Derek Shelton's Hiring Shows That Rocco Baldelli Was Falvey's Fall Guy

[LastOnePicked]

Still waiting for the "Rocco as fall guy" narrative to finally get buried. If ever a managerial firing was called for, it was his. Terrible ownership decisions after 2023 don't excuse abject collapses on the field in 2021, 2022, 2024 and 2025.

[Western SD Fan]

Quote

"The first clue that both were fall guys: Shelton got another manager position almost immediately. If he were the problem in Pittsburgh, surely the Twins would have sussed that out in the interview process." - from the article

I'm not so sure about this statement.  Not that Shelton wasn't a fall guy in Pittsburgh, he likely was, but that Falvey would have actually vetted out his time in Pittsburgh.  I would guess that Falvey helped vet Shelton when he was hired as Rocco's bench coach, so his opinion of Shelton likely hadn't changed since then.  I also believe that Shelton is essentially Baldelli 2.0 and Falvey may have blinders on to whatever warts Shelton may have developed during his time in Pittsburgh.

[JADBP]

6 hours ago, old nurse said:

...... There always will be fall guys. The club under Bill Smith is an example of when it was right. 

Are you outta your mind?  Lets look at Smith's trades...Santana for Gomez + junk, the Delmon Young trade (that helped Tampa Bay win the WS), the Capps for Ramos trade, the Nishioka signing, trading Hardy)?  Smith had three winning seasons (mostly with the team that Ryan had previously built),  Then, after all his trading nonsense was fully baked into the team, Smith's Twins went 63/99.  His damage to the team was lasting, without another winning season for the next three years after he was fired.  Just what went right under Bill Smith?  He can take credit for 3 winning seasons with largely the team that his predecessor had built, while he broke it all down.  Trading Santana, when he begged to sign a long term deal, was horrible!  

[Rufus]

7 hours ago, old nurse said:

Cleveland did as they have always done. Now if they had won a WS, you would have a point 

After Francona left following the 23 season Cleveland went from a team that was founding in the Central division to one that won it in 24 and staged a historic comeback to overpack the Tigers last season.  No they didn't win a World Series.  they don't have good enough players to do that,  but the improvement after the managerial change is undeniable.  Is Vote a better manger than Francona? I doubt it...But sometimes a change at the top and a way at looking at things helps.  People do get stagnant in their jobs.

[Greglw3]

7 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Fans & players have heard for years, don't look at the results, trust the process. Falvey absolutely didn't want to fire Baldelli because he was the face of that process. After years of no results, we have to look at the analytical process (of hitting a ton of HRs when they don't count, SOs offensively when it matters, defense, fundamentals, clutch hitting don't matter) & come to the conclusion that the process is faulty. But Falvey has resisted with all his might.

The reason that Baldelli was fired was none of that. He was fired because the Pohlads weren't selling tickets & Falvey was told to solve the problem. Through the years, Falvey has used all the excuses in the book & bloodied the field with sacrificial lambs. Instead of solving the problem by taking full responsibility & removing himself, He decided to sacrifice his most prized lamb, Baldelli. It was obvious to many that this was most likely going to happen. Again, this weak show of action will do nothing to change the sale of tickets, because, unlike the Pohlads, the fans aren't fooled. When ticket sales reach new all-time lows, will the Pohlads finally wake up? How deep will that hole get before they wake up & seek a better source of their information rather than Falvey?

"Fans & players have heard for years, don't look at the results, trust the process. Falvey absolutely didn't want to fire Baldelli because he was the face of that process. After years of no results, we have to look at the analytical process (of hitting a ton of HRs when they don't count, SOs offensively when it matters, defense, fundamentals, clutch hitting don't matter) & come to the conclusion that the process is faulty. But Falvey has resisted with all his might."

This says it all, cuts totally to the heart of the problem. Best analysis I’ve seen.

They’d best go out and find a few higher average contact guys as the offense will never gel with a hitter with as gigantic a hole in his swing as Wallner (and who nobody could reach to say quit swinging from the heels ever pitch!). There are so many ways to score in baseball and the Twins way (the new way, not the 1970s way or the late 80s to early 90s way) eschewed way too much of the toolkit.

I’m actuallyy guardedly optimistic that Falvey will go out and get at least 2 hitters and/or employ Gabriel Gonzalez, Walker Jenkins, Emmanuel Rodriguez, Kaelen Culpepper. Best both approaches. He owes it to the fans, the organization and most compellingly, to Derek Shelton. It’s come to a head and I prefer to think Falvey feels this is his last chance.

 

[LewFordLives]

2 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Still waiting for the "Rocco as fall guy" narrative to finally get buried. If ever a managerial firing was called for, it was his. Terrible ownership decisions after 2023 don't excuse abject collapses on the field in 2021, 2022, 2024 and 2025.

It can be both ways. Everyone from the front office down through the coaches should have been sent packing. I felt Baldelli absolutely should have been fired. I'm still not clear why his option was picked up after the epic collapse in 2024. But let's not pretend he was the only problem. Falvey built this team and hired the coaching staff. These were all his guys.

[old nurse]

1 hour ago, JADBP said:

Are you outta your mind?  Lets look at Smith's trades...Santana for Gomez + junk, the Delmon Young trade (that helped Tampa Bay win the WS), the Capps for Ramos trade, the Nishioka signing, trading Hardy)?  Smith had three winning seasons (mostly with the team that Ryan had previously built),  Then, after all his trading nonsense was fully baked into the team, Smith's Twins went 63/99.  His damage to the team was lasting, without another winning season for the next three years after he was fired.  Just what went right under Bill Smith?  He can take credit for 3 winning seasons with largely the team that his predecessor had built, while he broke it all down.  Trading Santana, when he begged to sign a long term deal, was horrible!  

So you say i am out of my mind when i say they got it right for him to be the fall guy. Then you proceeded to show my statement to be correct

Santana requested a trade after they traded Luis Castillo. 

[TheLeviathan]

7 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

People are free to not like Derek Shelton and everyone can (should?) ALSO want to see Falvey replaced, but this team stunk; there is absolutely zero reason anyone needs to be scolded for firing Rocco Baldelli.

Also, if Baldelli was a 'scapegoat' he wasn't Falvey's scapegoat. From the press conference:

Darren Wolfson: "Ok then so why fire him?"

Falvey: "Yeah, that's a fair question Doogie. That's a conversation that works directly with ownership, and uhh ultimately a collaborative conversation about what were the right reasons to make the change." 

Babble, babble, babble. Then: "I worked closely with ownership, to spend some time together [sounds romantic], they discussed their perspectives on this and it ultimately lead to an organizational decision to make that change."

This was almost certainly a Pohlad decision. Woflson's question was surprisingly aggressive and Falvey immediately threw ownership out there, then after rambling a bit, doubled down that it was ownership perspective.

And everyone should be happy about this. If the Pohlad's are telling Falvey to fire his manager, Falvey's grip on his job probably isn't terribly strong.

1:10 into the video.

 

What blackmail on the Pohlads does Falvey have to keep getting promotions AND throwing the owners under the bus at the same time?

At this point I expect Falvey to announce at his next press conference that he collaborated with the Pohlads to be their sole beneficiary of their wealth the next time one of them dies.

[TheLeviathan]

Also...that Falvey video only confirms that he hired Baldelli 2.0.

Don't expect much to change.

[nicksaviking]

1 minute ago, TheLeviathan said:

What blackmail on the Pohlads does Falvey have to keep getting promotions AND throwing the owners under the bus at the same time?

At this point I expect Falvey to announce at his next press conference that he collaborated with the Pohlads to be their sole beneficiary of their wealth the next time one of them dies.

It's possible Falvey is already walking the plank but the timing isn't right for the final kick. The Pohlad's can tell him to fire the manager and hire a new one, and then the Pohlad's can largely wash their hands of the matter. 

With the Pohlad's trying to get MLB approval for their new investors, going year to year with their TV rights, and the CBA expiring after this year, there's probably too much going on for them to spend the time looking for a new POBO. And screw them for not prioritizing the on field product.

However, unless this team makes the playoffs in 2026, I bet Falvey is gone. I mean after the strike and/or lock outs are over. 

[Danchat]

2 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Still waiting for the "Rocco as fall guy" narrative to finally get buried. If ever a managerial firing was called for, it was his. Terrible ownership decisions after 2023 don't excuse abject collapses on the field in 2021, 2022, 2024 and 2025.

From the perspective of Falvey it is, even if in our opinion it was completely justified.

[old nurse]

51 minutes ago, Rufus said:

After Francona left following the 23 season Cleveland went from a team that was founding in the Central division to one that won it in 24 and staged a historic comeback to overpack the Tigers last season.  No they didn't win a World Series.  they don't have good enough players to do that,  but the improvement after the managerial change is undeniable.  Is Vote a better manger than Francona? I doubt it...But sometimes a change at the top and a way at looking at things helps.  People do get stagnant in their jobs.

Franconia averaged 89 wins a year, Voght 90. No difference. Francona was having health problems so he resigned.  They did not catch the Tigers, it was more like the Tigers fell apart down the stretch.  Without needing the crummy 4/5 starters Detroit was the better team 

[Rufus]

25 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Franconia averaged 89 wins a year, Voght 90. No difference. Francona was having health problems so he resigned.  They did not catch the Tigers, it was more like the Tigers fell apart down the stretch.  Without needing the crummy 4/5 starters Detroit was the better team 

 

25 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Franconia averaged 89 wins a year, Voght 90. No difference. Francona was having health problems so he resigned.  They did not catch the Tigers, it was more like the Tigers fell apart down the stretch.  Without needing the crummy 4/5 starters Detroit was the better team 

 

25 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Franconia averaged 89 wins a year, Voght 90. No difference. Francona was having health problems so he resigned.  They did not catch the Tigers, it was more like the Tigers fell apart down the stretch.  Without needing the crummy 4/5 starters Detroit was the better team 

Cleveland wan 78 games in 23, and 92 in 24.  That is quite an improvement

 

[old nurse]

8 hours ago, karcherd said:

This is absolutely an organizational direction and has nothing to do with pitch counts.  Go back and look at the box scores of the minor league games.  Pitchers were routinely pulled after 3 to 5 innings with 60 or 70 pitches.  And most times it was because they had faced the lineup twice.  So if they don't go more than five innings or face the lineup a third time, they can keep their mantra of he has no track record of facing a lineup a third time and doesn't have the stamina to go longer than 5 innings so we must pull him.

SWR, Festa and Mathew’s appear to have been limited to 80 pitches or so,, so 60-70 would be about right for the lower minors. They are working on increased velocities so they need to first increase the strength., hence there are a number of pitchers on the 4 innings every fourth day.  Maybe some writer here will write about it, but there are reasons i wouldn’t expect them to do so. 

[old nurse]

3 hours ago, Rufus said:

 

 

Cleveland wan 78 games in 23, and 92 in 24.  That is quite an improvement

 

Did you bother to look up what happened that year or do you just scout the final standings and ignore the rest.  

[old nurse]

16 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Winston Churchill?

 

Talk about ironic.

I should do more like you do and snip w/o backing up with fact?

[Squirrel]

17 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Still waiting for the "Rocco as fall guy" narrative to finally get buried. If ever a managerial firing was called for, it was his. Terrible ownership decisions after 2023 don't excuse abject collapses on the field in 2021, 2022, 2024 and 2025.

I think he was a fall guy but that doesn’t mean firing him was wrong. There is a lot wrong with this organization and firing Baldelli doesn’t solve a them. But his firing was still the right thing to do, imo

[Sjoski]

On 11/3/2025 at 7:30 AM, LewFordLives said:

Falvey has dispatched with the GM, manager, and numerous coaches. He has no one left to blame. 

Now he can blame Derek!!!! Without firing himself. 

The Twins went from Derek and Rocco to Derek and Derek. Guess Falvey figured it’s easier to stay in sync if you just hire yourself.

( the string of fires is comical, began with firing the trainer in 2022).

[JADBP]

On 11/3/2025 at 3:39 PM, old nurse said:

So you say i am out of my mind when i say they got it right for him to be the fall guy. Then you proceeded to show my statement to be correct

Santana requested a trade after they traded Luis Castillo. 

No sorry I should have been far less unkind.
 

We agree fully on both Falvey  and Baldelli.

 

What I disagree with is that Smith “got it right” as Twins GM. He did not. As I pointed out, he made far more bad trades than good ones and the damage he did as GM hurt the org for 2-3 years after he left.  He never got close to the GM chair again. He was a pure admin guy with little to no baseball skill. I am sure he is a fine administrator.  But, as Falvey shows, GMs today have far more responsibility/control/power over how the on-field team is run. I’m not saying Falvey is good at it, but I am saying that Smith had little understanding of baseball-related decisions (strategy, training, team formation, trade asset values, etc).  He went on to finish his career in ADMIN. 
 

I apologize, I didn’t mean to offend you.  I just jumped on Smith.  

[old nurse]

1 hour ago, JADBP said:

No sorry I should have been far less unkind.
 

We agree fully on both Falvey  and Baldelli.

 

What I disagree with is that Smith “got it right” as Twins GM. He did not. As I pointed out, he made far more bad trades than good ones and the damage he did as GM hurt the org for 2-3 years after he left.  He never got close to the GM chair again. He was a pure admin guy with little to no baseball skill. I am sure he is a fine administrator.  But, as Falvey shows, GMs today have far more responsibility/control/power over how the on-field team is run. I’m not saying Falvey is good at it, but I am saying that Smith had little understanding of baseball-related decisions (strategy, training, team formation, trade asset values, etc).  He went on to finish his career in ADMIN. 
 

I apologize, I didn’t mean to offend you.  I just jumped on Smith.  

Do you not understand when talking about fall guys when I say they got it right with Smith, that I am saying yes he should have been fired?

[JADBP]

I agree 100% on Rocco as I’ve said before.  Sorry the wording was confusing.  Got it now.  Again, sorry!