The team's next manager

[The Wise One]

Sabremtrics do not create a baseball star. Miguel Cabrera and Mike Trout are stars in every era. The only application of sabrmetrics to star athletes is whether Trout is better than Cabrera, not whether one is a star while the other is not.

 

Where the real gains in sabrmetrics comes is from guys like Mario Mendoza, guys who we now know have zero business being on a Major League roster, much receive 1500 PAs in a career.

 

And you said "metrics do not improve play" and I disagree. They most certainly improve play by filling out rosters with capable baseball players instead of Mario Mendozas. The stars of the game don't change much but everyone around them does.

 

Adam Rosales. Same career batting average as Mendoza. Even played for the Oakland team for a few years. 6 years and still going at 1000 AB. Poor players still find there way to a career with the metrics.

[ThePuck]

Adam Rosales. Same career batting average as Mendoza. Even played for the Oakland team for a few years. 6 years and still going at 1000 AB. Poor players still find there way to a career with the metrics.

 

Close to the same BA, not quite...and much closer to 900 PAs than 1000 PAs (and only 819 ABs). Then we look and see Rosales has a career OPS of .624 while Mendoza is at .507. Certainly we can't consider these two close.

[jokin]

Close to the same BA, not quite...and much closer to 900 PAs than 1000 PAs (and only 819 ABs). Then we look and see Rosales has a career OPS of .624 while Mendoza is at .507. Certainly we can't consider these two close.

 

Rosales career: OPS+ 70/wOBA .270/career WAR +1.5

Mendoza career: OPS+ 38/wOBA .232/career WAR -2.4

 

Next time, let's consider apples with apples........and actual Sabremetrics, not Cybermetrics.

[SweetOne69]

Spam got better.

Gardy does not talk bad about his players in public.

 

You must not follow too many Twins games. Gardy throws players under the bus in public all the time (especially those he doesn't like).

[Cc-twinsball]

Brad Ausmus. Baseball mind, would be a good players coach. just a candidate I think we should consider, if gardy and the twins do move on

[The Wise One]

Rosales career: OPS+ 70/wOBA .270/career WAR +1.5

Mendoza career: OPS+ 38/wOBA .232/career WAR -2.4

 

Next time, let's consider apples with apples........and actual Sabremetrics, not Cybermetrics.

 

6 years in the majors and a career war of 1.5 and still on a current major league roster. ****ty player pure and simple. They exist in in this day and age. Not as bad as Mendoza, but not anything good either. That was the point. ****ty players still populate the roster for multiple seasons and play a significant amount of time. Took me less than a minute to find this player. Tried a little harder, Juan Castro, Andy Sheets, Luis Lopez.... There really is a long list of negative WAR player that played a long time in the majors recently. Some could hit just enough to get a chance. Since Mendoza retired there have been 17 players, including Delmon Young, to have a career WAR less than -2.4. Mendoza by the way did not have 1500 PA for a career, but why be like some and pick nits when it doesn't change the point.

John Moses made the list. He played for the Twins. It was his best 2 years. A bit of irony I couldn't resist.

[CGNikolic]

Why does Gardenhire have to go? Could any manager really do better with this "crop" of players the past two years (won't count 2011 - very much bad luck then turned to crap subsequently)? I would say, at the most, the Twins talk to him about reshuffling his staff (Rick Anderson being the only one who has a possibility of getting fired). The problem is not Gardenhire. The problem is that the FO (Smith and Ryan and scouting) have not given him the players any manager needs to succeed.

 

I don't see Ryan getting fired, but that would likely bring about more success than bringing in a new manager. Who would they hire to replace him anyway (everyone knows that Ryan would hire someone who is similar to Gardy)? Glynn or Ullger? People who are quite similar to Gardenhire? Mauer or Dougie? Guys who have no coaching experience above class A? Molitor? Who has never managed before? They have no shot at someone like Maddon, even a cheap organization such as the Rays won't let the best manager in baseball out of their hands (and Ryan and Maddon would NOT get along).

 

So, there really is no reason to fire him. Partly because the failure of the Twins has not been his fault and the fact that there is no replacement for him that would do better. HOWEVER, I would not be surprised if Gardenhire resigns one of these days. He gets no respect from the fans or front office. If I were him, I would definitely consider this option, and as a fan I would prefer to see him leave on his own terms than being fired.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Gardy does not talk bad about his players in public. We can only guess what he says in private. The Twins still score runs in the late innings when they are far behind, even this rag-tag bunch of hitters. That's a sign that they are still trying. That's a sign that Gardy's leadership still works.

 

Huh? I can find dozens of examples this year about things Gardy has said about his players in public, and I'm pretty sure the drive to win is why players are still trying... that is if you want to call the baseball they've played lately as trying.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Sabremtrics do not create a baseball star. Miguel Cabrera and Mike Trout are stars in every era. The only application of sabrmetrics to star athletes is whether Trout is better than Cabrera, not whether one is a star while the other is not.

 

Where the real gains in sabrmetrics comes is from guys like Mario Mendoza, guys who we now know have zero business being on a Major League roster, much receive 1500 PAs in a career.

 

And you said "metrics do not improve play" and I disagree. They most certainly improve play by filling out rosters with capable baseball players instead of Mario Mendozas. The stars of the game don't change much but everyone around them does.

 

There's this kid named Drew Butera who has managed about 500 ML at bats and managed to get traded for a nice prospect

[diehardtwinsfan]

Spam got better.

 

Most of mine these days is women I've never met saying they want me and job offers for 6+ figure salaries and 10 hour work weeks. I guess it has improved over my long lost rich uncle from Nigeria who has left me millions.

 

[MichiganTwins]

Gardy definitely talks bad about his players.

[Shane Wahl]

Gardy definitely talks bad about his players.

 

Yeah as a GM or owner, there is no way I would tolerate this.

[Kwak]

Gardy definitely talks bad about his players.

 

How many of you watching at home "speak badly about players"? I do! How many of you post negative comments about players? I do! So if Gardy wants to trash somebody--well maybe that guy actually earned it!

[glunn]

How many of you watching at home "speak badly about players"? I do! How many of you post negative comments about players? I do! So if Gardy wants to trash somebody--well maybe that guy actually earned it!

 

It seems to me that a manager should confine any negative comments to the clubhouse. What good can come from the manager making a negative comment about a player in public? Why can't this be handled in the clubhouse?

 

I don't get Twins postgame shows on my cable channels, but I do get to see Scosia and he seems to avoid making negative comments about players in public. I wonder how other managers handle this.

[Highabove]

Comments from Phil Miller's Column last night

"Ron Gardenhire sounded like a manager who wonders how much his team cares. He clearly wants to make life difficult for teams in the pennant race, but his players don't seem all that interested"

If true, why is this being tolerated by the Manger and the GM?

I guess the players could care less.

[old nurse]

Comments from Phil Miller's Column last night

"Ron Gardenhire sounded like a manager who wonders how much his team cares. He clearly wants to make life difficult for teams in the pennant race, but his players don't seem all that interested"

If true, why is this being tolerated by the Manger and the GM?

I guess the players could care less.

 

For the most part you are starting players who have no mlb jobs lined up for next year. If they do not play like they care, they can start them out in the minors or not re-sign the 4AAAA players. I would think they have a clue that they should be playing like their job is on the line.

Albers has pitch a lot more innings than he ever has his career. He might be getting a little deader of an arm.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

How many of you watching at home "speak badly about players"? I do! How many of you post negative comments about players? I do! So if Gardy wants to trash somebody--well maybe that guy actually earned it!

I do too, and I don't blame Gardy for the frustration showing. However I don't like it, I hold the manager to a higher standard, fair or not.

[beckmt]

Of the players currently playing, my guess is that Thomas, Mastro, Collebella, Parmelee, Diamond, DeVires, Hendriks will not be here next year. The maybe category includes Herrmann, Plouffe, one of Willingham or Doumit, Albers, Pelfrey, Deduno and most of the players just called up and added to the 40 man roster. This should be quite a turnover.

That is not the issue and Gardy may have called it, the players do not care, if that is the case and even though I am a Gardy supporter, the manager has to go, players are no longer playing hard for him.

[Mike Sixel]

So Grady can't motivate this group, they do not do the fundamentals well, and he is starting to publicly call them out, and people want to keep Grady?

[ThePuck]

Comments from Phil Miller's Column last night

"Ron Gardenhire sounded like a manager who wonders how much his team cares. He clearly wants to make life difficult for teams in the pennant race, but his players don't seem all that interested"

If true, why is this being tolerated by the Manger and the GM?

I guess the players could care less.

 

Do you have a link for that?

[Thrylos]

Comments from Phil Miller's Column last night

"Ron Gardenhire sounded like a manager who wonders how much his team cares. He clearly wants to make life difficult for teams in the pennant race, but his players don't seem all that interested"

.

 

 

That's Gardy's bad... if he cannot motivate his players, he should go. If he has certain unmotivated players, he should sit their rear ends until they get motivated. He can do it, instead of whining to the press about it.

 

He so has to go. Lost his team.

[old nurse]

So Grady can't motivate this group, they do not do the fundamentals well, and he is starting to publicly call them out, and people want to keep Grady?

 

Perhaps you should read the article. It is on the stib website

[Highabove]

Do you have a link for that?

 

Phil Miller 9/15 Second Story "Twin don't reward faithful who stuck around"

 

6-4-3 | Star Tribune

[howieramone1406390264]

That's Gardy's bad... if he cannot motivate his players, he should go. If he has certain unmotivated players, he should sit their rear ends until they get motivated. He can do it, instead of whining to the press about it.

 

He so has to go. Lost his team.

How many on this team are you projecting to be on the opening day roster in 2015? It's no secret we are holding open auditions, hoping to find a diamond in the rough or a Diamond/Pelfrey/Albers to show where they belong in the pecking order, if at all. At absolute worst they are experiencing a temporary leadership void due to the M & M boys being unavailable.

[LaBombo]

How many on this team are you projecting to be on the opening day roster in 2015? It's no secret we are holding open auditions, hoping to find a diamond in the rough or a Diamond/Pelfrey/Albers to show where they belong in the pecking order, if at all. At absolute worst they are experiencing a temporary leadership void due to the M & M boys being unavailable.

Can you think of another franchise in baseball that would even consider bringing back Ron Gardenhire after three consecutive 90-loss seasons?

 

And think carefully. It hasn't happened with a non-expansion franchise in over 30 years.

[howieramone1406390264]

Can you think of another franchise in baseball that would even consider bringing back Ron Gardenhire after three consecutive 90-loss seasons?

 

And think carefully. It hasn't happened with a non-expansion franchise in over 30 years.

 

In the big picture of things I really don't care if Gardy comes back or not. My only concern is the Twins start winning again while I'm still young and good looking. I believe the decision has already been made and what happens between now and the end of the season, really only impacts the individual players, as it should.

[ThePuck]

Phil Miller 9/15 Second Story "Twin don't reward faithful who stuck around"

 

6-4-3 | Star Tribune

 

Thanks :-)

[old nurse]

So Grady can't motivate this group, they do not do the fundamentals well, and he is starting to publicly call them out, and people want to keep Grady?

I guess he got them motivated today.