Reusse: Always are Angry Twins Followers

[Seth Stohs]

Reality from Fort Myers: Angry Twins followers | 1500 ESPN Twin Cities ? Minnesota Sports News & Opinion (Twins, Vikings, Wolves, Wild, Gophers) | Sportswire: Minnesota Twins

 

Patrick Reusse has been covering the Twins for a long time, but he's also been able to gauge the pulse of Twins fans through the years.

 

There were always a few in the '60s who occupied good seats at the Met and were relentless in booing Harmon Killebrew because he "struck out too much.''

 

He opines that there have always been angry fans and uses a 1970 Ron Perranoski story to illustrate that. He talks about how social media (specifically Twitter) can really bring it out too now.

 

I'm with Mr. Reusse on this statement:

 

ll of which is a way of saying that, even though the angry fans always have been out there, I'm astounded at the degree of vitriol that the Twins are facing among respondents in the ether world after two lousy seasons.

 

I always wonder why some people choose to be so venomous in their hate and disgust as to lash out so strongly. What I like about this article too is that Reusse breaks down the haters into four key categories (although some fans find something to complain about with everything):

 

1.) The Pohlads - some seem to think that getting a publicly-funded stadium ensured that there would be an endless supply of payroll.

2.) Terry Ryan can't rebuild - Rebuilding is not at option and Ryan violated that fans trust by not going after the best free agents.

3.) Ron Gardenhire's strategies are why the Twins lost 195 games the last two years. It had nothing to do with the barrage of injuries in 2011 and that starting pitching he was left with in 2012.

4.) Joe Mauer got his money and then didn't want to play... and even though he played more than any other point in his career, he still doesn't hit enough home runs. I would add now that although people wanted him to play more and not get regular days off as a catcher, those same people now complain that he isn't catching enough anymore.

 

So, which of those four categories do you fall into? Why are some of the fans out there so angry about baseball? I acknowledge that the last two years have been immensely disappointing, but I can't imagine it ever affecting me like it clearly does for so many.

[sorney]

I wouldn't fall into any of the specific categories per se, but if I had to choose, it would probably be #1. Getting a tax payer funded stadium, then only spending according to revenue streams, although makes good business sense, just rubs me the wrong way. I also know there are many companies that do the exact same thing, it's just a little more public and visible coming from the baseball team

[snepp]

I'll give myself 25% of #1. Not vitriolic, but their payroll shenanigans are certainly beginning to aggravate me.

[notoriousgod71]

1,3, and 4.

 

As for #2 I think Ryan can rebuild just fine. I just don't think he can or will make moves to get the Twins to the top.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'll give myself 25% of #1. Not vitriolic, but their payroll shenanigans are certainly beginning to aggravate me.

 

This (and a little of #2... Not that Ryan can't rebuild, I just don't like his approach to "bridge free agents"). I occasionally boil over because they had the ability to be better but didn't take it. I'm not asking for Zach Greinke. Hell, I'm not even asking for Anibal Sanchez. Saunders and Marcum in place of Pelfrey (not really against the Pelfrey signing, though) and Correia would have left me quite happy going into this season.

[Riverbrian]

I can honestly say... None of the above.

 

I've never really liked the uniforms. Can that be a category?

[Han Joelo]

None of the above as well. Did you see Anibel Sanchez get shelled in the WBC? Sort of kidding. What gets me is the inherent hypocrisy between #1 and #5 (Hicks on opening day). On the one hand you have people clamoring to spend more, and the other you have people who think it would be a waste of money to start Hicks' arb clock early. Are they the same people?

[cmathewson]

I think this board and the Strib board are not representative of the heart of Twins fans. More like fringe groups on either end of one rug.

 

The Strib board haters don't pay close attention to the team, but they have their "big money" hatred. If the team gets a new stadium, they should win it all every year. Anything less is a crime against the taxpayers. And Mauer is the chief perpetrator.

 

The other fringe, which I see on this board quite a bit, are people who don't pay close attention to the team, but think they can get everything they need to know from Fangraphs. They ignore trends and improvement, and find whatever negative stat they can to show how player X will suck this year. Then they multiply it out over the whole team and a 65-win team is born.

 

Unfortunately, we have the silent majority that makes up most of the rug, those who are routinely called cool-aid drinkers on this board. Folks like you and me are naturally optimistic, want to root for the team and not against it, and look for reasons to be optimistic.

 

For example, Aaron Hicks. We've had a long and ugly discussion about him in several places on this board. But only one poster had the courage to show her enthusiasm at what she sees: a star in the making--a quieter, switch hitting Torii Hunter with patience. The moment she posted it, there were a bunch of haters saying a) The Twins would be idiots to keep him in April because of salary and team control issues down the road he's not ready because he strikes out to much or whatever, c) he's had a couple of bad years in the minors so he's obviously not as good as the experts claim, or d) unlike all you optimists, I saw him play once and he went 0-4 with three strikeouts.

 

All the haters miss a crucial fact: The other candidates are either not ready (Benson) or not regulars (Mastroiani). So let's just accept the fact that he's the best player available right now and will likely win the job. And why not get excited about a BA top 100 prospect entering his rookie season? What is wrong with enjoying the thought of that?

 

The haters equate being negative to being critical. And somehow, if you're not critical, you're an idiot. News flash, you can be critical and still be positive. You can say Hicks has work to do on his outfield throws and still say he's an exciting player. You can pick apart his game and still say he's as good as Span right now and has much higher upside. That's the fun of being a fan. No player is perfect. All players fail two thirds of the time. But are they good enough to help the team win over the long season? If so, and you can provide good reasons why, stating them doesn't make you an idiot. It makes you smarter than the haters who paint in black and white, and mostly black.

[Gernzy]

I'm a little in #1. I wish we would have spent more money.

Biggest thing is haters are going to hate, no matter what. When we win the World Series next they're going to complain that we didn't sweep.

[snepp]

On the one hand you have people clamoring to spend more, and the other you have people who think it would be a waste of money to start Hicks' arb clock early. Are they the same people?

 

From what I've seen the vast majority of people who think Hicks should go down for a bit aren't concerned about money, just years.

[LimestoneBaggy]

I can understand the positions of Snepp and the RP completely--probably more so if I had paid any money for a public stadium--but being that I didn't, if I put myself in the management or ownership chair I can't say I would have done things too differently (other than spending a little more time looking at Marcum, Saunders, Jackson, [insert other bridge pitcher here], I can admit to much frustration in that). In the end, it's a business, and I think they are doing a pretty good job of trying to rebuild. Would I do things a little differently, sure, but I wouldn't have traded for Scott Diamond and even with regression, that was a great trade.

 

Outside the stadium issue, I don't understand the anger. I could go on, but that's probably pointless, I'm not trying to convince someone to change thier mind.

 

As to the Joe Mauer angst, some people can't help themselves. However, if a person really spent an hour scouring the journal articles about this work ethic, training, and otherwise, and they still hold that belief; well sir, some people are always trying to ice skate uphill....

[jun]

1 and 3.

[Seth Stohs]

I think cmathewson just illustrated the topic perfectly... Thank you for that!

[Brandon]

My only complaint is signing corriea to that 2nd year. I would have preferred the Twins spend more money and sign a better pitcher in that instance. I do think Pelfry is a capable 3 or 4 starter also another Middle IF and bench bat (though we may have a decent in house option here) Could have made this a .500 team. That would be better to watch.

[Willihammer]

So, which of those four categories do you fall into? Why are some of the fans out there so angry about baseball? I acknowledge that the last two years have been immensely disappointing, but I can't imagine it ever affecting me like it clearly does for so many.

 

You have a self-selecting sample, Seth. Only the charged fans will visit Twinsdaily and moreso, bother to login and post. Same goes for the Startribune comments for that matter. But that is stat speak, I apologize.

 

As for me, I fall into category 1

[twinsnorth49]

I guess I would fall into a bit of #1 and a bit of #2. Not from a taxpayers perspective, seeing as I'm not a resident, but from a fan's perspective that would like to see them live up to their 50% of revenue to payroll commitment, it's frustrating that they neglect that.

#2 doesn't come from any belief that Ryan can't rebuild, quite the opposite, I believe strongly that he can. I just feel disenchanted about him dropping anchor on this season despite words to the contrary last October and the fact I don't believe it was necessary or that it would have jeopordized anything in the future.

 

It's ok to be critical, it doesn't make you negative, or less of a fan, and there is nothing wrong with questioning others opinions to make sure they stand up to some basic logic. It also doesn't make you vitriolic.

[zenser]

I would have to say I fall into #1 and #3. I think TR does a nice job. Do I wish he would/could spend more money to get some better free agents? Yes. But I think that falls into #1. Like other posters have said, I, too, think that Marcum and Saunders would have been an improvement to Correia and Pelfrey. I agree that Correia for one year would be better than two years. I am kind of excited to see what Pelfrey can do though.

 

For #3, I feel that Gardy has a slow hook. I also don't like the fact that he seems to give the core players a day off on the same day leaving us with a weak lineup. I would prefer staggering the days off so we don't give away three outs at the bottom of the lineup. That is just my opinion.

[fairweather]

Put me in all those category's. I think you mistake honesty for anger. I will not pretend that this team isn't owned by an owner with more money than croesus. I won't pretend that Mauer didn't know that hitting 28 HR's in 09 would make him worth an extra 10 million a year. I won't pretend that he hit those HR's by accident. I won't pretend that he couldn't hit for power every year if he wasn't obsessed with batting title(which means crap in my opinion) Would I ever attack the players personally on twitter? NO. Would I ever use Twitter? NO. Do I let my disappointment in the Twins boil over into my everyday life? NO. But fact's are facts and this organization would do well to get some truly intelligent people running it who are passionate about winning a World Series.

[ThePuck]

Some #1...not the endless money part because that's the extreme end which I don't think is a fair assessment of anyone. Most everyone I've talked to that have payroll concerns seems to have issues with them not living up to the promises given to the fans concerning payroll...especially when they gave the reasons why they needed the new park. No one I know of think payroll should be unlimited.

 

Part of #2. I believe he can rebuild, I don't like the lies he told this offseason about this season. Then again, the lies weren't unexpected.

 

#3 doesn't apply. I haven't been a Gardy fan since 2007...for all the same reasons I'm not a fan of his now. Nothing to do with the last two seasons.

 

#4 definitely doesn't apply to me.

 

and none of it makes me angry.

[Guest USAFChief]

I don't fall into any of Reusse's "categories." I'd put myself into the category of "50-year Twins fan, who has gone to extraordinary lengths to religiously follow the team through thick and thin and who has spent a lot of time and money to do so. One who can no more stop loving baseball, or the Twins, than he can his family. As such, a fan who reserves the right to celebrate the good with joyous abandon and understands only one team wins the WS every year, but who also reserves the right to express his opinions when he perceives ownership, management, or players not doing everything they can to be that one team." The worst thing that can happen to a professional sports team isn't angry fans...it's apathy. At least there's people out there who still care enough to have some emotional response when their team loses 190 games over two seasons and there's ample evidence ownership and management haven't done everything in their power to prevent a repeat.

[Craig Arko]

None of the above.

[josecordoba]

1. I'm not in number 1. I would never be naive enough to think the Twins should jack the payroll up 40 Million Dollars to go from 67 Wins to 75 Wins. I also realize the Twins would never make up this type of revenue spent. I have sympathy for those who question moves like the Kevin Correria signing as not the best use of resources.

2. I have the most sympathy for position 2. I'm not Anti-Ryan. I would be open to arguments that the his past track-record is somewhat overrated due to a weak division along with the idea they have the same front office that led to our recent starting pitching debacles. Playoff Records are Small-Sample Size Galore.

3. Is Gardy a Joe Maddon like strategist? No-but he seems to keep the clubhouse together. I think it's silly to assume he's a radically different manager when they win 96 games versus 66 games.

4. These people are the most annoying. Mauer's durability up until 2011 was quite good. He led the league in OBP in 2012. He's projected by BBP to lead it again in 2013. I'll say again "If you don't resign a beloved hometown player with a potential Hall of Fame career ahead of him then it's time to shut down Baseball in Minnesota". Even if Mauer gives you 2 WARP the rest of the contract- the Twins had no other options.

[ThePuck]

Strange thing is, Reusse has always been Mr. Negative. It's funny HE comes out complaining about fans' negativity.

[Willihammer]

Strange thing is, Reusse has always been Mr. Negative. It's funny HE comes out complaining about fans' negativity.

 

He's been losing weight ever since Dark Star died. Might be he has a whole new rosy outlook on life now.

[gunnarthor]

Strange thing is, Reusse has always been Mr. Negative. It's funny HE comes out complaining about fans' negativity.

 

You know, I'd actually disagree with this. Reusse has always been a baseball guy first and foremost. I remember reading some of his columns in the 90s and he was trying to talk himself into Matt Walbeck and Rich Becker and he'd often write about how wonderful it would be if the Twins had a Camden yards of their own. He's pretty plugged into the Twins and has stood up to defend Mauer multiple times. He's not afraid to criticize of course but I think he's always been less negative toward the Twins than the other local teams when he writes.

[ThePuck]

You know, I'd actually disagree with this. Reusse has always been a baseball guy first and foremost. I remember reading some of his columns in the 90s and he was trying to talk himself into Matt Walbeck and Rich Becker and he'd often write about how wonderful it would be if the Twins had a Camden yards of their own. He's pretty plugged into the Twins and has stood up to defend Mauer multiple times. He's not afraid to criticize of course but I think he's always been less negative toward the Twins than the other local teams when he writes.

 

Bert tore him a new one on Twitter as being extremely negative after Reusse said the Vikings announcers are so homerish they'd fit right in on FSN.

 

“@1500ESPN_Reusse

Very interesting

that a guy like you can consistently criticize others when you played what sport? You are Mr. Negative!”

“@1500ESPN_Reusse

For years

you have been a writer that always looks for the negative. Keep up the good work because you are good at it!”

“@1500ESPN_Reusse

I believe

weather baseball, football or whatever sport, fans want to hear positive. The ones that don’t, listen to YOU!”

[Physics Guy]

 

I've never really liked the uniforms. Can that be a category?

 

Agree somewhat in that l don't like the ones they wore for the their championship seasons. I have never liked the lower case m hats and have never owned one. I was happy to see them bring back the TC logo. The new road uniforms are fine and a significant upgrade to the gray with pinstripes. I really wish they would make the Saturday throwbacks their full-time home uniforms. They could then use the old powder-blues as an alternate (just kidding).

[gunnarthor]

As for the article, I guess I'm bummed about the payroll but I believe that falls on ownership. I have absolute trust in Ryan and Gardy to turn the team around and I've always liked following the minor leagues so I'm happy to watch a rebuild. Last year's adopt a prospect thing was fun and Hicks (my prospect!) turned out to have a great year. So I guess I'm usually pretty optimistic about the team.

[gunnarthor]

Bert tore him a new one on Twitter as being extremely negative after Reusse said the Vikings announcers are so homerish they'd fit right in on FSN.

 

Yeah I remember something about that. Bert also plucked him with a baseball back in the day. I'm not saying Reusse is a Twins cheerleader or apologist but he usually seems fair in his assessments and (in general) tries to see a good path forward.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think angry is the right word for me. Disappointed and annoyed. If I didn't care, as USAChief points out, that would be worse....and I'm bordering on that this year. They all have the right to run their business the way they want, but I also have the right to completely disagree if I want. For example, if they don't want to have a competitive payroll, that is their business. But then they should pay extra taxes to pay back the taxpayers of Hennepin county. They can choose their payroll, but if it is below baseball inflation adusted dome days, they should pay us back. Their choice, their business. But, the taxes are not my choice, I have to pay them while they pocket the money. I guess I am perplexed anyone is NOT annoyed by that.

 

Feel free to run the Twins they way you want, but if you are going to say publicly you will be active in pursuing pitchers, don't expect people to sing Halleluia at this offseason. Would it be better for them if I said nothing, and did not care? I don't think so.