Jump to content
Twins Daily
  • Create Account

Trade Suggestion: Arraez for Kiner-Falefa


stringer bell
 Share

Since the Rangers signed two shortstops to long-term deals, maybe the Twins could get Kiner-Falefa from them. I suggest Arraez as the player to be traded. 
 

I like Arraez, but trading him for a legit and good defensive shortstop makes sense and also opens a spot for Miranda to make the Opening Day roster. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Recommended Posts

Not interested in this at all. Kiner-Falefa is a tremendous fielder, but he's an awful hitter. Not saying to ignore SS defense completely, but Arraez put up the same WAR last year as IKF in 30 fewer games. I don't want any defense only players in the current game. So in a straight up trade I'd be very upset if the Twins did this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The idea of trading to fill holes is worthy. Arraez has more value to us than K-F, however, and also as a player to potentially use in a trade for pitching. Oakland wants a lead-off hitter. If the Twins cannot return value for Arraez, he still is a great player to have in our lineup. The Twins should only trade Arraez for a real solid return. A pitcher like Montas makes sense, although we would need to add a player. Someone like Bassitt should come in a trade without losing Arraez. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't know how Arraez and top prospect Miranda get consistent at-bats as long as Polanco and Donaldson are on this team. I like Arraez's at-bats and I don't think he is that bad in the field, but I get that feeling that he'll not be durable and he has some flaws--lack of speed and power--that limit his value and his ceiling. Kiner-Falefa has four full years of service and is 27 for the 2022 season. While his hitting hasn't been great, I think there is room for it to be better and he is gifted in the field and a plus base runner, areas where the Twins need to improve. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

I just don't know how Arraez and top prospect Miranda get consistent at-bats as long as Polanco and Donaldson are on this team. I like Arraez's at-bats and I don't think he is that bad in the field, but I get that feeling that he'll not be durable and he has some flaws--lack of speed and power--that limit his value and his ceiling. Kiner-Falefa has four full years of service and is 27 for the 2022 season. While his hitting hasn't been great, I think there is room for it to be better and he is gifted in the field and a plus base runner, areas where the Twins need to improve. 

 

I don't think it's wrong to use Arraez as a trade chip, although I'd rather he be used to acquire pitching, but I think it's more the issue of the target in this case. I get that we need a legit SS, just not sure L-K is the one. But I also don't know who, in a trade. But I do agree, Miranda and Arraez on the same team ... at bats will be an issue. And unless Arraez is moved, I think Miranda is in AAA and gets the first call up when someone is injured.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

I just don't know how Arraez and top prospect Miranda get consistent at-bats as long as Polanco and Donaldson are on this team. I like Arraez's at-bats and I don't think he is that bad in the field, but I get that feeling that he'll not be durable and he has some flaws--lack of speed and power--that limit his value and his ceiling. Kiner-Falefa has four full years of service and is 27 for the 2022 season. While his hitting hasn't been great, I think there is room for it to be better and he is gifted in the field and a plus base runner, areas where the Twins need to improve. 

 

No problem trading Arraez (well he's my favorite Twin right now so I'd be bummed), but I don't want Kiner-Falefa. As others have said, I'd much prefer if they move Arraez it's for pitching. With an open DH spot, how much Baldelli and the FO like to rotate and sit players, and the injuries that will happen I'm not that worried about getting Arraez and Miranda ABs. It won't be 500 ABs each, but it'll be a bunch.

I'm just not a fan of glove only players in the 3 true outcome era of the game. Defense will always be important, but it's not as important as it used to be, and I don't really see any reason to believe K-F will improve his hitting. He's been pretty darn consistent. He basically is who he is at this point. And that's a poor man's Andrelton Simmons (in his prime). Singles hitting, no power SS with a good glove. But K-F isn't Simmons in his prime with the glove. Solid backup infielder is all I see. Not trading a starting quality IFer for a backup quality IFer when the team has much bigger needs and can fill the SS hole with a cheap FA signing if they're not going with Correa or Story at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I don't think it's wrong to use Arraez as a trade chip, although I'd rather he be used to acquire pitching, but I think it's more the issue of the target in this case. I get that we need a legit SS, just not sure L-K is the one. But I also don't know who, in a trade. But I do agree, Miranda and Arraez on the same team ... at bats will be an issue. And unless Arraez is moved, I think Miranda is in AAA and gets the first call up when someone is injured.

In a hypothetical world where Donaldson, Polanco, Arraez, and Miranda are all on the 26 man roster, I would set the over under for number of games all 4 are healthy at about 75, and still take the under.  Assuming the Twins don't roster a Cruzesque DH only type player, there will be no problem getting all 4 of those guys playing time, as 2 can play 2nd/3rd, one can DH 3-5 times a week, and the other will likely be hurt or can get days off.  This doesn't even consider that you can hide Arraez in LF once every week or so (especially with righties facing lefty-heavy lineups), and I'm sure you could train up Miranda to do the same if you really wanted to (he played 3 games in LF in 2021).

Finding at bats for all the guys in our projected lineup (at least right now) is not at all a concern for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

No problem trading Arraez (well he's my favorite Twin right now so I'd be bummed), but I don't want Kiner-Falefa. As others have said, I'd much prefer if they move Arraez it's for pitching. With an open DH spot, how much Baldelli and the FO like to rotate and sit players, and the injuries that will happen I'm not that worried about getting Arraez and Miranda ABs. It won't be 500 ABs each, but it'll be a bunch.

I'm just not a fan of glove only players in the 3 true outcome era of the game. Defense will always be important, but it's not as important as it used to be, and I don't really see any reason to believe K-F will improve his hitting. He's been pretty darn consistent. He basically is who he is at this point. And that's a poor man's Andrelton Simmons (in his prime). Singles hitting, no power SS with a good glove. But K-F isn't Simmons in his prime with the glove. Solid backup infielder is all I see. Not trading a starting quality IFer for a backup quality IFer when the team has much bigger needs and can fill the SS hole with a cheap FA signing if they're not going with Correa or Story at this point.

I actually have no problem believing that (assuming relative health), the Twins would have 10-12 guys get to 500 PAs next year.  The Twins have been over 6k PAs each of the last 4 full seasons.  If you assume 125 games is sufficient to hit 500 PAs, that means a guy could have 3 stints on the IL, get 7 extra days of rest, and still hit that mark (that also assumes that the 10 day IL stint results in missing 10 games--it's more likely to be 8-9 games).

At this point, I count 8 established MLB players who I want to ensure get PAs; Buxton, Kepler, Kiriloff, Sano, Polanco, Donaldson, Arraez, and Garver.  Even if we add a FA every day shortstop, that leaves 1-3 spots open for Jeffers, Miranda, Larnach, and Rooker to get 500 PAs, and that assumes no long-term injuries for any of the list of 8.

Unless the Twins go out and sign Story and Correa, and also trade for an impact bat, getting enough PAs for everyone shouldn't be a problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Unless the Twins go out and sign Story and Correa, and also trade for an impact bat, getting enough PAs for everyone shouldn't be a problem.

My only problem with this thought is that if either the manager or front office start feeling like they're on the hot seat, we can about guarantee that the rookies get pushed aside for veterans regardless of how poor the veterans are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

My only problem with this thought is that if either the manager or front office start feeling like they're on the hot seat, we can about guarantee that the rookies get pushed aside for veterans regardless of how poor the veterans are.

The only people that think the FO or manager is on the hot seat is fans. How quickly we forget, Jim Pohlad gave the FO an A+ grade heading into the offseason. Their jobs are secure. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

I actually have no problem believing that (assuming relative health), the Twins would have 10-12 guys get to 500 PAs next year.  The Twins have been over 6k PAs each of the last 4 full seasons.  If you assume 125 games is sufficient to hit 500 PAs, that means a guy could have 3 stints on the IL, get 7 extra days of rest, and still hit that mark (that also assumes that the 10 day IL stint results in missing 10 games--it's more likely to be 8-9 games).

At this point, I count 8 established MLB players who I want to ensure get PAs; Buxton, Kepler, Kiriloff, Sano, Polanco, Donaldson, Arraez, and Garver.  Even if we add a FA every day shortstop, that leaves 1-3 spots open for Jeffers, Miranda, Larnach, and Rooker to get 500 PAs, and that assumes no long-term injuries for any of the list of 8.

Unless the Twins go out and sign Story and Correa, and also trade for an impact bat, getting enough PAs for everyone shouldn't be a problem.

Well now I feel even better about Miranda and Arraez both getting ABs next year! I hadn't looked at any numbers so thanks for that info!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

In a hypothetical world where Donaldson, Polanco, Arraez, and Miranda are all on the 26 man roster, I would set the over under for number of games all 4 are healthy at about 75, and still take the under.  Assuming the Twins don't roster a Cruzesque DH only type player, there will be no problem getting all 4 of those guys playing time, as 2 can play 2nd/3rd, one can DH 3-5 times a week, and the other will likely be hurt or can get days off.  This doesn't even consider that you can hide Arraez in LF once every week or so (especially with righties facing lefty-heavy lineups), and I'm sure you could train up Miranda to do the same if you really wanted to (he played 3 games in LF in 2021).

Finding at bats for all the guys in our projected lineup (at least right now) is not at all a concern for me.

Even when we get a SS? Has Arraez ever played at 1st? Miranda can play the 3 positions. And then Gordon? Don't forget to get him into the lineup from time to time, too. I thought that Sano would be DH/1B, with Kiriloff there, too, as well as LF ... Either someone in the infield is traded or Miranda starts the year in AAA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Even when we get a SS? Has Arraez ever played at 1st? Miranda can play the 3 positions. And then Gordon? Don't forget to get him into the lineup from time to time, too.

Not to mention Sano and Garver need time at 1B and DH (along with Kiriloff).

The Twins have too many (or the wrong mix of) corner players.....it's that simple. Good thing they keep using early draft picks on them.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, gman said:

The best way to get Arreaz/Moranda consistent at bats is to trade Donaldson. Why trade young guys with multiple years of team control to keep an older/ injury riddle player on the roster. Make a Donaldson trade that works and through in some cash if need be.

No, it doesn't. Neither Miranda nor Arraez is a starting 3B. Both are good bats but are not as good defensively as Donaldson. And Miranda has yet to hit major league pitching. Getting rid of Donaldson too soon solves nothing and makes the team worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

Not to mention Sano and Garver need time at 1B and DH (along with Kiriloff).

The Twins have too many (or the wrong mix of) corner players.....it's that simple. 

Forgot Garver ... but I edited my comment about Kiriloff. Yup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

The only people that think the FO or manager is on the hot seat is fans. How quickly we forget, Jim Pohlad gave the FO an A+ grade heading into the offseason. Their jobs are secure. 

The Twins were also surprisingly 19th in attendance last year, and fans in the stands = happy owner. That could change with another terrible start.

Molitor, who was basically Twins royalty, only got four years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What about finding a deal with Tampa Bay for Taylor Walls? He is out of luck in St. Petersburg. Walls has a good glove and gained MLB experience last year. Maybe the Rays would take Alerick Soularie or something similar for Walls. Soularie/similar player would not need to go on their 40 person roster. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

What about finding a deal with Tampa Bay for Taylor Walls? He is out of luck in St. Petersburg. Walls has a good glove and gained MLB experience last year. Maybe the Rays would take Alerick Soularie or something similar for Walls. Soularie/similar player would not need to go on their 40 person roster. 

Walls looks like another glove only player. Not bad as your backup infielder as he can play any position and brings a great glove, but I don't like glove only starters. He feels like an Ehire type guy. Same with Kiner-Falefa. Good players to have, but not what I'd call starter quality players on a contender.

As far as a trade is concerned, I'd prefer to move someone already on the 40 man since it's full and bringing him in means you're trading a prospect to get him plus have to put someone on waivers and risk losing them. I'd prefer to see if they'd take a Twins bench guy (Cave?) for their bench guy.

Edit: Just saw Cave was outrighted so I take back my suggestion of trading him for Walls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Even when we get a SS? Has Arraez ever played at 1st? Miranda can play the 3 positions. And then Gordon? Don't forget to get him into the lineup from time to time, too. I thought that Sano would be DH/1B, with Kiriloff there, too, as well as LF ... Either someone in the infield is traded or Miranda starts the year in AAA.

I don't think we need to lose sleep over if Nick Gordon is getting enough at bats--if Nick Gordon not getting enough PAs next year is a legitimate problem, something has gone very right, or very wrong.  I would imagine (given what we have now plus some reasonable assumptions) that the breakout could easily look like this.

C--Garver 4-5x a week (always against lefties), Jeffers 2-3x a week

1B--Sano 4-5x a week, Kiriloff 2-3x

2B--Polanco 6x a week, Arraez/Miranda 0-1x

SS--FA 6x a week, Polanco/Gordon/Miranda 0-1x

3B--Donaldson--4-5x a week, Arraez/Miranda 2-3x

LF--Larnach 4-5x a week, Kiriloff 1-2x, Arraez/Miranda 0-1x

CF--Buxton 6x a week, Kepler 0-1x

RF--Kepler 5-6x a week, Kiriloff 1-2x

DH--Donaldson 1-2x, Sano/Arraez/Buxton/Miranda/Kiriloff 1x

 

Here's how that would breakdown for each player, across the 26 week regular season (502 PAs needed to qualify for the batting title, assumes only 4 PAs per player per game--meaning these numbers are low)

Garver plays 4-5x a week, gets 16-20 PAs, 416-520 PAs

Jeffers plays 2-3x a week, gets 8-12 PAs, 208-312 PAs

Sano plays 5-6x a week, gets 20-24 PAs, 520-624 PAs

Kiriloff plays 5-7x a week, gets 20-28 PAs, 520-648 PAs

Polanco plays 6x a week, gets 624 PAs

Arraez plays 2-4x a week, gets 8-16 PAs, 208-416 PAs

Miranda plays 2-3x a week, gets 8-12 PAs, 208-312 PAs

SS plays 6x a week, gets 624 PAs

Donaldson plays 5-6x a week, gets 20-24 PAs, 520-624 PAs

Larnach plays 4-5x a week, gets 16-20 PAs, 416-520 PAs

Buxton plays 6x a week, gets 624 PAs

Kepler plays 6-7x a week, gets 24-28 PAs, 624-648 PAs

Gordon plays 0-1x a week (but gets 2-3 PH PAs a week), gets 2-7 PAs, 52-182 PAs

 

That's a 13 man roster, which is definitely the most position players the Twins will have.  Perhaps some of this seems low (particularly Arraez, Miranda, and Jeffers), but keep in mind that the above assumes zero IL stints (spoiler alert, that will not happen).  As soon as someone gets hurt, there will be plenty of PAs to go around, and that's the point; instead of having to give Drew Maggi (or his equivalent) more playing time when JD/JP/LA/JM inevitably get hurt, you just spread out amongst the other 3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

I don't think we need to lose sleep over if Nick Gordon is getting enough at bats--if Nick Gordon not getting enough PAs next year is a legitimate problem, something has gone very right, or very wrong.  I would imagine (given what we have now plus some reasonable assumptions) that the breakout could easily look like this.

C--Garver 4-5x a week (always against lefties), Jeffers 2-3x a week

1B--Sano 4-5x a week, Kiriloff 2-3x

2B--Polanco 6x a week, Arraez/Miranda 0-1x

SS--FA 6x a week, Polanco/Gordon/Miranda 0-1x

3B--Donaldson--4-5x a week, Arraez/Miranda 2-3x

LF--Larnach 4-5x a week, Kiriloff 1-2x, Arraez/Miranda 0-1x

CF--Buxton 6x a week, Kepler 0-1x

RF--Kepler 5-6x a week, Kiriloff 1-2x

DH--Donaldson 1-2x, Sano/Arraez/Buxton/Miranda/Kiriloff 1x

 

Here's how that would breakdown for each player, across the 26 week regular season (502 PAs needed to qualify for the batting title, assumes only 4 PAs per player per game--meaning these numbers are low)

Garver plays 4-5x a week, gets 16-20 PAs, 416-520 PAs

Jeffers plays 2-3x a week, gets 8-12 PAs, 208-312 PAs

Sano plays 5-6x a week, gets 20-24 PAs, 520-624 PAs

Kiriloff plays 5-7x a week, gets 20-28 PAs, 520-648 PAs

Polanco plays 6x a week, gets 624 PAs

Arraez plays 2-4x a week, gets 8-16 PAs, 208-416 PAs

Miranda plays 2-3x a week, gets 8-12 PAs, 208-312 PAs

SS plays 6x a week, gets 624 PAs

Donaldson plays 5-6x a week, gets 20-24 PAs, 520-624 PAs

Larnach plays 4-5x a week, gets 16-20 PAs, 416-520 PAs

Buxton plays 6x a week, gets 624 PAs

Kepler plays 6-7x a week, gets 24-28 PAs, 624-648 PAs

Gordon plays 0-1x a week (but gets 2-3 PH PAs a week), gets 2-7 PAs, 52-182 PAs

 

That's a 13 man roster, which is definitely the most position players the Twins will have.  Perhaps some of this seems low (particularly Arraez, Miranda, and Jeffers), but keep in mind that the above assumes zero IL stints (spoiler alert, that will not happen).  As soon as someone gets hurt, there will be plenty of PAs to go around, and that's the point; instead of having to give Drew Maggi (or his equivalent) more playing time when JD/JP/LA/JM inevitably get hurt, you just spread out amongst the other 3.

Garver will also get time at 1st and DH. And Gordon only playing 1/week? Hmm ... not sure this will happen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

Featured Video

×
×
  • Create New...