, Rangers, and Red Sox spend money and the Yankees lack of farm system has been exposed.

[BigTrane]

Personally, I don't give a rip about Yanquis' historic spending habits, or Tanakas' '14 projections.

 

That's why I liked the 8 mil jibe- too true to Twins form.

 

The funny thing is, we have 83m on the books, so to give him 25/yr = 108. How far does that exceed the 2010 'cap"?

 

The kicker: he gets an opt-out at year four (!), and dollars to donuts, he takes it. Bargaining-wise, I'd guess Twins went short on years and failed to call his bluff.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The funny thing is, we have 83m on the books, so to give him 25/yr = 108. How far does that exceed the 2010 'cap"?

 

So the Twins should dedicate 25% of their payroll to a guy who hasn't pitched an MLB game and whose arm has been abused in NPB?

 

I do not, and never will, understand the argument of "if you have the money, spend it... doesn't matter if it's foolishly or not".

[DaveW]

That's why I liked the 8 mil jibe- too true to Twins form.

 

It's a tired and wayyyyyyyyyy over used meme at this point "The Twins are historically cheap, derp!" It really adds nothing to the conversation, and the amount of money they gave Nolasco and Hughes actually contradicts that whole statement (This isn't even bringing up the fact that a couple years ago they backed up the brinks truck for Joe Mauer, whose contract is actually pretty similar to Tanaka) If the Twins thought it was a good investment, they would have given Tanaka the money, fortunately (IMO) they didn't think it was a good investment.

[DaveW]

Let's not forget the worth Cano brings off the field in New York, as Pseudo just mentioned. He has been the best player and the face of the franchise over the past several seasons as the rest of the team aged into mediocrity or retired.

 

Cano is a 6.0-7.0 WAR player at this stage of his career, replacing him with Brian Roberts hasn't produced a WAR above 1.3 in 5 years, that is a significant loss. As much as we all hate A-Rod, when healthy (Big if) he is still prob a 2.5-3.0 WAR player, Kelly Johnson IMO will be lucky to reach 1.5 WAR.

 

And yes, I realize that there is a lot more that WAR that goes into team wins and losses.

 

Ellsbury is a 4.5-5.0 WAR player IF and its a big If he stays healthy. McCann is a 4 WAR player (Again I like this move) and frankly Tanaka could be anything from a 1.5-3.5 WAR guy this year IMO.

 

I really don't like this off-season one bit for them, they ended up spending a ton more money (especially when you consider A-Rods contract will likely be back on the books in 2015) and I honestly don't think they got any better. Especially when you realize they lost Cano, Rivera, Pettite and A-Rod for 2014. Can't wait to see them finish 4th in that division, I see lots of summer days at Yankee stadium with me and my buddies where tickets will be about $5 each.

[johnnydakota]

So the Twins should dedicate 25% of their payroll to a guy who hasn't pitched an MLB game and whose arm has been abused in NPB?

 

I do not, and never will, understand the argument of "if you have the money, spend it... doesn't matter if it's foolishly or not".

 

How about the argument that if you dont pay ,you dont play(in the post season)?

it is better to bank money then to put a quality product on the field?

or finally how about this...

If you pay them , they will come....

[The Wise One]

How about the argument that if you dont pay ,you dont play(in the post season)?

it is better to bank money then to put a quality product on the field?

or finally how about this...

If you pay them , they will come....

 

The Rays say hello. As do the A's. I do not think it is a real stretch to say the Cardinals would like to remind you they don't need the overpaying of players to get a ring. It is all about well managing your avenues of resources so as to not have to do the extreme.