Article: Twins Trade Doumit to Braves

[DaveW]

Sorry, I was thinking more along the lines of signing Suzuki or Buck. (I didn't make that clear).

 

Doumit already said he wouldn't catch this year regardless, right?

[zenser]

Does this amp up the search for a catcher now? How soon will they sign a John Buck or Kurt Suzuki?

[notoriousgod71]

I haven't looked at his stats since being drafted but it's funny because Gilmartin was my prediction (along with many others) to be the Twins draft choice prior to the 2011 draft.

 

And now looking at his stats it's obvious he fits everything that the Twins look for in a pitcher.

 

More hits than IP? Check.

 

Few BB? Check.

 

Mediocre K rate? Check.

 

Fastball velocity under 95? Check.

 

Why even bother? If he's anything more than Nick Blackburn (or Scott Diamond since they're both lefties and from the Braves organization) I'll be shocked.

 

I realize Doumit has no value but he is a carbon copy of 99 percent of the pitchers in this organization.

[nicksaviking]

One of the best things about this to me is that being drafted in 2011, Gilmartin shouldn't require a 40 man spot. I'm not big on soft-tossing lefties, but I'm just fine getting rid of the Twins expendable players in exchange for guys who are only one year removed from positive endorsements.

[Boom Boom]

I'm glad to offload Doumit, but this Gilmartin guy looks like AAA filler, another Pedro Hernandez at best. My opinion of the trade - "Meh".

[halfchest]

I'm not sure you guys have a grip on how bad Gilmartin has become. Think Alex Wimmers from the left side.

 

Really? That doesn't make any sense. The only thing they have in common is they were 1st round picks expected to fast track to the majors. Wimmers has 77 career minor league innings over just over 3 years. Gilmartin has 285 over just over 2 years. Now he's not someone to get overly excited about but at least has potential to be a big league starter still. Was the Braves top 5 guy a year ago. I'm not gonna let one bad year for a 23 year old make me think he's worthless. Better return than I would have ever expected for Doumit.

[PseudoSABR]

Darren Wolfson ‏@DarrenWolfson 8m Confirmed: #Braves taking all of Doumit's $3.5M. This is a great move by the #MNTwins.

[stringer bell]

According to espn, Gilmartin isn't on the 40-man roster. This means the Twins won't have to DFA anyone to put Pelfrey on the 40-man. Gilmartin, Albers, Diamond, and Johnson all look like the same guy to me.

[JB_Iowa]

Doumit already said he wouldn't catch this year regardless, right?

 

I think it was Parker (or one of the other main TD guys) who posted something in the last day or so quoting Doumit's agent as saying he wanted to catch in 2014.

 

I've got to think that they are very close to signing either Suzuki or Buck. I'd think that they'd want to clear up the Doumit situation before they signed one of them. But it also doesn't escape me that Braves execs have been in the TC in the last few days touring Target Field so that may have more to do with the timing than anything.

 

EDIT: And GREAT POINT stringerbell about clearing space for Pelfrey.

[PseudoSABR]

Have to think maybe Albers and even Diamond are on sketchy ground, after the Twins acquired a non-roster clone...

[biggentleben]

Sure, but if the Braves just traded Doumit and his contract back to the Twins for Wimmers, you'd certainly be hyped the Braves obtained a buy low former first rounder, no matter how remote that ceiling is or how distant that prospect status in the past.

 

Oy, no. Not at all. I may love the Braves, but I don't love every move they make and every guy wearing their uniform. I'm not a Doumit fan at all, but I'm not a Gilmartin fan at all either, so it's a wash for me, I guess.

[Mike Sixel]

In exchange for a guy they had no room for, that they were paying millions of dollars, who would not be on the roster after next year, on a team that wants to sign more FAs and have a full 40 man roster........that team got even a AAA player for that guy? Good trade, even if Gilmartin never gets out of AAA.

[zchrz]

I would think Diamond is gone for sure with the addition of Gilmartin and Johnson, so Deduno for the 5th spot if hes healthy and Worley to the pen?

[nicksaviking]

I haven't looked at his stats since being drafted but it's funny because Gilmartin was my prediction (along with many others) to be the Twins draft choice prior to the 2011 draft.

 

And now looking at his stats it's obvious he fits everything that the Twins look for in a pitcher.

 

More hits than IP? Check.

 

Few BB? Check.

 

Mediocre K rate? Check.

 

Fastball velocity under 95? Check.

 

Why even bother? If he's anything more than Nick Blackburn (or Scott Diamond since they're both lefties and from the Braves organization) I'll be shocked.

 

I realize Doumit has no value but he is a carbon copy of 99 percent of the pitchers in this organization.

 

I would have given Doumit away to clear roster space, I'm not sure what the gripe is. I'm not a Gilmartin fan, but still I love this. Just because I don't think the guy has much of a ceiling, I can recognize that others see his potential. Besides, getting a pitcher who made it to AAA in only two professional years seems more impressive than the Twins stable of pitchers who took closer to a decade to get there.

 

Besides, Jonathan Mayo still ranks him the Braves #4 prospect. That seems high to me but so what? The Twins are lucky to get a top #15 prospect for Doumit.

[DaveW]

Looks like a good trade to me, everyone likes it except the Braves fan.

I think the Wimmers crack is a little ridiculous personally. He is still only 23, his 2012 wasn't bad and he had a rough 2013. Perfect buy low move.

 

You can never have enough pitching! At the very least he adds org depth, at best he becomes Scott Diamond lite if needed (or if Diamond hits arb)

[biggentleben]

Really? That doesn't make any sense. The only thing they have in common is they were 1st round picks expected to fast track to the majors. Wimmers has 77 career minor league innings over just over 3 years. Gilmartin has 285 over just over 2 years. Now he's not someone to get overly excited about but at least has potential to be a big league starter still. Was the Braves top 5 guy a year ago. I'm not gonna let one bad year for a 23 year old make me think he's worthless. Better return than I would have ever expected for Doumit.

 

Not sure who had him top 5, but it would be someone who valued "close to majors" over "upside". The comparison is apt as Gilmartin has lost a LOT from the guy he was pre-draft as has Wimmers.

[Pius Jefferson]

What about the possibility of Gilmartin to the bullpen and trading Duensing for offense?

[DaveW]

I haven't looked at his stats since being drafted but it's funny because Gilmartin was my prediction (along with many others) to be the Twins draft choice prior to the 2011 draft.

 

And now looking at his stats it's obvious he fits everything that the Twins look for in a pitcher.

 

More hits than IP? Check.

 

Few BB? Check.

 

Mediocre K rate? Check.

 

Fastball velocity under 95? Check.

 

Why even bother? If he's anything more than Nick Blackburn (or Scott Diamond since they're both lefties and from the Braves organization) I'll be shocked.

 

I realize Doumit has no value but he is a carbon copy of 99 percent of the pitchers in this organization.

 

FWIW: Blackburn gave the Twins 5.4 WAR over two years, and Diamond gave them a 2.3 WAR a year ago. If he equals either one of those guys it would be a great thing frankly. One or two years as a CHEAP #5 has value. (It can allow you to not sign veterans for $5-$6 mil to fill those spots)

[Steve Lein]

Interesting, I thought the Twins would draft him in 2011 if he was there, but was grabbed a few spots in front of them.

 

I actually like the return, though Gilmartin has far from lived up to his 1st round pedigree. It's always good to have some lefty options though, especially for the Twins right now.

[notoriousgod71]

I would have given Doumit away to clear roster space, I'm not sure what the gripe is. I'm not a Gilmartin fan, but still I love this. Just because I don't think the guy has much of a ceiling, I can recognize that others see his potential. Besides, getting a pitcher who made it to AAA in only two professional years seems more impressive than the Twins stable of pitchers who took closer to a decade to get there.

 

Besides, Jonathan Mayo still ranks him the Braves #4 prospect. That seems high to me but so what? The Twins are lucky to get a top #15 prospect for Doumit.

 

While Doumit had very little value to the Twins because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have, Gilmartin has that same little value because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have.

 

Basically it's just cutting salary which doesn't get me excited as a fan.

[biggentleben]

Besides, Jonathan Mayo still ranks him the Braves #4 prospect. That seems high to me but so what? The Twins are lucky to get a top #15 prospect for Doumit.

 

Mayo hasn't updated his rankings since preseason.

 

Gilmartin was #14 in John Sickels' top 20 and in the rankings the site I write for put together.

[tcarlic]

Not sure who had him top 5, but it would be someone who valued "close to majors" over "upside". The comparison is apt as Gilmartin has lost a LOT from the guy he was pre-draft as has Wimmers.

 

Baseball America and MLB.com had him in the top 5.

[gunnarthor]

John Sickels wrote this about Gilmartin two weeks ago:

14) Sean Gilmartin, LHP, Grade C+: Ugly season in Triple-A (5.74 ERA, 112 hits in 91 innings) was marred by shoulder problems. If healthy, profiles as a strike-throwing fourth starter who gets by on feel and moxie rather than pure stuff.

 

Twins have been linked to him for a while now - since the draft - so they must have some pretty strong scouting reports on him. It's a sensible move. If he gives us one Diamond like season, it's a win. It'd be great if every pitcher was Alex Meyer but they can't all be. Gilmartin is reasonably close to ML ready.

[DaveW]

While Doumit had very little value to the Twins because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have, Gilmartin has that same little value because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have.

 

Basically it's just cutting salary which doesn't get me excited as a fan.

 

Big difference.

 

A major league team has 11-12 pitchers on a roster, while only 1-3 DH/Backup DH types at most.

 

Pitching is always at a premium.

[Jeremy Nygaard]

I remember the 2011 draft unfolding and, as the Twins approached their pick at 30, being really unhappy about them potentially taking Gilmartin. I knew they liked him and he totally fit what they did in the draft. When he went at 28, I breathed a huge sigh of relief... and then they took Levi Michael.

 

The Braves went on to give Gilmartin $1.134m as a signing bonus and got a pitcher that was considered near major-league ready by the end of his first full season.

 

Yes, Gilmartin was brutal in 2013 and doesn't profile as the same pitcher he did a year ago, but the Twins got him when his value was low and were able to get the Braves to take Doumit's full salary back? That move is impossible for Twins fans not to like.

[halfchest]

Not sure who had him top 5, but it would be someone who valued "close to majors" over "upside". The comparison is apt as Gilmartin has lost a LOT from the guy he was pre-draft as has Wimmers.

 

oh just Fangraphs, BA (actually #4) and MLB.com Jerod Mayo. No one who knows anything.

 

You may be right that he's not worth much but he has the potential too. This from mlbtraderumors is interesting too.

 

"Gilmartin struggled through injuries and posted a 5.06 ERA across three levels in 2013, averaging 6.9 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9 in a total of 105 innings. Selected with the No. 28 overall pick in the 2011 draft, Gilmartin draws praise for his polish from both BA and MLB.com. BA writes that his 89-91 mph fastball has good movement and is complemented by a plus changeup and a slider with "sharp, late break." According to Mayo, "[Gilmartin's] ceiling is somewhat limited, but he's not far from being ready to step in as a middle-of-the-rotation type in the big leagues."

 

Now if that Mayo quote is to be believed then this is a great move for the Twins a mid rotation guy is nothing to sneeze at considering the Twins have just committed like 85 million to essentially two 3-4 starters (Hughes/Pelfrey) and one 2-3 starter (Nolasco) this offseason. That might be overvaluing these three guys two It could be argued none of them are better than 3 type starter. Anyhow, I like the move, don't see the Wimmers comp. Sure both have lost value but Wimmers almost never had it. At least Gilmartin had a solid 2012 campaign.

[Seth Stohs]

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.php/2549-Twins-Trade-Doumit

[Brandon]

The thing about Gilmartin is he is not out of options come spring so if he gets sent down big deal. He will likely replace Worely or Diamond after springtraining when they get DFA'd because they have no remaining options. good move to pre-emptively replace the depth.

[notoriousgod71]

FWIW: Blackburn gave the Twins 5.4 WAR over two years, and Diamond gave them a 2.3 WAR a year ago. If he equals either one of those guys it would be a great thing frankly. One or two years as a CHEAP #5 has value. (It can allow you to not sign veterans for $5-$6 mil to fill those spots)

 

I've mentioned my hatred of WAR many times. Blackburn was somehow a positive WAR player in 2010 also despite his 5.42 ERA and terrible peripherals across the board. The scary thing about pitchers like this are that one fluke season can fool the Twins brass into thinking they are viable pitchers and then we are stuck watching them for another three years while there are better candidates.

[Mike Sixel]

While Doumit had very little value to the Twins because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have, Gilmartin has that same little value because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have.

 

Basically it's just cutting salary which doesn't get me excited as a fan.

 

and it clears a roster space. And it makes it more likely a better backup catcher will be around. And it makes it more likely the DH will be better than Doumit.

 

I do agree, if all it does is save money, that will bother me as a fan.....but that is not all it does.