Ramirez and Anderson suspensions...

[FlyingFinn]

44 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

If Jose Ramirez had a similar history of being a ****head I'd be more inclined to spread the blame evenly.

I saw one report that Anderson was mouthing off to one of the young Guardians earlier in the game so Ramirez may have partially been standing up for him when this started, as the team leader.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, FlyingFinn said:

I saw one report that Anderson was mouthing off to one of the young Guardians earlier in the game so Ramirez may have partially been standing up for him when this started, as the team leader.

As I said in one of my posts, Anderson was warned by one of the umps to knock it off for his continual jawing at the rookie Guardian. He was also applying his tags hard, so much that he actually pushed someone off base on Friday. Ramirez said that he did the same on him after his slide, applied a hard tag, so Ramirez got up and had words with him. 

[Nine of twelve]

7 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Boys will be boys doesn't cut it for me. It's a stupid rationalization.

Strongly concur. Maybe men will be boys. Or jerks will be jerks.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

3 games for Ramirez.

6 games for Anderson.

I don't understand how Anderson gets a heftier suspension. Ramirez seemed to be instigate the whole thing. Watching the replays, not really sure what prompted him to jump up and stick his hand in Anderson's face. 

[FlyingFinn]

8 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

3 games for Ramirez.

6 games for Anderson.

I don't understand how Anderson gets a heftier suspension. Ramirez seemed to be instigate the whole thing. Watching the replays, not really sure what prompted him to jump up and stick his hand in Anderson's face. 

Anderson reportedly had already been warned by the umpire before this incident. Plus, he came out of the dugout a 2nd time after being restrained by a teammate. Maybe past history is also a factor.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

4 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

Anderson reportedly had already been warned by the umpire before this incident. Plus, he came out of the dugout a 2nd time after being restrained by a teammate. Maybe past history is also a factor.

I think you're right that past history played a factor. I didn't realize he had been warned before the incident. To me, looked like Ramirez was pissed that Anderson didn't help him up and things escalated quickly from there.

[AZDane]

From what I read, the Guardians had some beef with the way Anderson was tagging people at second, and chirped him about it earlier.  Overly forceful, as if if were delivering a hit.  Ramirez thought he did that to his head and put a finger in Anderson's face over it. You know the rest.
I thought that was ugly as hell and am little surprised each player didn't get a couple games more each.

[jmlease1]

29 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

3 games for Ramirez.

6 games for Anderson.

I don't understand how Anderson gets a heftier suspension. Ramirez seemed to be instigate the whole thing. Watching the replays, not really sure what prompted him to jump up and stick his hand in Anderson's face. 

besides the warning from the umpire earlier, Anderson is also the one who drops his gloves and gets ready to start throwing punches. I think it's fair to drop a little instigator penalty on Anderson. I'm sure they'll both appeal, and I bet it gets reduced by 1 game for Ramirez and 2-3 for Anderson (though I hope it doesn't).

It was quite the rumble, people looked genuinely mad, actual punches were thrown with intent (as opposed to the "clutch and grab" you often see) the managers got into it...next series between these teams might get a little spicy!

[ewen21]

1 hour ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

3 games for Ramirez.

6 games for Anderson.

I don't understand how Anderson gets a heftier suspension. Ramirez seemed to be instigate the whole thing. Watching the replays, not really sure what prompted him to jump up and stick his hand in Anderson's face. 

I enjoyed watching Anderson fall on his can.  

[ewen21]

20 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

Strongly concur. Maybe men will be boys. Or jerks will be jerks.

I do not agree in this case.  This is an example of the players governing themselves and one player being held accountable for, as Ramirez pointed out, ".... disrespecting the game for a while"

As other pointed out he has been provoking some of the younger Guardians with his antics.  He got decked for it and I do not have a problem with that.

 

Anderson has not only had a bad season on the field, but he has behaved poorly on and off the field.  He cheated on his wife and had a child out of wedlock with another woman,  He's been notorious for chirping on the field and this time he did everything he could to start something.  He deserved what he got and this doesn't make Jose Ramirez a jerk,  Ramirez at least told his side of it.  What has Anderson done?  He went on Twitter making bizarre posts.  The guy has problems and if he continues the way he has do not be surprised if he ends up on the deck again.  The White Sox clubhouse is horrible and I don't doubt that he is a big reason for it

[Vanimal46]

I could argue Tim Anderson and Jose Ramirez should have gotten a few more games suspended. 

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, ewen21 said:

I do not agree in this case

This was based on something Francona said about the whole incident ... 'boys will be boys' is how he put it, exactly. These are adults and dismissing it in such a way I don't agree with. That should never be an excuse for such behavior. And I agree that Tim Anderson has gone unchecked for a while now, from the sounds of it. He even was told by an umpire to knock it off, in reference to his comments directed at one of the rookies on the Guardians' team.

[ewen21]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

This was based on something Francona said about the whole incident ... 'boys will be boys' is how he put it, exactly. These are adults and dismissing it in such a way I don't agree with. That should never be an excuse for such behavior. And I agree that Tim Anderson has gone unchecked for a while now, from the sounds of it. He even was told by an umpire to knock it off, in reference to his comments directed at one of the rookies on the Guardians' team.

Anderson raised his hands first so I do not see where Ramirez ought to be included in the bolded part.  When someone raises their hands that means only two things: fight or run.  Ramirez did not run and he was not wrong to fight, in my opinion.

I understand your point of view, but unfortunately I have lived these situations more than I care to think.  Thank the lord it's been 30 years since I had one of those!🤣

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, ewen21 said:

Anderson raised his hands first so I do not see where Ramirez ought to be included in the bolded part.  When someone raises their hands that means only two things: fight or run.  Ramirez did not run and he was not wrong to fight, in my opinion.

I understand your point of view, but unfortunately I have lived these situations more than I care to think.  Thank the lord it's been 30 years since I had one of those!🤣

I got in a fight once … in the fifth grade.

I wasn’t assessing who was more to blame, and of course I don’t blame Ramirez for defending himself, but he didn’t need to get up from his slide and start lecturing Anderson, either. That was an escalation and why he was also suspended. And for taking a swing, even in defense. He could have walked away. He made a choice not to. My disagreement was with Francona who wrapped up the whole incident as boys will be boys, as if that excuses anyone’s and everyone’s behavior as nothing. It’s not an excuse for what happened, no matter who started it, no matter who was defending themselves. That’s my point. You want accountability? You won’t get it with that statement. Not from Anderson, not from anyone. Does that excuse Francona, Grilfol, Sarbaugh and Clase, too? No. Own it, apologize, work to keep it in check next time. None of these guys are boys, they are adults. Act like it. It’s why they were all assessed a consequence for their actions.

But yes, I did like see Anderson go down. He’s a jerk.

[ewen21]

35 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I got in a fight once … in the fifth grade.

I wasn’t assessing who was more to blame, and of course I don’t blame Ramirez for defending himself, but he didn’t need to get up from his slide and start lecturing Anderson, either. That was an escalation and why he was also suspended. And for taking a swing, even in defense. He could have walked away. He made a choice not to. My disagreement was with Francona who wrapped up the whole incident as boys will be boys, as if that excuses anyone’s and everyone’s behavior as nothing. It’s not an excuse for what happened, no matter who started it, no matter who was defending themselves. That’s my point. You want accountability? You won’t get it with that statement. Not from Anderson, not from anyone. Does that excuse Francona, Grilfol, Sarbaugh and Clase, too? No. Own it, apologize, work to keep it in check next time. None of these guys are boys, they are adults. Act like it. It’s why they were all assessed a consequence for their actions.

But yes, I did like see Anderson go down. He’s a jerk.

Fair enough.  I think they got the suspension right, actually.

 

As was said in the Barretta theme song back in the 70s 

“Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time”

[USAFChief]

On 8/7/2023 at 12:28 PM, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

 

I don't understand how Anderson gets a heftier suspension. Ramirez seemed to be instigate the whole thing.

Wait, what?

I'd go the opposite, I don't understand how Anderson only got 6 games.

 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

16 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Wait, what?

I'd go the opposite, I don't understand how Anderson only got 6 games.

 

Based on what? The squaring up was almost simultaneous and Ramirez started the entire incident by jumping up and pointing in his face. If Anderson should get more than 6 games, so should Ramirez.

[Squirrel]

15 hours ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

Based on what? The squaring up was almost simultaneous and Ramirez started the entire incident by jumping up and pointing in his face. If Anderson should get more than 6 games, so should Ramirez.

Anderson had been applying hard tags on Guardian players for two games. So much so, he actually pushed a runner off base the night before. Anderson singled out a Guardian rookie and was jawing at him the whole game, so much so the umpire stepped in and told him to knock it off. (How often do you see an umpire do that? What was Anderson saying that caused the umpire to tell him to shut up?) Anderson straddled 2nd base giving Ramirez no option but to head first slide over the base, not to one side or the other, and then Anderson held his tag on him ... don't know how hard it was. You could see Ramirez' gesture from the ground, almost as saying 'What's up with that?' And yeah, he got up ... but it was Anderson who threw his glove on the ground and took a fighting stance and threw 3-4 punches before Ramirez clocked him in defense. Ramirez also calmed down a lot sooner whereas Anderson was fighting being taken off the field by his teammates. And came back out.