What to do with Lewis Thorpe?

[Seansy]

Lewis Thorpe is out of options. The Twins either need to keep him on the MLB team as their 5th starter or as a reliever out of the bullpen or expose him to waivers when sending him down. Given his prospect pedigree I'm almost certain some rebuilding team will grab him and throw him out there to see if they can get something out of him if he gets exposed to the waiver wire so the question is as follows:

 

If Thorpe doesn't impress at ST for a 5th starters job or even a BP role do you expose him to waivers or keep him and hope he you can fix his issues during the year?

 

Let me know your thoughts!

[bighat]

Expose him to waivers and let the Pirates, Royals, or Rockies take Thorpe if they want. Personally, I've seen enough. Wish the guy the best of luck but I can't see a place for him on this team.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's 100% dependent on his velocity. He simply cannot survive at 90mph (or even lower, as he was at times this season).

[Rosterman]

Like Littell, Thorpe is almost too young to give up on. He's a lefty. If he can transition to the bullpen, you keep him. Talk about a hardluck career. Two years of non-play. And 2020.

[4twinsJA]

Can't protect everyone, think there are others with more potential. Thorpe was not impressive this year. I would put him behind Littel and Twins will probably only offer Littel minor league contract. Rather see Twins move on to prospects or find another Wisler. Will be cheap FAs also.

[mikelink45]

DFA - he has not shown enough promise.  Let Tampa Bay take him and fix him. 

[spsdrock]

Put him in the bullpen and make him your Long reliever/emergency starter.  If you sign someone else then DFA him.  No need to shed him now. 

[Shaitan]

That's what Spring Training is for. Hopefully we get one next year.

[rdehring]

Certainly keep him around until spring to see if the Thorpe of 2019 returns. On the other hand, should 40-man roster spots be at a premium, I can see him being amongst the first to be moved off the roster.

 

What none of us knows is whether or not there was a reason for last summer's poor performances. Was there some type of injury he was pitching thru?

[nicksaviking]

I've read this story a million times. Another team takes a flyer on a left-handed former fringe starting prospect and he thrives in the pen.

 

This story probably doesn't end well if his velocity is gone for good, but those fourseamer/slider combo lefties are the guys you'd often put in the extra time to see if you can turn it around.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Are we sure Thorpe won't be eligible for a 4th option year? If a player uses all 3 options before they've played 5 "full seasons" as a pro, they are typically eligible for a 4th option.

 

It may depend on how they handle the 2020 season, since traditionally they've defined a "full season" as 90 days on the active roster, but the 2020 season was less than 90 days long. 

 

Here's further elaboration on the rule:

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3521

 

 

Most players get only three minor league options, but a player who has accrued less than five "full seasons" is eligible for a 4th minor league option.

For the purpose of determining eligibility for a 4th minor league option, a player accrues a "full season" when he spends at least 90 days on the Active List of an MLB and/or minor league club or clubs in a given season... or (beginning with the 2012 season) spends at least 30 days but less than 90 days on the Active List of an MLB and/or minor league club or clubs followed by an Injured List assignment where the combined time spent on the Active List and the Injured List equals at least 90 days.

 

By my count, Thorpe may have only had 4 "full seasons" by this criteria, entering 2020:

 

2014

2017

2018

2019

 

He played in 2013 but had less than 90 days active (he was in rookie league ball, whose seasons are generally less than 90 days long). Then in March 2015, he had Tommy John surgery and missed the 2015 and 2016 seasons completely, so they don't count as full seasons either (zero days active).

 

If 2020 counts as a "full season" despite being less than 90 days, then Thorpe would have 5 "full seasons" as a pro and would indeed be out of options in 2021. But if 2020 doesn't count as a "full season", Thorpe should be eligible for a 4th option in 2021.

[Seansy]

I used the options listed at Fangraphs and given how they've prorated so much else for the season for 2020 there is no reason for me to believe they wouldn't do the same for 2020 for a 4th option year. If anyone else can clarify feel free to do so but this is my current understanding.

Are we sure Thorpe won't be eligible for a 4th option year? If a player uses all 3 options before they've played 5 "full seasons" as a pro, they are typically eligible for a 4th option.

 

It may depend on how they handle the 2020 season, since traditionally they've defined a "full season" as 90 days on the active roster, but the 2020 season was less than 90 days long. 

 

Here's further elaboration on the rule:

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3521

 

 

By my count, Thorpe may have only had 4 "full seasons" by this criteria, entering 2020:

 

2014

2017

2018

2019

 

He played in 2013 but had less than 90 days active (he was in rookie league ball, whose seasons are generally less than 90 days long). Then in March 2015, he had Tommy John surgery and missed the 2015 and 2016 seasons completely, so they don't count as full seasons either (zero days active).

 

If 2020 counts as a "full season" despite being less than 90 days, then Thorpe would have 5 "full seasons" as a pro and would indeed be out of options in 2021. But if 2020 doesn't count as a "full season", Thorpe should be eligible for a 4th option in 2021.

 

 

 

[Seansy]

Pretty split so far but my vote would be to keep him unless his FB velocity remains at 90MPH or less. As we saw, he got batted around pretty badly at that velocity this year. If he's at 91+ he can, at a minimum, eat up bulk innings as a long reliever in the hopes you can help him work through his issues.

Personally I hope they don't give up on him after 1 bad year but we shall see.

[Joey Self]

I guess this is a decision that has to be made before signing free agents or making trades that would require moving someone from the 40 man roster?

If so, I'm reminded of what a stockbroker once told me when I said I was going to pass on what he was offering:  "You can't kiss all the pretty girls."  

I know I TRIED when I was young...

 

JcS

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I used the options listed at Fangraphs and given how they've prorated so much else for the season for 2020 there is no reason for me to believe they wouldn't do the same for 2020 for a 4th option year. If anyone else can clarify feel free to do so but this is my current understanding.

Given the complexity of the 4th option year calculation, sites like Fangraphs usually don't reflect it until it has been announced for a particular player.

 

MLB has prorated salary and service time this year, but to my knowledge, they haven't prorated anything in regards to minor league options. Like the 20 day minimum to count as an option year. Littell spent about 11 days on optional assignment in 2020, which would be about 30 prorated, but I don't think he burned an option this year. (Obviously not particularly relevant until we, or someone else, adds him back to a 40-man roster.)

 

And since minor league development was essentially halted for 2020, it seems like teams might want to claim an extra option year for 2021 wherever possible. The players likely wouldn't stand for too many of them being affected -- hence 2020 counts like a normal year towards minor league free agency and the Rule 5 draft -- but there are probably only a handful of guys in special circumstances like Littell or Thorpe.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if MLB didn't even have an agreement on this yet! But I'd expect we would know by the Rule 5 roster protection deadline in a couple weeks.

[Otto von Ballpark]

On further reflection, Thorpe spent quite a bit of time on the MLB roster in 2020 -- 30 days, by my count. Prorated by games, that could equal 81 days MLB service time.

 

If they use that number as the basis for determining a full pro season for 4th option purposes, then you'd think Thorpe would pass 90 days easily: 81 days MLB, plus 37 days on optional assignment.

 

FWIW, my favorite reference for these rules, the Cub Reporter, isn't sure yet either. Here's the note on that site about the Cubs:

 

https://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3521

 

 

 

CUBS ELIGIBLE FOR 4TH MINOR LEAGUE OPTION: (updated 7-23-2020)
NONE
NOTE: If the 2020 minor league season is not considered to be a "qualified season" because it was canceled before it started, Adbert Alzolay will be eligible for a 4th minor league option in 2021 if his 3rd option is spent in 2020, Justin Steele will be eligible for a 4th minor league option in 2022 if his 3rd option is spent in 2021, Miguel Amaya and Manuel Rodriguez will be eligible for a 4th minor league option in 2023 if the 3rd option is spent in 2022, and Nico Hoerner will be eligible for a 4th minor league option in 2024 if his 3rd option is spent in 2023 (TBD).

 

I guess Adbert Alzolay of the Cubs is in a similar situation as Thorpe, in 4th option terms...