BREAKING: Twins Agree to One-Year Deal With Outfielder Harrison Bader

[Jocko87]

In a feeble and probably futile effort to return to the topic the Pirates have signed Tommy Pham for 4m.  Compare, contrast.  Discuss minor leaguers in the minor league forum.

Also, Dan Hayes has just reported that they are OK on money and shopping for a backup shortstop.  So they don’t need to move any money for Bader.

Discuss.

I like it a lot now.

[chpettit19]

Just now, Jocko87 said:

In a feeble and probably futile effort to return to the topic the Pirates have signed Tommy Pham for 4m.  Compare, contrast.  Discuss minor leaguers in the minor league forum.

Also, Dan Hayes has just reported that they are OK on money and shopping for a backup shortstop.  So they don’t need to move any money for Bader.

Discuss.

I like it a lot now.

The minor leaguers are tied to Bader. It's an appropriate conversation for this thread. Every signing has ripple effects and we're discussing the direct ripple effects of this signing. Just like the Hayes report is an extension of the Bader signing topic. All worthwhile discussions appropriate for this thread. Everyone can choose which of those extensions on the direct Bader topic they wish to be involved in.

The more money they have available to spend the more I want to know when they knew they had this money and what that means. Was it always a 145-150 budget? Are they feeling like they're closer to an ownership deal so that's changing things? The more money they have available the less I like these types of signings because it means they could have pretty easily cleared enough to sign Alonso to the type of deal he got or maybe get Bregman for similar. And I'd rather have one of them plus young guys than all these average at best guys who don't raise the ceiling of this team.

[NYCTK]

48 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Jackson Merrill is a close comp.

Not really. Last year Emmanuel Rodriguez was a consensus top 62 prospect and this year top 37. Merrill ranked no lower than 22nd and 17th in his two years before the show. 

Clearly an intriguing prospect, but a LOT of question marks about if his approach will play at the major league level. 

[tony&rodney]

1 minute ago, Jocko87 said:

In a feeble and probably futile effort to return to the topic the Pirates have signed Tommy Pham for 4m.  Compare, contrast.  Discuss minor leaguers in the minor league forum.

Also, Dan Hayes has just reported that they are OK on money and shopping for a backup shortstop.  So they don’t need to move any money for Bader.

Discuss.

I like it a lot now.

Tommy Pham is still a decent bat. The defense is Twins appropriate and he is a guy like Bader, Grichuk, etc. 

The money/payroll situation was only a thing for those who were influenced by the never-ending barrage of "owner/team imposed ..." b.s. pawned off on us by writers all offseason despite or maybe because of the Twins issuing a statement that payroll would not be cut but not answering any further money directed questions. Once the press release came out that the Twins were for sale we pretty much knew that payroll was the responsibility of the next owner. At that point it became a dead issue except for the writers constant mantra.

Falvey is a mystery to me. I have no idea what plan he has for the Twins. I can't see one, so I'm critical because I want him to do something but not critical because he may have an overall idea for the team. So, Falvey is a complete mystery to me.

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Not really. Last year Emmanuel Rodriguez was a consensus top 62 prospect and this year top 37. Merrill ranked no lower than 22nd and 17th in his two years before the show. 

Clearly an intriguing prospect, but a LOT of question marks about if his approach will play at the major league level. 

So, wouldn't the major league level be the place for him to be so you can get answers to the question marks about his approach playing at the major league level?

[DJL44]

12 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Considering their track record of "value free agent signings" that isn't that large of an endorsement. And he has been very useful compared to his cost. I don't deny that. But his cost has gone up. Castro is actually an example of what we're talking about. He wasn't viewed as a 2 WAR player when they picked him up on a non-40-man roster contract. He signed a minor league deal and wasn't expected to play for the Twins. The boards around here weren't impressed at all. Were you claiming then that he'd be a 2 WAR player so they should give him a shot or were you saying the same thing you're saying now and advocating for a Harrison Bader or Kyle Farmer or Manuel Margot or Joey Gallo to take his place because "the minors are not full of 2 WAR players?" He was one of the young players we're talking about giving a shot to because they may be at least as good as the bad to average vets they keep bringing in. He's literally the example for letting the young guys give it a go.

I'd trade Lee today. Would've traded him last year. I've long been one of the lower posters on Lee. And Larnach and Miranda have both put up OPS+ numbers over 110. Miranda on multiple occasions. Castro has gone 105 and 102. That's a bad comparison since those 2 literally fit what I said about Castro not hitting well enough.

I didn't know much about Castro when they acquired him, but he looked really good in the spring training game I watched. He earned his way onto the team by playing well. He's the counterexample to these assertions that the Twins never play the young guys and only play aging veterans. They don't play the young guys because most of them aren't very good and they haven't earned it. Miranda earned his way up, so did Larnach and Wallner. Brooks Lee is getting playing time despite not really earning it yet.

Harrison Bader is blocking NOBODY. Emmanuel Rodriguez has barely played at AAA and is first on the depth chart for a callup as soon as there is an injury. Keaschall has barely played at AA and his results were not great. The rest of the guys in the upper minors are non-prospects. Helman, Gasper and Keirsey aren't even young.

13 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

If you don't like those 2 comps, how about Michael Harris II who had an .878 OPS in 43 AA games before jumping straight to the majors? Slightly better than Keaschall, but nothing crazy. He'd played 197 total minor league games before debuting. Emma has played 230. Keaschall is at 133 already.

I don't have space to list all the counterexamples. There are hundreds, possibly thousands of players who had an OPS in the 800s in Double-A and weren't good enough for MLB.

[DJL44]

14 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

The more money they have available to spend the more I want to know when they knew they had this money and what that means. Was it always a 145-150 budget? Are they feeling like they're closer to an ownership deal so that's changing things? 

I am guessing that revenue sharing is up due to the rich teams spending more money above the luxury tax.

[NYCTK]

24 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

hit .280

You're demanding a high average from Bader while advocating the Twins play Rodriguez who would likely hit under 220. 

[DJL44]

10 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

So, wouldn't the major league level be the place for him to be so you can get answers to the question marks about his approach playing at the major league level?

If Rodriguez can avoid injury he'll get plenty of chances to play MLB games this summer.

[NYCTK]

17 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

The more money they have available to spend the more I want to know when they knew they had this money and what that means. Was it always a 145-150 budget? Are they feeling like they're closer to an ownership deal so that's changing things? The more money they have available the less I like these types of signings because it means they could have pretty easily cleared enough to sign Alonso to the type of deal he got or maybe get Bregman for similar. And I'd rather have one of them plus young guys than all these average at best guys who don't raise the ceiling of this team.

Alonso was NEVER signing with the Twins. And you're not going to get a hard payroll commitment during the offseason so you guys can play armchair GM more fittingly.

Y'all are demanding impossibilities. 

[tony&rodney]

23 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Not really. Last year Emmanuel Rodriguez was a consensus top 62 prospect and this year top 37. Merrill ranked no lower than 22nd and 17th in his two years before the show. 

Clearly an intriguing prospect, but a LOT of question marks about if his approach will play at the major league level. 

Good lord, both you and Brock fixated on Chourio. Apparently I should not have mentioned him or Mauer. Different people use different rankings which is fine. I used Keith Law. He sees most players in person, has been involved for a long time, and is somewhat respectable. Law has Emmanuel higher this year than he had Merrill last year. In any event, they are completely different types of players whose general rankings are similar.

Every rookie ever has questions and success is never guaranteed. Jackson Chourio was really struggling until mid June but was in the lineup every day. Jackson Merrill did just enough to keep himself in the lineup but the Padres were firm that the job was his no matter the performance. Jackson Holliday struggled for the Orioles and was eventually sent down. See what I did there? Kept it to the Jacksons. None of these guys are similar to Emmanuel Rodriguez except all were rookies. 

There are times when a team should put a rookie in the lineup and let them play through. If the only time a rookie gets an opportunity to play is when an injury occurs there is an underlying philosophical thought that the veterans are just better. Plenty of people on Twins Daily subscribe to that idea. We have a resident expert on this topic, RpR. No big deal, just a difference of opinion. 

[tony&rodney]

5 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

You're demanding a high average from Bader while advocating the Twins play Rodriguez who would likely hit under 220. 

No connection whatsoever. I was merely saying that Bader is now a Twin and hoping he has a good season. I have no expectations at all. The numbers were just to promote a positive view. I'm not sure how you managed the comparison but rest easy there was no such thing. We don't know what any player will do in the 2025 season.

Likely? Who was the most discussed and hyped player of this entire offseason? Roki Sasaki. He could be ROY or go down with TJ surgery. The future is unknown.

[Jocko87]

26 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

The minor leaguers are tied to Bader. It's an appropriate conversation for this thread. Every signing has ripple effects and we're discussing the direct ripple effects of this signing. Just like the Hayes report is an extension of the Bader signing topic. All worthwhile discussions appropriate for this thread. Everyone can choose which of those extensions on the direct Bader topic they wish to be involved in.

The more money they have available to spend the more I want to know when they knew they had this money and what that means. Was it always a 145-150 budget? Are they feeling like they're closer to an ownership deal so that's changing things? The more money they have available the less I like these types of signings because it means they could have pretty easily cleared enough to sign Alonso to the type of deal he got or maybe get Bregman for similar. And I'd rather have one of them plus young guys than all these average at best guys who don't raise the ceiling of this team.

Couple of guys who have been good at AA are not effected by the Bader signing.  Not remotely.

Everyone gets all focused on the vet in the way and ignore the kid not being very good. Yet.

Bader effects Martin. That's it. Especially now that they don't have to shed salary to make it work.

If you want a stars and kids roster, well, we already have that. The math isn't as simple as that guy signed for X, I want him.

[LA Vikes Fan]

17 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Your first paragraph actually argues that neither Emma nor Bader would be 4th OFers. If Castro is at 2B/util who is your starting OF and DH? I'd bet Larnach is your DH and you don't have anyone in LF but Martin, Helman, or Keirsey.

I disagree. My view is that Larnach and Wallner play 5-6 days a week, 4 in the OF and 1 at DH for at least the first half of the season. That includes starting against LH pitching. Bader get his ABs in CF with Buxton playing 4 days a week there and 1-2 at DH, plus the inevitable Il stint for Buxton. The DH spot is a rotation of guys that includes Lewis and Mirnada. Bader gets his 200-250 ABs in the 50-70 games he has to start in CF for Buxton. This is the year to find out if Larnach and Wallner can be everyday players or are platoon guys. Play them every day.   

[NYCTK]

7 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

No connection whatsoever. I was merely saying that Bader is now a Twin and hoping he has a good season. I have no expectations at all. The numbers were just to promote a positive view. I'm not sure how you managed the comparison but rest easy there was no such thing. We don't know what any player will do in the 2025 season.

Likely? Who was the most discussed and hyped player of this entire offseason? Roki Sasaki. He could be ROY or go down with TJ surgery. The future is unknown.

Yes. Very likely actually. If you're striking out in over 35% of your PAs your average is going to be very low.

[tony&rodney]

5 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Yes. Very likely actually. If you're striking out in over 35% of your PAs your average is going to be very low.

The future will tell us the answer. The past tells us that ER hit .280 last year with a .298 BA at AA. My point remains that the guy has great talent and nobody will know what is the end result until the end has come. I'm a little surprised you are questioning ER when you have already stated you have not seen him play. Nevertheless, it is clear that there are quite different thoughts on the player and you have a similar mind  to Falvey perhaps on these matters.

[chpettit19]

15 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I didn't know much about Castro when they acquired him, but he looked really good in the spring training game I watched. He earned his way onto the team by playing well. He's the counterexample to these assertions that the Twins never play the young guys and only play aging veterans. They don't play the young guys because most of them aren't very good and they haven't earned it. Miranda earned his way up, so did Larnach and Wallner. Brooks Lee is getting playing time despite not really earning it yet.

Harrison Bader is blocking NOBODY. Emmanuel Rodriguez has barely played at AAA and is first on the depth chart for a callup as soon as there is an injury. Keaschall has barely played at AA and his results were not great. The rest of the guys in the upper minors are non-prospects. Helman, Gasper and Keirsey aren't even young.

I don't have space to list all the counterexamples. There are hundreds, possibly thousands of players who had an OPS in the 800s in Double-A and weren't good enough for MLB.

Castro got his roster spot because of an injury to a veteran and another young player. They didn't move a veteran out of the way for him. He's not that counterexample. Jorge Polanco and Alex Kirilloff being hurt got him a roster spot. He would've been sent to the minors no matter what his spring looked like if either one of those guys were healthy. Or Buxton could play CF if you really want to get into it. If Keaschall or Rodriguez or Keirsey or Helman or any of those guys "look really good in the spring training game" you watch this year is that going to be them "earning it?" Are they going to move Bader aside for them? Lee looked good in spring training last year but that wasn't "earning it." Why was Castro looking good in spring "earning it?" Your definition of "earning it" for him is simply that he was on the roster. He "earned it" by getting a chance. An extended chance at that. Because his OPS through his first 30 games (midway through May) was a whopping .607. He got to stay on the roster because they didn't have any vets to replace him which allowed him to work through his struggles and improve. Which is literally what we're asking for with the other guys instead of rostering the Margot, Farmer, Gallo, Bader types. He was a non-prospect nobody expected anything out of who got a chance because the Twins didn't have a choice and he improved and ended up being a useful piece.

Just like Joey Gallo wasn't blocking anyone? And Margot wasn't blocking anyone? Come on. This is provably false by the way they run their team. Margot blocked Martin who outperformed him in every offensive category. Gallo blocked Wallner who more than earned it in AAA. Shoot, Andrelton Simmons blocked Jose Miranda in 2021 because they wouldn't just cut his useless self and move Polanco or Gordon to SS in a lost season and let Miranda get his feet wet while he put up a .973 OPS in the upper minors over 127 games and Donaldson spent most of the 2nd half DHing. But Jake Cave, Willians Astudillo, Kyle Garlick, and Rob freaking Refsnyder sure got some run that year. Really paid off big in 2022, huh? .973 wasn't "earning it" either?

Yes, there are endless examples on both sides of the AA performance argument. You're the one stating as fact that somebody isn't ready based on AA OPS numbers. I'm arguing that you don't know. What we are much closer to knowing is that Harrison Bader is going to be average at best. And if they had a veteran like Bader they could've used in 2023 they would've used him over Castro. Especially after those first 30 games where he wasn't good. But they didn't have the option so the non-prospect who was 26 years old got the chance by default and now you call him "a very good contributor."

[NYCTK]

16 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

The past tells us that ER hit .280 last year with a .298 BA at AA.

The past also tells us he's a career .250 hitter in the minors. Just like everyone's favorite player Joey Gallo. 

[chpettit19]

27 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I disagree. My view is that Larnach and Wallner play 5-6 days a week, 4 in the OF and 1 at DH for at least the first half of the season. That includes starting against LH pitching. Bader get his ABs in CF with Buxton playing 4 days a week there and 1-2 at DH, plus the inevitable Il stint for Buxton. The DH spot is a rotation of guys that includes Lewis and Mirnada. Bader gets his 200-250 ABs in the 50-70 games he has to start in CF for Buxton. This is the year to find out if Larnach and Wallner can be everyday players or are platoon guys. Play them every day.   

The Twins have no more than 3 lefties on their roster right now mostly like, right? Larnach, Wallner, and maybe Julien? Why would we think they're going to start against LH pitching?

I wish they'd play them every day and see if they can be everyday players, but why would we expect that to be the actual situation? Do you really think Rocco is going to play them against lefties over any right-handed option? I don't think that's likely.

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Last Year around this time. I questioned if giving up one big piece (Polanco) for 4 smaller pieces was good strategy. I wasn't even being definitive at the time but you took that question and forced me to defend Polanco while you talked about how the Twins were log-jammed with Julien and Farmer covering 2B and then you proceded to beat me over the head with how Cleveland built their roster like I didn't understand how Cleveland built their roster even after I acknowledged that the Twins may have won the trade with the acquisition of Gabriel Gonzalez alone. You also lumped me into a group of people who wanted the Twins to spend like there is no tomorrow when I've never once complained about pay roll. 

If you are capable of understanding my point. I'll answer your question. If your not capable of understanding my point... Just ignore my answer and we will keep our distance from each other. 

Your Question: Which RH (Other than Vazquez) do I want to get rid of or replace with a LH? 

My Answer: Harrison Bader

So, why talk about the problem with the other 8 RH hitters if your only concern is Bader?

[chpettit19]

53 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I am guessing that revenue sharing is up due to the rich teams spending more money above the luxury tax.

That's possible.

[chpettit19]

50 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

If Rodriguez can avoid injury he'll get plenty of chances to play MLB games this summer.

Very likely, yes. 

[chpettit19]

55 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Alonso was NEVER signing with the Twins. And you're not going to get a hard payroll commitment during the offseason so you guys can play armchair GM more fittingly.

Y'all are demanding impossibilities. 

Just like Correa was NEVER signing with the Twins.

I'm not asking for me to get a hard payroll number. What an incredibly weird argument. But Falvey should probably have a pretty good idea about what he's allowed to spend during the offseason, shouldn't he? That's what I'm talking about. Like everybody else. We're judging the front office on the information we have available. That information has changed. Once information changes it's pretty logical to change your assessment of what's taken place. My questions are about whether or not Falvey knew he had up to 150 mil to spend from the beginning of the offseason or if it's a new development.

Nobody is demanding that we know their budget. That's nonsense. Again, you're arguing against things I'm not saying.

[NYCTK]

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

We're judging the front office on the information we have available.

What I'm seeing is lots of people here freaking out over a small free agent contract that improves the team because of assumptions they've made about the Twins budget based on vague comments to Aaron Gleeman. 

[chpettit19]

46 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Couple of guys who have been good at AA are not effected by the Bader signing.  Not remotely.

Everyone gets all focused on the vet in the way and ignore the kid not being very good. Yet.

Bader effects Martin. That's it. Especially now that they don't have to shed salary to make it work.

If you want a stars and kids roster, well, we already have that. The math isn't as simple as that guy signed for X, I want him.

That isn't all he effects at all. I actually don't think he effects Martin in any way. Martin is still on the MLB roster from my estimation. And that means he's still likely a short side platoon bat who will get a little playing time at 2B as well. If the idea is that Bader is a platoon for a corner OFer because he doesn't move Larnach to most time DH then Martin remains the most obvious other platoon bat for the 2 lefties we know will be on the roster.

Yes, some of us focus on the kids because of the word "yet." Yet is the key. Yet keeps pushing things back because of the average at best vet. And maybe it isn't "yet." Maybe the kids are good now. You don't get to find out because the average at best vet is taking the PAs. 

At the end of the day it's a matter of taste on team building. Some people like the floor building vets and some of us prefer the possible ceiling raising kids. 

And of course, the math isn't that simple, but it gives an idea. The Twins could never afford Correa until they could. Is Bregman going to settle for a 1-year deal, too? This is happening every year now. Big time players don't get the big deal they want and take essentially 1-year deals. The Twins could've paid Alonso 30 mil this year. They could pay Bregman 30 mil. Shoot, apparently, they could've paid them 35. The math isn't that simple, but it's also not just blindly "those guys are never coming here." I'd prefer to be in the race for one of those guys and still be able to snag these average at best vets late in the offseason like we do. Instead we don't join any races and then sign the average at best vets late anyways. Outside of the point proving Correa deal, obviously.

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

What I'm seeing is lots of people here freaking out over a small free agent contract that improves the team because of assumptions they've made about the Twins budget based on vague comments to Aaron Gleeman. 

Then you're not looking closely enough.

[NYCTK]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

That isn't all he effects at all. I actually don't think he effects Martin in any way. Martin is still on the MLB roster from my estimation.

You don't think the Twins signing a CF backup and general 4th OF affects last years primary backup CF and this years presumed 4th OF? 

K. 

3 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Some people like the floor building vets and some of us prefer the possible ceiling raising kids. 

What kids are you all talking about? Theres Rodriguez. And...

[NYCTK]

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

The Twins could've paid Alonso 30 mil this year.

No. They absolutely could not have. This isn't a video game. 

You understand the players have agency, right? Pete Alonso wanted to remain a Met. And Boras worked out a deal to allow him to do so for a bit longer. 

[thelanges5]

Can we just move Larnach to 1B already? With Jenkins and Emma knocking at the MLB door Larnach needs a long term home. 

[tony&rodney]

27 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

The past also tells us he's a career .250 hitter in the minors. Just like everyone's favorite player Joey Gallo. 

Look, you don't know anything about this player and I'm not at all understanding what point you are trying to make. Stats are always a poor resort or do you think it was a mistake for the Yankees to allow Aaron Judge MLB time after hitting .224 at AAA in 2015? I'm not God so I don't know how ER will do this year or next anymore than I know next week's winning lottery numbers but if you do let me know so I can buy a ticket.