2023 Vikings Regular Season Thread

[Aggies7]

Mullens to start Sunday, as expected 

[Danchat]

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I don't think Hall was even projected to get drafted.

I had a 6th round grade on him, he was generally expected to go round 5-7.

53 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You wanted him to fix the defense in two years? There are all of two guys on the roster there that were on the team when he started. Two. That's almost impossible. That's how bad Spielman was. 

To be fair to Spielman, he at least provided them with Bynum and Metellus, and the entire edge room is Spielman players as KAM only added Za'Darius (gone) and Davenport (about to be gone). The edge room is literally empty on paper in 2025 with only a UDFA under contract, the CB room is full of question marks, the DL only has run stuffers, and the safety room is good. That's not the result I was hoping for after two years of the new regime. The entire 2022 draft class is up in flames and the 2023 class looks good, but it was only a 1st and then a very late 3rd and 4th plus a few other late guys.

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

But even excluding Purdy from the discussion, how were undrafted Tommy DeVito and Tyson Bagent more prepared to play than Hall? Bagent played DII ball for Pete's sake.

Yeah, that's a hard pill to swallow... though other Day 3 QBs like Clayton Tune, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, and Aidan O'Connell also looked overwhelmed in their first full starts. 

[Mike Sixel]

34 minutes ago, Danchat said:

I had a 6th round grade on him, he was generally expected to go round 5-7.

To be fair to Spielman, he at least provided them with Bynum and Metellus, and the entire edge room is Spielman players as KAM only added Za'Darius (gone) and Davenport (about to be gone). The edge room is literally empty on paper in 2025 with only a UDFA under contract, the CB room is full of question marks, the DL only has run stuffers, and the safety room is good. That's not the result I was hoping for after two years of the new regime. The entire 2022 draft class is up in flames and the 2023 class looks good, but it was only a 1st and then a very late 3rd and 4th plus a few other late guys.

Yeah, that's a hard pill to swallow... though other Day 3 QBs like Clayton Tune, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, and Aidan O'Connell also looked overwhelmed in their first full starts. 

Outside Hunter, those edge players stink. Again, I'm not defending his drafts! There just wasn't much to work with either. Two different things. 

Again, I'd fire him if this next off season isn't great 

[stringer bell]

On 1/3/2024 at 2:03 PM, Aggies7 said:

Mullens to start Sunday, as expected 

Mullens seems the best bet right now although I don't know if he has a future with the Vikings. When the Vikings take the field on Sunday, they'll still be technically in the race for the #7 seed, so it is probably the right call to start Mullens. 

What is the over/under on holdovers in the QB room in 2024 (counting this season as 2023)?

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

Mullens seems the best bet right now although I don't know if he has a future with the Vikings. When the Vikings take the field on Sunday, they'll still be technically in the race for the #7 seed, so it is probably the right call to start Mullens. 

What is the over/under on holdovers in the QB room in 2024 (counting this season as 2023)?

I could see Mullens returning but not the other two. There just aren’t very many serviceable backups out there to think we can easily sign one. Then again if you draft a QB, Mullens would probably go elsewhere 

[nicksaviking]

15 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

I could see Mullens returning but not the other two. There just aren’t very many serviceable backups out there to think we can easily sign one. Then again if you draft a QB, Mullens would probably go elsewhere 

I think there will be plenty of serviceable back ups next year, particularly with what is likely to be six new rookie QBs minimum added to active rosters and not just practice squads. Guys like Gardner Minshew, Taylor Heinike, Tyrod Taylor, Jacoby Brissett, Tyler Huntley, Mason Rudolph, Ryan Tannehill, Andy Dalton, Carson Wentz and Drew Lock aren't exciting in the least, but should be available as backups and better than what the Vikings have now. Jimmy Garoppolo is still TBD, but would be a serviceable back up.

And add Joe Flacco and Jake Browning if they haven't done enough (or are too old, sorry Joe) to find starting jobs. But actually, those two kind of look like the 'bridge' QB a team like the Vikings might pick at should they draft a QB.

[Vanimal46]

I really hope Mullens wasn’t named starter to chase a 3% chance of making the playoffs. 

[nicksaviking]

11 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I really hope Mullens wasn’t named starter to chase a 3% chance of making the playoffs. 

That would be embarrassing. Not just the desperation, but actually making the playoffs.

The 2024 Vikings making the playoffs would be worse than those sub-.500 division winners making the playoffs. This is an awful team.

[stringer bell]

3 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

That would be embarrassing. Not just the desperation, but actually making the playoffs.

The 2024 Vikings making the playoffs would be worse than those sub-.500 division winners making the playoffs. This is an awful team.

2.3% is infinitely more than 0%. I think you have to try to win Sunday rather than using the game for evaluation, I agree that the Vikings are not worthy of making the playoffs. but they wouldn't turn down the opportunity.

[Mike Sixel]

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

That would be embarrassing. Not just the desperation, but actually making the playoffs.

The 2024 Vikings making the playoffs would be worse than those sub-.500 division winners making the playoffs. This is an awful team.

Look, if you make the playoffs, you beat enough other teams to do so. Nothing to be embarrassed about at all.

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, stringer bell said:

2.3% is infinitely more than 0%. I think you have to try to win Sunday rather than using the game for evaluation, I agree that the Vikings are not worthy of making the playoffs. but they wouldn't turn down the opportunity.

I would happily decline the invite. I’ve not yet hit the half century mark and I’ve already had my fill of meaningless playoff embarrassments. We are talking about the difference in drafting 18th and as high as 9th and no lower than 12th. From 9th-12th they have a shot to at least trade up for a franchise altering QB if one doesn’t fall to them. At the 18th it’s just the same old song and dance.

 

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I would happily decline the invite. I’ve not yet hit the half century mark and I’ve already had my fill of meaningless playoff embarrassments. We are talking about the difference in drafting 18th and as high as 9th and no lower than 12th. From 9th-12th they have a shot to at least trade up for a franchise altering QB if one doesn’t fall to them. At the 18th it’s just the same old song and dance.

 

I'm with you, I'd rather pick as early as possible, but I'm not with you that going is embarrassing.

[nicksaviking]

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'm with you, I'd rather pick as early as possible, but I'm not with you that going is embarrassing.

That’s fair. Bad word to use too. Im not embarrassed, I'm just angry. I want the prime directive to be to take the chances and do the things necessary to be the best team in the NFC. Instead the prime directive always seems to be to not be the worst team. If being the worst team helps to get to the prime directive, DO IT.

[Vanimal46]

5 hours ago, stringer bell said:

2.3% is infinitely more than 0%

It's literally 2.3% so what are you talking about?

[nicksaviking]

52 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

It's literally 2.3% so what are you talking about?

It's in the Vikings best interest to lose so while rational math says it's 2.3%, destiny math says it's probably closer to 80%.

[ashbury]

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I would happily decline the invite. I’ve not yet hit the half century mark and I’ve already had my fill of meaningless playoff embarrassments.

Yeah, the team should aim high.  Make this playoff embarrassment meaningful!

[nicksaviking]

On 1/5/2024 at 10:00 PM, ashbury said:

Yeah, the team should aim high.  Make this playoff embarrassment meaningful!

Not sure if they are able to make a playoff embarrassment meaningful, but few teams are able to make them as memorable. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

In the modern NFL, if you can’t get to 11 wins, you’re almost assuredly better off getting to 11 (or more) losses.  The Vikings (once Kirk was hurt) were never going to get to 11 wins, but they then failed at failing by beating NO, ATL, and LVR, which is why they’re picking 11th.  Lose one more game, and they’re picking 6th.  Lose 2 more, and it’s the 5th pick.  Lose all 3 of those games, and the Vikings are picking 3rd—guaranteed to get one of the top 3 QBs.  Those 3 wins might haunt the franchise for half a decade.

[gunnarthor]

1 hour ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

In the modern NFL, if you can’t get to 11 wins, you’re almost assuredly better off getting to 11 (or more) losses.  The Vikings (once Kirk was hurt) were never going to get to 11 wins, but they then failed at failing by beating NO, ATL, and LVR, which is why they’re picking 11th.  Lose one more game, and they’re picking 6th.  Lose 2 more, and it’s the 5th pick.  Lose all 3 of those games, and the Vikings are picking 3rd—guaranteed to get one of the top 3 QBs.  Those 3 wins might haunt the franchise for half a decade.

Tanking doesn't work and it's something that seriously hurts the sport. Both the NBA and MLB have had to deal with teams tanking and it ruins the product. The NFL gets this right. I'm glad the Vikings played to win every game. I wish they had beat the  Bucs. I'm not going to criticize the FO or KOC for trying to win. Now that the season is over, let's see what their plan is. They need to fix the defense, hopefully Flores sticks around and the team can see improvement for next year. 

As for QB, the draft might have as many as seven first round QBs. We're drafting high enough that we can get Nix, Penix, McCarthy if we want them. We could probably trade up a few spots if we really wanted to as well.

[gunnarthor]

Head coaches getting the axe: Falcons fired Arthur Smith and Washington has fired Ron Rivera. No word yet on Bellichek. 

[Mike Sixel]

49 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Tanking doesn't work and it's something that seriously hurts the sport. Both the NBA and MLB have had to deal with teams tanking and it ruins the product. The NFL gets this right. I'm glad the Vikings played to win every game. I wish they had beat the  Bucs. I'm not going to criticize the FO or KOC for trying to win. Now that the season is over, let's see what their plan is. They need to fix the defense, hopefully Flores sticks around and the team can see improvement for next year. 

As for QB, the draft might have as many as seven first round QBs. We're drafting high enough that we can get Nix, Penix, McCarthy if we want them. We could probably trade up a few spots if we really wanted to as well.

They need like 7+ more starters on D and a QB and interior OL. Would be a lot easier to fix if they had the 6th pick for sure. They also only have one day 2 pick. 

This team is 2-3 very good off seasons from being good, unless they sign Kirk and Danielle and draft (and get it right) all defense. Then they'll be awful in 2 years again when they have no QB, so that plan better work.

The blown drafts the last two years on defense really, really, set this team back. Having even 2 more average players on D right now would be very helpful. Alas, they do not.

[Cap'n Piranha]

3 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Tanking doesn't work and it's something that seriously hurts the sport. Both the NBA and MLB have had to deal with teams tanking and it ruins the product. The NFL gets this right. I'm glad the Vikings played to win every game. I wish they had beat the  Bucs. I'm not going to criticize the FO or KOC for trying to win. Now that the season is over, let's see what their plan is. They need to fix the defense, hopefully Flores sticks around and the team can see improvement for next year. 

As for QB, the draft might have as many as seven first round QBs. We're drafting high enough that we can get Nix, Penix, McCarthy if we want them. We could probably trade up a few spots if we really wanted to as well.

And if Nix, Penix, and McCarthy end up not being the answer, whereas Williams, Maye, and Daniels all look like upper half QBs?  Or what if the league goes QB crazy (CHI, WAS, NE, ARI, NYG, and ATL pick in the top 8, and could very well want to draft a QB)?

The defense needs to get fixed—maybe that would be easier to do with better draft picks, in order to get better players, or to be able to trade down and get more players?

I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that tanking doesn’t work—it’s universally failed every time it’s been tried?  Also, I wasn’t proposing tanking in the truest sense of the word, that being actively trying not to win games.  I’m saying without Kirk, the Vikings were never going to do anything this year, so why not try to get better for the future?  
 

They could have traded Hunter, Smith, and any other player set to leave/be released, and accumulated more draft capital, while also having the beneficial side effect of being more likely to lose, thus increasing the value of their picks, and improving the odds they get players that can actually help.  That’s not tanking, that’s declining to see a bet while holding two unsuited number cards.

[Aggies7]

5 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

Tanking doesn't work and it's something that seriously hurts the sport. Both the NBA and MLB have had to deal with teams tanking and it ruins the product. The NFL gets this right. I'm glad the Vikings played to win every game. I wish they had beat the  Bucs. I'm not going to criticize the FO or KOC for trying to win. Now that the season is over, let's see what their plan is. They need to fix the defense, hopefully Flores sticks around and the team can see improvement for next year. 

As for QB, the draft might have as many as seven first round QBs. We're drafting high enough that we can get Nix, Penix, McCarthy if we want them. We could probably trade up a few spots if we really wanted to as well.

It’s kind of funny how we fans talk about teams tanking or how teams should lose in order to help the draft status

. Aside from having a fire sale and sending off anything of value, every single guy on the team (and coaches) would be foolish to go out and give a half assed effort to benefit draft status. Aside from the obvious injury risk, the average NFL career is like 3.5 years. I can’t imagine working your entire life to make it to the top of your profession, and then mailing it in for 9 games (after Kirk got hurt), putting your roster spot at risk. Just to hope the team gets better, and you may not even be around to see the benefit.

All sports should have a lottery for the top ten picks.

[Mike Sixel]

21 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

It’s kind of funny how we fans talk about teams tanking or how teams should lose in order to help the draft status

. Aside from having a fire sale and sending off anything of value, every single guy on the team (and coaches) would be foolish to go out and give a half assed effort to benefit draft status. Aside from the obvious injury risk, the average NFL career is like 3.5 years. I can’t imagine working your entire life to make it to the top of your profession, and then mailing it in for 9 games (after Kirk got hurt), putting your roster spot at risk. Just to hope the team gets better, and you may not even be around to see the benefit.

All sports should have a lottery for the top ten picks.

Not one person has said players shouldn't try. That's very different than the GM trading players.

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not one person has said players shouldn't try. That's very different than the GM trading players.

No, but we talk about how they won too many games. Hunter had a great year, but would trading him at the deadline have lost them a couple games? Smith? Guy is a shell of himself and will probably retire this offseason. Other than that, what value was there on the roster that would have significantly affected their final record?
 

They had to get Dobbs because they physically didn’t have 2 healthy QBs on the roster after Kirk got hurt. They probably would have lost to Atlanta on their own had Hall not been injured in-game. What was Dobbs expected to do? He didn’t even know the plays and was improvising. Then he was playing for a roster/starting spot against the saints and balled out. It is what it is.

I just don’t see any moves that could have been made that would have erased enough wins to have a significant impact. Dobbs had a mini-run playing for a roster spot and the only other game they won could have easily been a loss if the raiders didn’t out-inept them.

I remember when there was talk about trading Kirk when the team was 0-3 and 1-4 (a lot by me). Now I love Kirk and want him back next year, but THAT was a move that could have brought some return and also set the team up to lose on its own (not saying he would have approved). But then in classic Vikings fashion, they went out and went on a run before the blown out Achilles. 
 

Sometimes there just arent any moves that can be made to “throw” a season. And if any team failed at that, it wasn’t the Vikings. Look at the Jets. They need a QB and went 3-2 down the stretch. So do the Giants who went 4-3. Vikings went 1-5. And at one point, the bears were going to have 2 top 5 picks. People on rosters and in front offices have a hard time just giving up.