Trading Beloved Players

[Chris Schad]

I get an increasing feeling that this trade deadline is going to tug at the heartstrings of several Twins fans. The biggest blow would be the trade that sends Justin Morneau packing, but they've already had a couple with fan favorites Denard Span and Ben Revere dating back to last winter.

 

I talked about it here and basically asked this:

 

Twins fans gripe when players like Morneau are traded and say they're "important to the team." The Twins have lost 90 games and each of the last two seasons and are likely headed to a third. On a team on that, just how valuable are they?

 

Y! SPORTS

[ThePuck]

Baseball players are part of a 25 man roster with players being rotated in and out on it. They all need to do their jobs to win. It's not like basketball where a guy like Jordan, Kobe and Lebron can really just take over a game. Can't just say, well this baseball player can't be too valuable or we'd be winning. He could be having a great season, we'd still be losing. In part, because, well, he can't pitch.

[Monkeypaws]

I'd rather keep Morneau than trade him for middling prospects. It would be nice to see the Twins allow at least one player to stay with dignity instead of trading them off like chattel, especially a former MVP.

 

Maybe I'm to sentimental to be a good sports owner, but wouldn't it be fitting to have Morneau rediscover his power and come to Target Field next summer as another ex-Twin All Star.

[cmb0252]

I'd rather keep Morneau than trade him for middling prospects. It would be nice to see the Twins allow at least one player to stay with dignity instead of trading them off like chattel, especially a former MVP.

 

Maybe I'm to sentimental to be a good sports owner, but wouldn't it be fitting to have Morneau rediscover his power and come to Target Field next summer as another ex-Twin All Star.

 

That's if he ever discovers his power, which at this point, is a big if. Morny isn't getting younger and trading him not only has a chance of bringing something in but gives him a chance to play for a ring. At least it give Twins fans something to cheer in the playoffs after another horrid season.

[stringer bell]

I'd rather keep Morneau than trade him for middling prospects. It would be nice to see the Twins allow at least one player to stay with dignity instead of trading them off like chattel, especially a former MVP.

 

Maybe I'm to sentimental to be a good sports owner, but wouldn't it be fitting to have Morneau rediscover his power and come to Target Field next summer as another ex-Twin All Star.

Cuddy and Kubel played out their contracts and left. Going back a bit further, so did Torii. Is that what you want? Or, do you want the Twins to retain Morneau for more years? IMHO, keeping Morneau for any more than half of his current salary is throwing good money after bad.

[Riverbrian]

I'll miss the guy... I've been a Morneau fan since I was begging for him to come up and replace Meintkewicz.

 

Fans who don't follow the team as closely... Like my Dad... Are not gonna like it. There are more of them... Than there are of us.

 

With that said... Unless you are serious about re-signing Justin... You trade him.

[Monkeypaws]

Trading Justin to a contender would be nice for him, for sure.

 

OTOH. I think we often see guys over the hill before they actually are.

 

The Ex-Twins team would mop up the floor with the current team.

[Thrylos]

I am ok with not trading Morneau if they do not get any real prospects and agree to an extension for next season with a contract like they gave Thome (because this is what he is worth right now) with additional incentives if he finds his lost power. But he will not sign for that. It is a 2 way street. The Twins cannot afford to overpay for the ghost of Morneau's past; someone will. Morneau will take it.

 

So it not the Twins' fault all the way. They got to trade him...

[old nurse]

Trading Justin to a contender would be nice for him, for sure.

 

OTOH. I think we often see guys over the hill before they actually are.

 

The Ex-Twins team would mop up the floor with the current team.

 

A starting rotation of Liriano, Dickey, Gaza, Lohse, and Marquis.

Ramos, Garrett Jones, Cuddy, Hardy, Valencia, Span, Revere, Gomez, Hunter, and Kubel. Bullpen is Breslow, Crain, Balfour, Guerier, Mijares (lefty)and Nathan. National league team since that is where most players went to . Cuddyer would have to try 2b again. Joe Benson, Delmon Young and Nishi on the bench just to irritate some people.

Payroll at about 120 million.

[old nurse]

Unless some coach or manager thinks they know the answer to where to find Morneau's lost power I don't think there will be much of a market. It has been a few years for the power numbers.

[old nurse]

Have the Twins become historically bad at developing infielders or what?

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think the thing that will hurt about seeing Morneau go more than anything else is the return they will get for him. Trading Justin is the right decision, as is trading Perk if the right package comes along.

[TheLeviathan]

I remember being very sad as a kid when Knoblauch was traded. Then I realized what a jerk he was and how much that deal propelled us back to relevancy and I couldn't have been happier.

 

Sometimes these moves are bittersweet but necessary.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I remember being very sad as a kid when Knoblauch was traded. Then I realized what a jerk he was and how much that deal propelled us back to relevancy and I couldn't have been happier.

 

Sometimes these moves are bittersweet but necessary.

 

I had quite the collection of Knoblauch baseball cards before that trade... He was my favorite player at that time... That one hurt.

[Monkeypaws]

Do intangibles enter the conversation with baseball fans?

 

As a hockey fan, we often talk about what else a player brings to the table besides what appears on the scoresheet.

 

Morneau ain't what he was if you look purely at numbers, but might there be other things he brings to the team that don't translate into numerical analysis?

[ThePuck]

I think the thing that will hurt about seeing Morneau go more than anything else is the return they will get for him.

 

That and whomever replaces him there.

[Halsey Hall]

I think the thing that will hurt about seeing Morneau go more than anything else is the return they will get for him. Trading Justin is the right decision, as is trading Perk if the right package comes along.

 

No, trading Morneau isn't the right decision. You have to add the if..........part like you did for Perkins. Even then, I'm not for trading Justin.

[beckmt]

Yes, Trading Morneau will hurt a lot of his and Twins fans. He will just take up salary space this offseason and the Twins with a payroll of about $50 million starting the offseason, will need to spend close to $30 million extra a year on starting pitching.

[cmb0252]

No, trading Morneau isn't the right decision. You have to add the if..........part like you did for Perkins. Even then, I'm not for trading Justin.

 

People are so sentimental around here. Make the team better.

[twinsnorth49]

I'm as big a Morneau fan as there is but the present state of the team demands he be traded, it's just unfortunate he likely won't return much at this point.

 

What's even sadder is that I have strong doubts that his salary coming off the books will go to any meaningful pitching contracts next year. Would love to be wrong.

 

I don't think it's sentimental to be disappointed he'll be gone, everyone has favourite players they enjoy watching. There is also nothing that guarantees this team gets better by trading him at this point I might add.

[JB_Iowa]

Do intangibles enter the conversation with baseball fans?

 

As a hockey fan, we often talk about what else a player brings to the table besides what appears on the scoresheet.

 

Morneau ain't what he was if you look purely at numbers, but might there be other things he brings to the team that don't translate into numerical analysis?

 

To me, it doesn't look like he is where he once was on some of the intangibles either.

 

He is obviously a good citizen, loves the state of Minnesota and the Twins and is involved in a number of charitable endeavors.

 

But all of his struggles over the past years (plus aging, marriage and children) seem to have changed him. He just doesn't seem to be the smiling, intense leader that he was (despite the recent helmet incident).

 

It just all seems to have worn on him and I have to think that a change of scenery might be beneficial to him so that he is also not living in the shadow of himself in the minds of the fans.

 

And if I'm Terry Ryan, I'm doing a little shopping for a veteran who is light-hearted and a bit of a prankster. Someone in the mold of the irrepressible (and irreplaceable) Mike Redmond.

 

Someone who can keep them from getting too bogged down in all this losing.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

What's up with the Morneau love fest? I think a trade would be great for both the Twins and Morneau. The Twins are then able to play some young guys and Morneau gets a chance to play for a WS contender. Plus, whatever we can get for him is another incentive. Justin is in the midst of his 3rd straight below average season and he isn't getting any better. He's going to leave at some point anyway too.

[Rosterman]

The problem is "how much." The second problem is "why is money so important." The third problem is "do fans know how badly a player really wants to play here...or is it just a job."

 

Why did Hunter and Johan want to leave. Money? Big markets? That elusive ring? If Santana had stayed here (for $30 million less) he would be a star. He slipped a bit by going to New York. Too bad the Twins got reamed on his haul. Torii went with the money, and did it again to the Tigers (and hopes for a ring). Joe Nathan went with the money...the offer that overwhelmed him that he didn't need to come back to Minnesota and say "will you match." Too often, the Twins seem to lowball players on initial offers.

 

I have yet to understand why Colorado paid Cuddyer $30 million. But goes to show that sometimes overpaying a player might pay off, instead of underpaying a player (Willingham at $21 million).

 

You have to judge your free agent possibilities carefully. Nowadays, you might as well trade them away so you can better negotiate for them in the off-season if you really want them. The Twins had a chance to bring back Liriano but undervalued him. They could send Morneau to a contender and bring him back. The system seems better set up for that rather than make a qualifying offer and do it all over again next season. Get something, anything. I would rather have Hernandez and Escobar than nothing, really.

 

It is also forcing you to look at players long-term and trading them amidst contracts, i.e. Span. The Twins, if Willingham was healthy, should do the same. Maybe Doumit. Definitely Correia.

 

But then you get stuff like Willingham (again). And Pavano and Capps last year, who could've brought some system depth but ended up costing you millions in unplayed time.

 

It is not an easy job dealing with management or players.

 

We all remember Harmon Killebrew being rebuffed by the Twins and ending his career in Kansas City (Kansas City -- why?) You have players demanding a trade and thus lessening their value.

 

Do we keep Morneau? (Like we should've kept Koskie). I say yes because who else can you spend (and will) $30 million on over, say, three seasons. You can still always trade him. He can play 1st. He can DH eventually. He may find his power. You can afford to keep him.

 

But the Twins won't because they want to lowball him. Because they want to rebuild (with whom). Because theya re...the Twins.

 

I have not figured out the new (old) regime. They hold players down on the farm, yet trot out Hicks everyday. They sign an abundance of minor league free agents nd do get a gem or two, but if we are building for the future we don't do it with an aging journeyman first baseman out of the indy leagues and a 30-year-old pitcher that has spotty control at times.

 

You don't fill a roster with the likes of Mastro, Thomas and Ramirez as well as a trio of infielders who are clones.

 

If you have starting pitching that you have homegrown and like, you find a way to keep them (Santana, Baker, Liriano)...yet those that you do keep (Blackburn, Mays, Silva) well, that is a crapshoot, isn't it.

 

It's all about putting butts in the sets. Good attendance first game back on a cool summer night. But there is little reson for ME to go see the Twins live, and I'm a Twins fan for my entire life. I do it now if it is cheap...hey, I could work for the Twins!

[Alex]

If we're honest with ourselves, both holding onto Morneau for the rest of the season and/or extending him are bad baseball moves.

 

I love Morneau, but there are enough players in the organization that we have that can play first base and have at least comparable overall production.

[Drtwins]

I like Justin as much as anyone. However, he most likely will be gone at the end of the season, so why not trade him for an average prospect. If the twins can resign him to a 2 year extension for 7 million or less we could keep him. If Colabello and Parms could each play full time for the remainder of the year we could see where they are at, either long term replacements or bench players. If neither works out you could always try to resign Justin at the end of the year. IMO I don't think either will work out, but I still would let Justin go and consider moving Plouffe or Sano to first as they both can't play 3rd. Plouffe has played every infield position and his biggest issue has seemed to be his wild throws, he would have plenty of range as a 1B in addition to power. Thus giving us an infield next year or the following of 1B-Plouffe, 2B-Dozier/Rosario, SS-Florimon/Dozier, 3B-Sano. Bench would be Florimon or Dozier. Mauer could Catch,DH, and play 1B as he does now. Plouffe could move over to 3rd on days Sano needs off or the utility man could.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

You don't fill a roster with the likes of Mastro, Thomas and Ramirez as well as a trio of infielders who are clones.

 

It's all about putting butts in the sets. Good attendance first game back on a cool summer night. But there is little reson for ME to go see the Twins live, and I'm a Twins fan for my entire life. I do it now if it is cheap...hey, I could work for the Twins!

 

Mastroianni, Thomas, and Wilkin Ramirez are all serviceable coming off the bench. That's exactly how they've been used unless an injury forced them in. Mastroianni has been a great addition. He produced 1.0 WAR in under 200 ABs last season. He's a player we could really use right now because no one on the roster can steal bases since Revere and Span are gone.

 

You know what puts butts in the seats? Wins. Players like the new Morneau don't produce wins.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

I like Justin as much as anyone. However, he most likely will be gone at the end of the season, so why not trade him for an average prospect. If the twins can resign him to a 2 year extension for 7 million or less we could keep him. If Colabello and Parms could each play full time for the remainder of the year we could see where they are at, either long term replacements or bench players.

 

We could go with a Parmelee/Colabello platoon. Just a thought, but I'm sure someone else has also considered the idea. This would give Parmelee most of the ABs that people seem to think he needs because more starters are right-handed.

[stringer bell]

We could go with a Parmelee/Colabello platoon. Just a thought, but I'm sure someone else has also considered the idea. This would give Parmelee most of the ABs that people seem to think he needs because more starters are right-handed.

After a Doumit trade, four guys for three positions--Catcher, DH, 1B (actually RF could figure in as well) Pinto ©, Mauer (C-1B), Colabello (DH-1B) and Parm (1B-RF). Everybody but Mauer would play 75% of the time.

[Halsey Hall]

I like Justin as much as anyone. However, he most likely will be gone at the end of the season, so why not trade him for an average prospect. If the twins can resign him to a 2 year extension for 7 million or less we could keep him. If Colabello and Parms could each play full time for the remainder of the year we could see where they are at, either long term replacements or bench players. If neither works out you could always try to resign Justin at the end of the year. IMO I don't think either will work out, but I still would let Justin go and consider moving Plouffe or Sano to first as they both can't play 3rd. Plouffe has played every infield position and his biggest issue has seemed to be his wild throws, he would have plenty of range as a 1B in addition to power. Thus giving us an infield next year or the following of 1B-Plouffe, 2B-Dozier/Rosario, SS-Florimon/Dozier, 3B-Sano. Bench would be Florimon or Dozier. Mauer could Catch,DH, and play 1B as he does now. Plouffe could move over to 3rd on days Sano needs off or the utility man could.

 

Trade him for an average prospect? Very few if any average prospects will have 50 rbi's in their lifetime in the majors. Very few will even make the majors.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

After a Doumit trade, four guys for three positions--Catcher, DH, 1B (actually RF could figure in as well) Pinto ©, Mauer (C-1B), Colabello (DH-1B) and Parm (1B-RF). Everybody but Mauer would play 75% of the time.

 

That would be great because of bringing Pinto up. It saves Mauer's legs for important seasons and we get to see what Josmil can do. Win-win. Personally, I really like Pinto and I think he's a top 10 prospect (right at 10) for us with a crowded system.