Twins 6, Blue Jays 3: Patient Lineup, Stingy Bullpen Salvage Series

[Patzky]

10 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Vazquez - if he hits .225 or better he’s a positive contributor  - $6-7M for continuity in ‘26 and his defense and great bench presence/attitude……worth serious consideration!

He needs to find a better HR mascot.

[Doctor Wu]

12 hours ago, chinmusic said:

Buxton with 3 walks!  Who would have thunk it.

Must be a career first....

Apparently it is...according to Gleeman

 

Speaking of walks, according to what I read on ESPN today, this is what our pitchers have done:

The Twins have walked 164 batters — fewest in the majors

[Doctor Wu]

11 hours ago, Aerodeliria said:

I'm never very worried when Ryan is on the hill. He had an off day but still perservered. 

Yes, it seems like Ryan struggled more than usual and threw a lot of pitches, but as you suggested, he finds a way to keep the Twins in the game.

[TwinsDr2021]

12 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

, I wouldn't mind resigning him again for 8 to 10 million depending on his season with the bat , but for his defense alone , sign him for 6 million or what ever Houston was paying that defensive catcher who I think is catching with white Sox  ( just cant think of his name right now ) ...

What are we the Yanks or Dodgers? signing a back up catcher to that kind of contract. Signing him turned out to be a bad signing, don't make it worse by doubling down.

[Patzky]

35 minutes ago, Doctor Wu said:

Yes, it seems like Ryan struggled more than usual and threw a lot of pitches, but as you suggested, he finds a way to keep the Twins in the game.

Curious to see the Umpire scorecards for those two games. Might be a reason

 

[Patzky]

4 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

What are we the Yanks or Dodgers? signing a back up catcher to that kind of contract. Signing him turned out to be a bad signing, don't make it worse by doubling down.

May not be a backup if you aren't buying into Jeffers.. who ain't signed forever either.

[jmlease1]

A good win, stopped the bleeding nicely. Got worried when France got picked off like that; felt like one of those moments where the momentum could shift and a wobbling pitcher got bailed out. Glad to see it didn't matter, but whoof, that was poor awareness by France.

Great production from the bottom half of the lineup. Nice to see so many guys collecting hits and walks from the 6-9 slots. 

Royce is starting to look like he's finally coming around. It's only been a week...but it's been a very good week. He'll need to show this isn't a fluke and not fall back into the hole, but he has looked good at the plate again, grinding out some ABs and getting some hits. 

Nice to see Ryan grind one out when he was just a bit off. He's becoming one of those guys that you just feel like he's going to figure things out and get it done. Much like Pablo, his floor is pretty high these days, and the ceiling is awfully high as well. We'll need him to keep doing this with Zebby going down too,

[chinmusic]

1 hour ago, Doctor Wu said:

The Twins have walked 164 batters — fewest in the majors

Impressive! I didn't know that.

I maintain that the Twins have a great deal of potential. The pitching in particular could take them a long way.

The winning streak gave them relevance. Let's hope they can weather this latest round of setbacks.

 

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Patzky said:

May not be a backup if you aren't buying into Jeffers.. who ain't signed forever either.

My comment had nothing to do with Jeffers, but you are saying that he is good enough to be a starter at the age of 35 after being below replacement the last two years?

remember the original comment was "8 to 10 million depending on his season with the bat , but for his defense alone , sign him for 6 million"

That is a whole lot different than signing him to a minimal contract to a be a leader and a back up catcher, that I might be able to along with. The guy has two good seasons and a couple decent seasons and will be 35 in August. His career WAR is 6.5, Jeffers has basically put that since Vazquez got here.

[Linus]

Kind of a sloppy game so to get the win is great. France getting picked off there is inexcusable. He’s going nowhere and he ends the inning with runners in scoring position. It makes you wonder if certain players even get the concept of risk / reward. 

[Patzky]

11 minutes ago, Linus said:

Kind of a sloppy game so to get the win is great. France getting picked off there is inexcusable. He’s going nowhere and he ends the inning with runners in scoring position. It makes you wonder if certain players even get the concept of risk / reward. 

For such important people to our success, France Willi and Correa suffer occasional brain farts. Hey beer man!

[mnfireman]

After re-watching the video, I think it was a designed play. There were 2 outs. Lee, a LH batter with some pop was batting, France was the trailing runner, getting his secondary lead. Guerrero broke for the base as the P delivered home. Somebody on Toronto's bench saw something on one or both pitches of the PA to that point. Not to deflect blame off of France, he needs to be situationally alert, but Borrego, the first base coach, needs to be helping him when he see's Guerrero break to the base with the pitch.

https://www.mlb.com/video/bowden-francis-ball-to-brooks-lee-jogbdn

[Linus]

2 hours ago, mnfireman said:

After re-watching the video, I think it was a designed play. There were 2 outs. Lee, a LH batter with some pop was batting, France was the trailing runner, getting his secondary lead. Guerrero broke for the base as the P delivered home. Somebody on Toronto's bench saw something on one or both pitches of the PA to that point. Not to deflect blame off of France, he needs to be situationally alert, but Borrego, the first base coach, needs to be helping him when he see's Guerrero break to the base with the pitch.

https://www.mlb.com/video/bowden-francis-ball-to-brooks-lee-jogbdn

For sure it was a called play but only because France was hanging out there. He got so far off my first thought was he misread the sign and thought there was a double steal called. 

[stringer bell]

5 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

My comment had nothing to do with Jeffers, but you are saying that he is good enough to be a starter at the age of 35 after being below replacement the last two years?

remember the original comment was "8 to 10 million depending on his season with the bat , but for his defense alone , sign him for 6 million"

That is a whole lot different than signing him to a minimal contract to a be a leader and a back up catcher, that I might be able to along with. The guy has two good seasons and a couple decent seasons and will be 35 in August. His career WAR is 6.5, Jeffers has basically put that since Vazquez got here.

Some are presenting Vázquez as some kind of defensive superstar and pitcher whisperer. I see a good defender with a weak bat and think that the club would be better if he played less. Yes, he homered yesterday and drove in another run with a grounder, but he did strike out another time with the bases loaded. If his grounder would have been a couple more steps toward second base it would have been a double play instead of an RBI groundout.

As long as Baldelli is the mana.ger, the Twins will have a tandem at catcher (IMHO) and I would like to see Jeffers paired with a younger catcher next year, preferably a LH hitter. Investing serious money in guys over 35 seldom works especially when their career has been in decline for multiple years.

[jorgenswest]

I agree with the sentiment that it is time to get past the Vazquez contract. He slots between Mitch Garver and Gary Sanchez and I would take Vazquez over either. Garver spends more time at DH than catcher. Sanchez has been no help this year. Danny Jansen is in there also with the same AAV though he can opt out and may do so thinking he can get better than 12 million.

It is deceptive to rank any veteran at a position by salary. I shouldn’t be comparing him to a pool of all catchers. Most catchers have not hit free agency and are getting a salary below the market they would get as a free agent. As for Vazquez I would prefer Jansen among his peers but glad to have him over Sanchez and Garver. I don’t know how to measure his value to the pitcher/catcher room but I believe it to be among the best in the game.

Glad to have Vazquez. Nice game yesterday but nailing that runner at third earlier this year was even better. The Twins bought themselves three years to develop a cost controlled young catcher with his contract. The Twins have not made any progress developing that catcher. That is the real failure.