Week 17: Vikings vs Bears

[Badsmerf]

Like I said, I hadn't realized he'd been our GM this long. I thought he came along at about the same time as Zimmer. He does have some pluses as I mentioned but I won't object if we moved on.

A competitive Vikings team for the most part isn't bad. However, Tavaris Jackson, Christian Ponder, terrible offensive line his whole time with the team, mediocre results besides am anomaly with Favre and last year, spending to the cap whey single year. I just don't see how Spielman survives.

[TheLeviathan]

I think the talent is there and underperforming. Which puts the onus on the coach.

 

I've been in his corner since day 1, but I think firing Zimmer is justified. I'd keep Spielman.

[Badsmerf]

I think the talent is there and underperforming. Which puts the onus on the coach.

 

I've been in his corner since day 1, but I think firing Zimmer is justified. I'd keep Spielman.

I guess I'm just done with mediocrity. That has been the onus of Spielman. I like a lot of things Zimmer does. He does leave some things to be desired, but for the most part is solid. Ultimately, I sort of feel like the great talent this team has its unable to cover for the deficiencies.

 

I'm not an expert. I don't get to watch all the film. I did have high expectations for this team and they underachieved by any measure. There needs to be consequences.

[one_eyed_jack]

 

I think the talent is there and underperforming. Which puts the onus on the coach.

I've been in his corner since day 1, but I think firing Zimmer is justified. I'd keep Spielman.

 

A thousand times this.  With the amount of talent on this team, 8 wins is simply not an acceptable result.  Too often looked not ready to play.   This team was supposed to contend for a Super Bowl and got smacked around on their home turf by the Buffalo Bills, who had only 1 other road win all season, and looked completely unprepared in a must-win game at home today. 

 

For having a dynamic receiving duo in Diggs/Thielen, a back in Cook who can make things happen and a credible QB in Cousins, they struggled to move the ball way too often.  The defense played well for much of the season, but couldn't make plays when they were needed most.

 

I'm generally not one of those knee-jerk "FIRE THE COACH!!!!" guys, I think that's done too often in sports in general not because it's the smart move, but because its the easy move.  But here it seems to me that the players have grown tired to Zimmer's schtick, and it's time to stop looking at the orchestra and start looking at the conductor.

 

[Vanimal46]

I think the talent is there and underperforming. Which puts the onus on the coach.

 

I've been in his corner since day 1, but I think firing Zimmer is justified. I'd keep Spielman.

I'm with you. Zimmer continues to be out coached by every good team and it's time for him to go.

 

However, when a GM makes a bold move such as signing KC to a fully guaranteed contract he's also on the hook when things don't pan out. It comes with the territory of making such a bold move. He should be out too IMO.

[Badsmerf]

What does firing Zimmer accomplish? Sure, the talent makes them competitive. Remember, this is the NFL, and the fate of teams can change very quickly. It has been obviously from the beginning, this team wasn't a serious threat. I can put some things on Zimmer, but I don't think this team is built to win a championship, and that is on Spielman.

 

Zimmer isn't faultless, but winning games in the NFL is hard. Look at other franchises and the coaches they go through. Zimmer has been pretty successful. I don't find enough fault in Zimmer to give him the axe. Again, the construction on this roster is on Spielman, and despite the talent, it was unable to accommodate the holes. An ongoing trend for Spielman.

 

The Vikings need to decide who they are, and who is going to move them forward.

[Vanimal46]

Firing Zimmer accomplishes the fact that this team is consistently out coached and not prepared for big games.

[Badsmerf]

Where do you go from Zimmer? I'm not a huge Zimmer guy, but new coaches in the NFL continue to prove making a coaching change isn't always the best option. Zimmer hated the offense this year, and fired the coordinator more than halfway through the year.

 

I look at this year for the Vikings, and just think this wasn't the year. Too many issues. Cook not being healthy to begin the year, offensive coordinator sucking, OL sucking, LBs sucking, Rhodes begging hurt often, special teams anemic, no defensive takeaways. There is some good talent on this team, but it takes more than that to win big games, and this team never won big games. Maybe you can put that on Zimmer.

[TheLeviathan]

Zimmer runs the defense, has been given the vast majority of high picks to stock it, and several free agents. For all that investment we got medocrity.

 

I like Zimmer, but I'm not sure he earned staying.

 

Spielman's draft record is pretty damn impressive. Careful what you wish for if you fire him.

[TheLeviathan]

Where do you go from Zimmer? I'm not a huge Zimmer guy, but new coaches in the NFL continue to prove making a coaching change isn't always the best option. Zimmer hated the offense this year, and fired the coordinator more than halfway through the year.

I look at this year for the Vikings, and just think this wasn't the year. Too many issues. Cook not being healthy to begin the year, offensive coordinator sucking, OL sucking, LBs sucking, Rhodes begging hurt often, special teams anemic, no defensive takeaways. There is some good talent on this team, but it takes more than that to win big games, and this team never won big games. Maybe you can put that on Zimmer.

Zimmer wants a 1970s offense. That might be the biggest strike against him.

[Badsmerf]

Firing Zimmer accomplishes the fact that this team is consistently out coached and not prepared for big games.

Were they outcoached tonight? I don't think so. I think they just played poorly. Maybe the Vikings are overrated? Where was Everson Griffen? Where was Harrison Smith? Where was Richardson, Joseph, the entire offense? I refuse to believe if they were coaches better Cousins would actually have 3 seconds to throw, Cook would actually have lanes to run into, and Anthony Barr would be able to pay better defense. This team is deficient, has been from the start. A few really good players doesn't make up for a 55 man roster that just isn't sound.

 

Steelers just missed the playoffs too, and I really like Tomlin. Can't stand Rothlisberger, but it shows incomplete teams are hard to compensate for.

[Danchat]

FYI Spielman has been the main GM since 2012, before then he had a lower position in the front office and he wasn't running the draft from 06-11. Or, if you believe Wikipedia, he was "Vice president of player personnel/person In charge of not getting an offensive line".

 

I think they'll give the Zimmer/Spielman combo one more try in 2019 and see if they have what it takes. I like most of the personnel Spielman has on this team, but the O-line being an atrocity and Cousins' struggles might just be too much. As for Zimmer, his defensive schemes are consistently effective, but against the good teams he's usually outcoached and simply outplayed.

[Badsmerf]

Zimmer wants a 1970s offense. That might be the biggest strike against him.

True. I think there are ways to accomplish the idea of a running game without handing the ball off. Playcalling was bland again. No creativity or tempo. Running constantly isn't going to solve that, especially when the line is unable to create running lanes.

[Mr. Brooks]

Were they outcoached tonight? I don't think so. I think they just played poorly. Maybe the Vikings are overrated? Where was Everson Griffen? Where was Harrison Smith? Where was Richardson, Joseph, the entire offense? I refuse to believe if they were coaches better Cousins would actually have 3 seconds to throw, Cook would actually have lanes to run into, and Anthony Barr would be able to pay better defense. This team is deficient, has been from the start. A few really good players doesn't make up for a 55 man roster that just isn't sound.

 

Steelers just missed the playoffs too, and I really like Tomlin. Can't stand Rothlisberger, but it shows incomplete teams are hard to compensate for.

Tomlin has equity.

Zimmer has 1 playoff win in 5 years, and needed a Minneapolis miracle to get that.

 

I agree that Spielman has failed, I think he needs to go as well. But Zimmer isn't helping, this team is consistently unprepared and/or under motivated.

They had everything to play for today, the Bears had nothing to play for. Yet it was the Bears who played like their hair was on fire, and the Vikings who looked like they'd rather be napping. That's on the coaching staff.

[gunnarthor]

 

Zimmer wants a 1970s offense. That might be the biggest strike against him.

This. What we need is an offensive coordinator who knows how to use the talent we have instead of the talent we wish we had. DeFlippo wasn't the answer. With these guards, we weren't going to bulldoze anyone but our running plan all year has been pretty predictable. Let Zimmer coach up the defense but find someone who has equal footing to square up the offense. Co-head coaches or something. I don't care. But the skill positions are, on paper, good enough but they need to fix that line.

[Mr. Brooks]

BTW, team game, but Cousins now 4-25 against teams with winning records.

It's crazy how quickly I've gone from, "We got this guy for 2 more years!", to, "yikes, we got this guy for 2 more years..."

[Mr. Brooks]

This. What we need is an offensive coordinator who knows how to use the talent we have instead of the talent we wish we had. DeFlippo wasn't the answer. With these guards, we weren't going to bulldoze anyone but our running plan all year has been pretty predictable. Let Zimmer coach up the defense but find someone who has equal footing to square up the offense. Co-head coaches or something. I don't care. But the skill positions are, on paper, good enough but they need to fix that line.

It doesn't matter who the coordinator is, as long as Zimmer is undermining them. This offense was rolling early in the year, until Zimmer started micromanaging Flip. Changing coordinators worked for one game, then got worse than ever.

What good coordinator is going to come here with a potentially lame duck head coach breathing down their neck every call?

[Badsmerf]

It doesn't matter who the coordinator is, as long as Zimmer is undermining them. This offense was rolling early in the year, until Zimmer started micromanaging Flip. Changing coordinators worked for one game, then got worse than ever.

What good coordinator is going to come here with a potentially lame duck head coach breathing down their neck every call?

I'm not sure I'd say it was rolling. They beat up on bad teams, and cashed in on garbage time when losing.

 

Zimmer only became involved when it was blatantly obvious the game plan and play calling was flawed. We all knew there was a problem. It isn't like Zimmer was coming out of nowhere. The OL was eaten alive again tonight. I think it's tough to run an offense when the qb never has time to throw. Again, there was little creativity and attempt to get cousins out of the pocket.

[TheLeviathan]

Zimmer's defense wasn't good enough this year for him to have been so meddling in the offense.

 

I do think there is something to being outcoached too. Today the Bears beat us at home running preseason, vanilla stuff.

[one_eyed_jack]

 

 The OL was eaten alive again tonight. I think it's tough to run an offense when the qb never has time to throw.

 

Yes it's hard to understate the importance of this.  Cousins is getting a lot of flack for this but it's not like he had much of a chance to do anything. 

 

No QB looks good when they are under siege all night because the OL is getting worked over.

 

Look at Super Bowl 42.

 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

Yes it's hard to understate the importance of this.  Cousins is getting a lot of flack for this but it's not like he had much of a chance to do anything. 

 

No QB looks good when they are under siege all night because the OL is getting worked over.

 

Look at Super Bowl 42.

 

Space and Time is the key to everything. The QB at Eastern Illinois can complete a pass in the NFL if given enough time. 

 

If they are coming up the middle (they were coming up the middle) swing it outside until they have to adjust.  

 

Hats off to the Bears... They beat us. 

[nicksaviking]

 

Zimmer wants a 1970s offense. That might be the biggest strike against him.

 

That's the impression I first had when we heard reports that he wanted to run more, but I'm not sure that's exactly right. I might guess that he just didn't want the passing attack to be as lopsided as it was early in the year. 

 

But considering Zimmer has pretty much left the offense up to the coordinators throughout his tenure, I'd also guess that the reason he wanted to run more was because the offense wasn't taking any time off the clock with the pass heavy attack and it was putting the defense back on the field much too soon and much too often.

 

I'd roll with Zimmer one more year and try again to get a smart hot-shot young OC. If they pansy out and go to some un-creative retread because DeFilippo scared them off from trying to go modern, then they might as well just can everyone and start over.

[ashbury]

I'd also guess that the reason he wanted to run more was because the offense wasn't taking any time off the clock with the pass heavy attack and it was putting the defense back on the field much too soon and much too often.

On a three-and-out, the defense gets to rest more when the clock continues running after the running plays than they do when the clock stops after the incompletions?

[stringer bell]

Except for the QB position, the difference in talent in the NFL from the top to the bottom is small. Impartial observers think the the Vikings have top-level talent, but they aren’t so far separated that they can show up and win. Coaching matters, and while Zimmer is well-liked (especially by defensive players) he hasn’t shown himself to be an elite head coach. Should he come back? I suppose, because almost all of the team will be back next year. One more shot, I think, and the window closes tightly.

[nicksaviking]

 

On a three-and-out, the defense gets to rest more when the clock continues running after the running plays than they do when the clock stops after the incompletions?

 

Yeah a three and out isn't doing anyone any good any way you analyze it. I'd guess that he was looking for more of those longer sustained drives that tend to eat clock and give the defense a breather; those tend to feature more run.

 

Not that I'm in that camp. I want high flying offenses. I'm thinking Adam Theilen is thinking about the same as well.

 

And besides, that O-Line is not equipped for that kind of offense since holding penalties and sacks kill the long sustained drives.

[TheLeviathan]

Except for the QB position, the difference in talent in the NFL from the top to the bottom is small. Impartial observers think the the Vikings have top-level talent, but they aren’t so far separated that they can show up and win. Coaching matters, and while Zimmer is well-liked (especially by defensive players) he hasn’t shown himself to be an elite head coach. Should he come back? I suppose, because almost all of the team will be back next year. One more shot, I think, and the window closes tightly.

Both Spielman and Zimmer have one year left, so you are probably right.

 

Cutting Sendejo, Rudolph, and Remmers will give this team 30M in cap space. Griffin could also be cut for another 10M.

 

But the team will need TE, DT, LB, OG, and maybe WR on their shopping list.

 

O'Neill looks to have been a good pick, so that helps. Richardson may be willing to return too. I hope we're done with Rudolph though.

[nicksaviking]

 

Both Spielman and Zimmer have one year left, so you are probably right.

Cutting Sendejo, Rudolph, and Remmers will give this team 30M in cap space. Griffin could also be cut for another 10M.

But the team will need TE, DT, LB, OG, and maybe WR on their shopping list.

O'Neill looks to have been a good pick, so that helps. Richardson may be willing to return too. I hope we're done with Rudolph though.

 

I don't mind Rudolph but he'd have to take a huge paycut. Looking around the league, there were about 5 good TE this year. I'm not sure why, but for most teams it's just not a position of emphasis any longer. 

 

I know it's hard to do, but if they could just manage to get an above average LT they could probably see vast line improvements just by kicking Reiff inside or to RT.

 

I'm curious what they do at LB. I don't know that I like Wilson and Gideon enough to start with Kendricks.

[Vanimal46]

Spielman and Zimmer are both staying next season per Ian Rapaport. One more year to see if this can work...

[Mr. Brooks]

Spielman and Zimmer are both staying next season per Ian Rapaport. One more year to see if this can work...

I'm surprised, and disappointed by this.

I would have thought Zygi's expectations for this year would have been much higher than 8 wins and no playoffs.

Not sure at this time I'll bother to follow them next year. I feel like we've seen enough of these two. What makes them think next year they'll suddenly figure it all out?

[Badsmerf]

I'm surprised, and disappointed by this.

I would have thought Zygi's expectations for this year would have been much higher than 8 wins and no playoffs.

Not sure at this time I'll bother to follow them next year. I feel like we've seen enough of these two. What makes them think next year they'll suddenly figure it all out?

I don't think this team is that far away. There were some glaring holes the other talent wasn't able to accommodate for.