Spring Training Games, Week of 3/9 - 3/15

[Linus]

Omg - Gonzalez is lost out there.  No jump or instincts but at least he is slow.

[tony&rodney]

36 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Was just going to say the kids aren't too comfortable on defense today.

That double needs to be caught.

Gabriel Gonzalez has a big arm and the Twins hope he hits, but he might be the worst outfielder in pro ball. He makes Delmon Young look like Andruw Young.

I was shocked watching him last year.

[tony&rodney]

Winokur shows his glove and arm on a ball deep in the hole. The tools are there. He has plenty to learn, but the athleticism is really exciting.

[ashbury]

8 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Gabriel Gonzalez has a big arm and the Twins hope he hits, but he might be the worst outfielder in pro ball. He makes Delmon Young look like Andruw Young.

I assume he makes Andruw Young look like Andruw Jones, as well?

[tony&rodney]

4 minutes ago, ashbury said:

I assume he makes Andruw Young look like Andruw Jones, as well?

Yes, of course. I was laughing thinking about Delmon in left field in a game in Milwaukee.

[Schmoeman5]

Twins defense in spring breakout game is atrocious. All around. It's like 7 year old t-ball. Winokur made a nice play. He also threw one into right field on a play. 

[ashbury]

Game announcers making excuses for the Twins being a lot younger than the Jays breakout players.  I'm not going to invest the effort to check their statement, but it's hard to dig up enough excuses to explain away today's clown show.

[LewFordLives]

4 minutes ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Twins defense in spring breakout game is atrocious. All around. It's like 7 year old t-ball. Winokur made a nice play. He also threw one into right field on a play. 

Yeah, this has been ugly.

[Schmoeman5]

Pop-up on the infield. Haha. Twins future looks solid. 

[ashbury]

5 minutes ago, LewFordLives said:

Yeah, this has been ugly.

Management is a delicate task, but IMO Falvey would be justified in asking some very pointed questions down his chain of command as to the seeming lack of preparation, particularly of some players with multiple seasons in the Twins system by now.  Any individual player could be just an aberration, but this display today of some touted players has a feel of Total System Failure.

[Schmoeman5]

2 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Management is a delicate task, but IMO Falvey would be justified to be asking some very pointed questions down his chain of command as to the seeming lack of preparation, particularly of some players with multiple seasons in the Twins system by now.  Any individual player could be just an aberration, but this display today  of some touted players has a feel of Total System Failure.

Falvey may ask some pointed questions, but he also would have to answer some. He's the guy who drafts or trades for these players.

[tony&rodney]

If you watch enough minor league or amateur baseball, it isn't unusual to see a pile of missed plays from time to time. I'm pretty slow to condemn the efforts and skills of younger and inexperienced players. One has to look at the potential much more.

Whether the Twins care about defense is something well beyond my knowledge.

[Linus]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

Management is a delicate task, but IMO Falvey would be justified to be asking some very pointed questions down his chain of command as to the seeming lack of preparation, particularly of some players with multiple seasons in the Twins system by now.  Any individual player could be just an aberration, but this display today  of some touted players has a feel of Total System Failure.

A thousand times this.  Part of it is the player type they pursue - Gonzalez is a perfect example.  Definitely part of it is player development and it’s not a new thing.  It’s been one of the strongest characteristics of the Falvey era - it has to be noticed doesn’t it?

[tony&rodney]

5 minutes ago, Linus said:

A thousand times this.  Part of it is the player type they pursue - Gonzalez is a perfect example.  Definitely part of it is player development and it’s not a new thing.  It’s been one of the strongest characteristics of the Falvey era - it has to be noticed doesn’t it?

Remember that Gonzalez was the key to the Polanco trade. Someone put him in a top 100 list too. So I wondered quite a bit about him. It didn't take me one game watching to question the decision, but I did decide to watch him a dozen times. Who knows how Gonzalez was targeted? Maybe he becomes a Nelson Cruz DH. I can't see it. 

[Linus]

1 minute ago, tony&rodney said:

Remember that Gonzalez was the key to the Polanco trade. Someone put him in a top 100 list too. So I wondered quite a bit about him. It didn't take me one game watching to question the decision, but I did decide to watch him a dozen times. Who knows how Gonzalez was targeted? Maybe he becomes a Nelson Cruz DH. I can't see it. 

Oh I remember.

[ashbury]

21 minutes ago, Linus said:

A thousand times this.  Part of it is the player type they pursue - Gonzalez is a perfect example.  Definitely part of it is player development and it’s not a new thing.  It’s been one of the strongest characteristics of the Falvey era - it has to be noticed doesn’t it?

One of my nagging concerns is that essentially none of the "sweeteners" that are obtained as part of bigger trades seem ever to work out.  I keep meaning to do a thorough bit of research on Twins trades during the FalVine era, to document (or disprove) this.  When they specifically target a prospect, such as Joe Ryan, it's worked out, but I'm talking about different guys than that.  We didn't just get Pablo Lopez for Luis Arraez, we also got Jose Salas who was a well-regarded infield prospect, and Pfffft, he has fizzled.  Gabriel Gonzales came along in the Jorge Polanco trade, and some touted him as the real reason for the trade, and now we are seeing some major red flags in his skill set, apparently on display in this game (I tuned in late).  There are some others (not in today's game) who aren't coming to mind at the moment so, like I said, I need to be systematic and write it up.  Some of the guys are still young and their final page hasn't been written yet - but instead of shoring up the farm system with gems from other organizations, the trend has seemed like accepting trade capital that other teams didn't have use for.  I would love it if they could package up this assortment of prospect capital into a massive trade for someone's major league player, but it seems to me that these prospects have lost what trade value they may once have had, and the only chance to salvage their value is if they somehow do develop into something the Twins can put to use themselves.

[Linus]

5 minutes ago, ashbury said:

I keep meaning to do a thorough bit of research on Twins trades during the FalVine era, but one of my nagging concerns is that essentially none of the "sweeteners" that are obtained as part of bigger trades seem ever to work out.  When they specifically target a prospect, such as Joe Ryan, it's worked out, but I'm talking about different guys than that.  We didn't just get Pablo Lopez for Luis Arraez, we also got Jose Salas who was a well-regarded infield prospect, and Pfffft, he has fizzled.  Gabriel Gonzales came along in the Jorge Polanco trade, and some touted him as the real reason for the trade, and now we are seeing some major red flags in his skill set, apparently on display in this game (I tuned in late).  There are some others (not in today's game) who aren't coming to mind at the moment so, like I said, I need to be systematic and write it up.  Instead of shoring up the farm system with gems from other organizations, the trend has seemed like accepting trade capital that other teams didn't have use for.

That would be interesting.  I’m always appreciative when posters do research like that because it’s enlightening and I’m too lazy to do it myself. 😀

[tony&rodney]

One has to watch these "prospect" games with quite a bit of lattitude. The Blue Jays were at their home park in Dunedin showing fans the top pitching prospects and all of their top position players. 

Maybe things are different if Matthews, Morris, Soto, Prielipp, Raya, or even one of the top 30 Twins pitching prospects are in the game along with all of their top position players. The game was typical minor league style, some good and some "oh no". The idea is good.

[ashbury]

5 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

One has to watch these "prospect" games with quite a bit of lattitude. The Blue Jays were at their home park in Dunedin showing fans the top pitching prospects and all of their top position players. 

Maybe things are different if Matthews, Morris, Soto, Prielipp, Raya, or even one of the top 30 Twins pitching prospects are in the game along with all of their top position players. The game was typical minor league style, some good and some "oh no". The idea is good.

If the idea is good then the Twins need to play along.  These are not long bus rides, and freeway miles are part of a minor leaguer's lot anyway.  I'll give slack if the Twins say someone was held back due to a nagging injury, but not every single good prospect.

Besides that, I wouldn't be confident that Raya for example would have shown any better command than Nowlin did today.  I'm really bothered by the guys they've invested time in, where it's highly unclear it's going to pay off.

[thelanges5]

 

[Doctor Gast]

Lee made a nice play at SS

[sampleSizeOfOne]

We score!

[Doctor Gast]

twice & threatening

 

[SteveLV]

Julien looks so frickin' uncomfortable as a 2nd baseman.  Another boot on a routine play.

He either needs to go to AAA and learn how to field competently, or else he is a DH.  No team wants him at 2nd base regularly.

[Schmoeman5]

Julien is much improved at 2nd. He should wear a boot. 

[Doctor Gast]

Nice play by Miranda

[thelanges5]

 

[Doctor Gast]

I have no idea why Baldelli doesn't like Miranda/

[Linus]

Buck puts that in his hip pocket.  Bad read and route by Bader

[Doctor Gast]

Sims is pitching well. Stranded a lead off 2 bagger