Who Should Be the Twins' Primary Cleanup Hitter Now that Max Kepler is Gone?

[1985Fan]

12 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

I agree that Diaz would help the lineup and lengthen the lineup. I disagree that the Twins cannot afford Diaz or others. It is a choice. There have been and still are options. I believe, until proven wrong, that Falvey has his team exactly as it is currently rostered. Money has nothing to do with it. Falvey has said that on numerous occasions and we have seen how the team has backed its players and let trade opportunities slide away. The Twins like what they have. Nothing wrong with that. Roll it back and expect improvements through experience, etc. This (at this time) looks like the plan. Has anyone heard anything to suggest anything different?

You’re correct in that Falvey has the roster the way he wants it. Falvey hints at making a trade in article on Twins website. I’m inclined to believe that is just his attempt to keep fans interest during the offseason. 
I can agree that the pitching staff is deep. Even the BP looks good on paper. Falvey says in the article that the roster has a solid foundation built around Correa, Buxton, and Lewis. He’s betting his job on that foundation. We’ll see how that works out. 
I don’t see Lewis as a solid piece of the core or foundation. He still has to prove he can hit MLB pitching. He looked completely lost at the plate the last half of the season without an injury to blame. He has a lot to prove. The same is true of the entire roster. Correa and Buxton have proven that they can hit when healthy. Everyone else has only shown flashes of solid offense and then long slumps. Their core is dependent on two guys that can’t stay healthy and the rest are big question marks. Thats a lot of improvement to hope for. 

 

 

[Hubie29]

4 hours ago, old nurse said:

So the Dodgers signing. Max Muncy and Chris Taylor off the scrap heap as well as the Twins with Castro  were hopeless moves, 

Cmon Nurse you can do better.  Muncy and Taylor would be top 5 on our roster, hardly scrap heap. We can't afford someone like that. I am talking DeSclafani. Topa, Luplow, Gallo, Paddack etc etc. (I know these were trades, but we can't do that right either. ) Guys cheap due to injuries or can't find a team that wants them. That's all we ever sign in free agency. We should start signing some in about 2 months when the meat is gone and the carcass is still there. IF we could at least spend to get a Muncy or Taylor, Twins fans would be ecstatic. I will remember you come June and see what you think of our potent line up at that time. Also, if you could post a list of mid tier FA's we have signed this winter, I would appreciate it. Maybe you could update it every week. Thanks!

[Hubie29]

2 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

I agree that Diaz would help the lineup and lengthen the lineup. I disagree that the Twins cannot afford Diaz or others. It is a choice. There have been and still are options. I believe, until proven wrong, that Falvey has his team exactly as it is currently rostered. Money has nothing to do with it. Falvey has said that on numerous occasions and we have seen how the team has backed its players and let trade opportunities slide away. The Twins like what they have. Nothing wrong with that. Roll it back and expect improvements through experience, etc. This (at this time) looks like the plan. Has anyone heard anything to suggest anything different?

Nope.  And it looks like another mediocre to poor season.  How can anyone like this roster and think it's going to be competitive? It's worse than last year with the subtractions. I don't get it. 

[1985Fan]

Did the Twins miss out on a minor league signing of Eloy Jimenez? Seems like a low cost gamble for bounce back potential for DH. Why not give him a shot when he’s so cheap. I know he has had terrible seasons and is an injury risk, but as a minor league flyer, should have been worth a shot. This also cements earlier comments that Falvey is perfectly fine with the roster as is. I don’t expect any trades or additions unless someone begs to take Vazquez or Paddock of our hands. 

[old nurse]

3 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

Cmon Nurse you can do better.  Muncy and Taylor would be top 5 on our roster, hardly scrap heap. We can't afford someone like that. I am talking DeSclafani. Topa, Luplow, Gallo, Paddack etc etc. (I know these were trades, but we can't do that right either. ) Guys cheap due to injuries or can't find a team that wants them. That's all we ever sign in free agency. We should start signing some in about 2 months when the meat is gone and the carcass is still there. IF we could at least spend to get a Muncy or Taylor, Twins fans would be ecstatic. I will remember you come June and see what you think of our potent line up at that time. Also, if you could post a list of mid tier FA's we have signed this winter, I would appreciate it. Maybe you could update it every week. Thanks!

Taylor was signed after being cut by the Giants, Muncy was cut by the A’s. The Dodgers signed the as scrap heap players   Success levels. Of mid tier free agents. Perhaps you would. Like to prove it is a commonplace success story for franchises before insisting on it 

[Hubie29]

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

Taylor was signed after being cut by the Giants, Muncy was cut by the A’s. The Dodgers signed the as scrap heap players   Success levels. Of mid tier free agents. Perhaps you would. Like to prove it is a commonplace success story for franchises before insisting on it 

All im saying nurse is Taylor and Muncy would be top 5 players on our roster. I would do cartwheels at the age of 63 if we could even dip into their end of the pool. They are not scrap compared to what we are signing. That's how pathetic our roster is and our free agent activity. With all the contradictions I'm getting and thumbs down, I am putting my social security checks aside so I can afford those world series tickets baby! Can't wait to see what you all have to say in June.  This should be funny!

[dxpavelka]

On 12/23/2024 at 3:38 PM, Hubie29 said:

I've been sitting back reading posts about who's gonna hit cleanup. Who's gonna play third. Who's gonna play first. Who will backup Buxton.  On a real team, Buxton would be the backup. Names being thrown out like Lee, Larnach, Wallner, Martin, Julien, Miranda etc., etc., etc., just solidify how inept this team and front office are. Free agents are flying off the board, and we just sit back, because we are smarter than everyone else. We are set! It is so discouraging and demoralizing that it is very hard to get excited for the upcoming season. The greatest sport in the world, and most exciting preseason in sport, and it leaves me not caring. Hopefully we get new owners soon that can bring back the excitement to greatest game on earth. Until then, there is no excitement in Twinkytown.

and your Buxton comment solidifies just how inept your comments are

[Hubie29]

40 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

and your Buxton comment solidifies just how inept your comments are

Too funny. I can't believe how you all change your mind like the wind. Gonna be a fun upcoming year quoting all you guys that have rose colored glasses. How soon until everyone, including you my man, throws in the towel this coming year because Buxton is hurt, hitting .222 before getting hurt.  Bullpen is in shambles.  Starting rotation has a 4.50 era.  Duran has blown 6 saves. The scrap pile acquisitions are out for the year. Actually never got on the field. It's year after year, but you just keep putting on those rose colored glasses. Why should the owner spend money? Why should Falvey do anything? We have the perfect team now according to most people. 

Tell me a comment of mine that is inept?

I realize the people that completely disagree with me are looking at things as being a homer and a true Twins fan. But it's these feelings and thoughts from fans that allow the organizination to put subpar talent on the field. You will keep coming back for mediocrity year after year. 

[dxpavelka]

3 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

Too funny. I can't believe how you all change your mind like the wind. Gonna be a fun upcoming year quoting all you guys that have rose colored glasses. How soon until everyone, including you my man, throws in the towel this coming year because Buxton is hurt, hitting .222 before getting hurt.  Bullpen is in shambles.  Starting rotation has a 4.50 era.  Duran has blown 6 saves. The scrap pile acquisitions are out for the year. Actually never got on the field. It's year after year, but you just keep putting on those rose colored glasses. Why should the owner spend money? Why should Falvey do anything? We have the perfect team now according to most people. 

Tell me a comment of mine that is inept?

I realize the people that completely disagree with me are looking at things as being a homer and a true Twins fan. But it's these feelings and thoughts from fans that allow the organizination to put subpar talent on the field. You will keep coming back for mediocrity year after year. 

didn't agree or disagree with you about a single thing except your Buxton take.  Don't put words in my mouth *******.

[weitz41]

Pete Alonso would make a nice cleanup hitter...OH yeah nvm...

[old nurse]

11 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

All im saying nurse is Taylor and Muncy would be top 5 players on our roster. I would do cartwheels at the age of 63 if we could even dip into their end of the pool. They are not scrap compared to what we are signing. That's how pathetic our roster is and our free agent activity. With all the contradictions I'm getting and thumbs down, I am putting my social security checks aside so I can afford those world series tickets baby! Can't wait to see what you all have to say in June.  This should be funny!

You complained about the Twins signing scrap heap players I pointed out 3 players who were failures and were picked off the scrap heap  that did fine. There is something that you do not seem to understand here. Ho, they are not now scrap heap players, but they were at one point in their career. What is so hard about understanding that? Still waiting on the proof that mid tier free agents are the panacea to all baseball problems 

[Hubie29]

9 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

didn't agree or disagree with you about a single thing except your Buxton take.  Don't put words in my mouth *******.

You said my comments were inept. That's signifies more than one in the English language. Was just asking for clarification *******.

[Hubie29]

2 hours ago, old nurse said:

You complained about the Twins signing scrap heap players I pointed out 3 players who were failures and were picked off the scrap heap  that did fine. There is something that you do not seem to understand here. Ho, they are not now scrap heap players, but they were at one point in their career. What is so hard about understanding that? Still waiting on the proof that mid tier free agents are the panacea to all baseball problems 

I can tell you are an old nurse, because it's hard to get you to see gray instead of black and white. You won't understand the point i am making after needing to explain it for the third time, so I won't. Still waiting for a FA list update. Will you our can you do that?

[old nurse]

3 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

I can tell you are an old nurse, because it's hard to get you to see gray instead of black and white. You won't understand the point i am making after needing to explain it for the third time, so I won't. Still waiting for a FA list update. Will you our can you do that?

So now you want to make it a personal attack. Okay. Your premise on scrap heap players all being bad is a false one. That was a black and white premise on your part. Mid tier plays. Gallo was considered a mid tier player at the time, as was Vazquez.  Saying that mid tier free agents would solve the problem of the Twins is black and white thinking Now if you want to attack my nursing you can just **** off 

[Bob Twins Fan Since 61]

On 12/23/2024 at 3:38 PM, Hubie29 said:

I've been sitting back reading posts about who's gonna hit cleanup. Who's gonna play third. Who's gonna play first. Who will backup Buxton.  On a real team, Buxton would be the backup. Names being thrown out like Lee, Larnach, Wallner, Martin, Julien, Miranda etc., etc., etc., just solidify how inept this team and front office are. Free agents are flying off the board, and we just sit back, because we are smarter than everyone else. We are set! It is so discouraging and demoralizing that it is very hard to get excited for the upcoming season. The greatest sport in the world, and most exciting preseason in sport, and it leaves me not caring. Hopefully we get new owners soon that can bring back the excitement to greatest game on earth. Until then, there is no excitement in Twinkytown.

I would offer the reason they are sitting back is because of the budget constraints the Pohlads have directed.  Any move made will require the budget to stay flat.  Tough position to be in when other teams and player agents know it.  I wouldn't put the blame on Falvey and his team but squarely on the Pohlads.  Agree with the hope new owners can bring back the excitement again.  

[Hubie29]

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

So now you want to make it a personal attack. Okay. Your premise on scrap heap players all being bad is a false one. That was a black and white premise on your part. Mid tier plays. Gallo was considered a mid tier player at the time, as was Vazquez.  Saying that mid tier free agents would solve the problem of the Twins is black and white thinking Now if you want to attack my nursing you can just **** off 

Calm down old guy. Not attacking your nursing. Good bless nurses. Not personally attacking you either. You just have a skewed opinion.  That's ok. There a few who see it your way. Not many, but I am sure there are. Oh by the way,  Merry Christmas! PS... you shouldn't use that language. 

[old nurse]

15 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

Calm down old guy. Not attacking your nursing. Good bless nurses. Not personally attacking you either. You just have a skewed opinion.  That's ok. There a few who see it your way. Not many, but I am sure there are. Oh by the way,  Merry Christmas! PS... you shouldn't use that language. 

Go back and read you words. Go **** yourself is about as clear as I can make it. 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

On 12/23/2024 at 10:12 PM, DocBauer said:

Just not going in to another arguement how important Castro is to the 2025 Twins and why I'd keep him, potentially extend him, etc. I'm just addressing the current Twins team best I can. I'm also not going to play the "Rocco never has the same lineup anyway" game. Every manager changes their lineup based on guys needing a day off, and changing the lineup at least somewhat depending on the pitcher being faced. Believe it or not, Kelly and Gardenhire did the same.

But as currently constructed, VS the dominate RHP side of things;

1] Castro

2] Correa

3] Lewis

4] Wallner

5] Buxton

6] Larnach

7] Miranda 

8] Lee

9] Jeffers/ Catcher

The best mix against RHP. Hard for the opposition to deploy their pen. Less pressure on the young Lee to hit lower, and expecting some sort of split time at catcher with Jeffers.

Wallner and Buxton offer up a strange mix of K's along with tremendous power and production. You just HAVE to have those dangerous bats to fill the #4 and #5 spots. 6-9 don't exactly suck! 

Obviously Buxton out, and facing a LHP changes the completion of the lineup. But everyone ready to go, that's the optimum lineup daily against RHP.

 

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here.  IMO the guys you have 3-7 in the lineup are relatively interchangeable, with lot depending on how they are playing on any given day.

I am a big believer on getting AB for your best hitters and OB guys, so there is an argument to be made that Buxton and Larnach should be 3/4 moving Lewis down.  But there is still a lot of uncertainty around, well... that whole group.  

[Riverbrian]

Who hits 4th? Whoever lands in the 4th spot on that given day.  

Here's how I would construct a lineup? Space your lefties and righties out... don't pile up the left handers so a left handed reliever can come in and take them out in the 5th inning. If you are going to pinch hit them in the 5th inning and the Twins have consistently done this. Don't place them 1, 2 and 4 in the lineup so one lefty can just remove every single one of them from the game in one fell swoop.  

Then... You put your best hitters at the time at the top of the lineup. What do I mean by best hitters AT THE TIME. If Kepler is in a 1 for 16 streak. You can move him down in the lineup. He doesn't have to stay in the 4 spot rain or shine for some psychological reason or for some I need to know where I am in the order for stability reason. If you move him down because he struggling for a stretch and he heats up in the 8th spot. You can move him back to the 4th spot. 

Using that simple criteria. On Opening day... using the current roster against a right hander and projecting who I think would be the best hitters. 

Assuming that Wallner and Larnach are in the lineup to represent the lefties. I would rank them in that order.     

Assuming that Castro and Lee are in the lineup as switch hitters standing in the left handed batters box. I would rank them in that order. 

And Assuming that Correa, Lewis, Buxton, Miranda and Jeffers are in the lineup as right handed hitters. I would rank them in that order.  

Starting with the lefties... I would space them out Wallner 2, Larnach 7 

I would then space out the righties, Correa 1, Lewis 3, Buxton 4, Miranda 6 and Jeffers 8

Leaving the Switch hitters to space out with Castro into the 5 spot and Lee in the 9th. 

Leaving you with a lineup on opening day

1. Correa SS (R)

2. Wallner RF(L)

3. Lewis 3B or 2B (R)

4. Buxton CF (R)

5. Castro LF (S)

6. Miranda 1B (R)

7. Larnach DH (L)

8. Jeffers C (R) 

9. Lee 3B or 2B (S)

This batting order is for opening day or the opening weeks. It would not be static. It would adjust according to actual performance on the field and availability. The players will let you know who should be at the top of the lineup, therefore getting more AB's based on performance not projected performance.

Just keep them spaced out. If Royce Lewis starts the season 0 for 20. You can move him down to the bottom of the order in the RIGHT HANDED SPACING. If Correa then starts to heat up, you can them move him back up based on his starting to be Royce Lewis again. 

I love Royce Lewis and I think he is a superstar. However, Royce only hit 6 or below in the order just one time in 2024. He was pretty locked into 3, 4 or 5 in the lineup.   

Which is a big deal when you consider his .620 OPS after the all-star break. I know we were not over flowing with offensive options post all-star break due to the key injuries of Correa and Buxton but... .620 OPS after the all star break is an EXTENDED slump with no reaction or consequence from management in regards to his place in the batting order. 

Be Fluid... It's ok to move them around in the order. Best of the bunch at the time toward the top of the lineup. Space them out so opposing managers can't easily counter move.   

The answer to the question... Who should replace Kepler at the 4 spot? Nobody specific. Whoever pencils into it that particular day. The players will let you know. 

 

[twinstalker]

I don't think it's possible to replace Kepler in the clean-up spot.

[Fatbat]

Probably gonna be a 5 guy rotation spot in the lineup.