Jose Urena

[Thrylos]

 

Told ya...

 

How do y'all feel about that Castellanos bat flip tonight?

 

[Mike Sixel]

Turns out what you believe is wrong....

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/bob-gibsons-hit-batters-reputation-deceiving/c-266183960

[TheLeviathan]

 

How do y'all feel about that Castellanos bat flip tonight?

 

I'm going to spend the rest of the night wondering how bad our pitcher's grandchildren will suffer PTSD from the experience.

 

The horror.

[Thrylos]

 

I'm going to spend the rest of the night wondering how bad our pitcher's grandchildren will suffer PTSD from the experience.

 

The horror.

 

But sarcasm aside, you saw what happened at his next PA...

 

It is complicated...

[TheLeviathan]

It shouldn't be complicated.  And we know it doesn't have to be.  Other cultures play this game without any of this.

[biggentleben]

 

Turns out what you believe is wrong....

https://www.mlb.com/news/bob-gibsons-hit-batters-reputation-deceiving/c-266183960

 

Great piece...

[Riverbrian]

I'd like to see the suspensions increase to painful levels for this type of behavior. 6 days for a starting pitcher isn't much at all... But... If you don't want to lengthen the suspension... OK... then make it a team punishment and take the roster spot for the duration. Suspended pitcher remains on the 25 man roster, no replacement allowed. If you want the game to police itself with chin music, I'd say losing the roster spot would be safer and a more effective form of self policing from inside the dugout. Managers are going to stop calling for it, rogue players making decisions on their own will be dealt with by his manager, coaches and teammates.  

 

Acuna by all accounts wasn't showboating so this is... I don't know what this.

 

Under normal circumstances... A simple bat flip will result in a ball to the back. A pitcher fist pump after K... results in? 

 

Batters can't throw a bat at the mound but pitchers can throw at them. 

 

As far as I'm concerned... The commissioners office and MLBPA can get this game out of the stone age anytime now. 

 

 

[biggentleben]

 

Acuna by all accounts wasn't showboating so this is... I don't know what this.

 

 

He was overjoyed at the second home run of the game on Tuesday, and he did jump up and down a bit as soon as he hit it because he struck it VERY well. However, there was no grandstanding, and he hustled around the bases as he always does and then celebrated with his teammates once he got to home plate. I've seen that used as reason to plunk him. If that's true, then 90% of the guys in the game are going to be wearing 98 in the ribs.

[biggentleben]

My colleague at Call To The Pen put this out today, and I think it's especially thought-provoking today:

 

https://calltothepen.com/2018/08/17/ray-chapman-anniversary-reminder-nothing-changed/ 

[wavedog]

 

I'd like to see the suspensions increase to painful levels for this type of behavior. 6 days for a starting pitcher isn't much at all... But... If you don't want to lengthen the suspension... OK... then make it a team punishment and take the roster spot for the duration. Suspended pitcher remains on the 25 man roster, no replacement allowed. If you want the game to police itself with chin music, I'd say losing the roster spot would be safer and a more effective form of self policing from inside the dugout. Managers are going to stop calling for it, rogue players making decisions on their own will be dealt with by his manager, coaches and teammates.  

 

Acuna by all accounts wasn't showboating so this is... I don't know what this.

 

Under normal circumstances... A simple bat flip will result in a ball to the back. A pitcher fist pump after K... results in? 

 

Batters can't throw a bat at the mound but pitchers can throw at them. 

 

As far as I'm concerned... The commissioners office and MLBPA can get this game out of the stone age anytime now. 

Agree that the punishment in this case needed to be longer to set a tone that this is not tolerable.   We have made things safer on slides at Home Plate and 2nd base why not in this case as well.  The hard part in some cases is determining what is intentional or not.  In this case it would seem to be one of the more obvious ones - guys hits consecutive leadoff home runs  and he gets drilled on the first pitch.   For celebrating a home run with a bat flip - I am not sure a ball in the ribs is justified retribution.   Maybe a strikeout next at-bat with some double fist pumps would be better than putting a runner on base.   At some point a batter will take a bat out to settle the score.    

[USAFChief]

 

It shouldn't be complicated.  And we know it doesn't have to be.  Other cultures play this game without any of this.

You repeatedly assert this is a culteral thing...Urena is from the Dominican, no?

[jimmer]

If you believe the manager is involved in a decision to purposely bean a batter, maybe it's time to start suspending the manager too, instead of just the pitcher.

[Riverbrian]

 

He was overjoyed at the second home run of the game on Tuesday, and he did jump up and down a bit as soon as he hit it because he struck it VERY well. However, there was no grandstanding, and he hustled around the bases as he always does and then celebrated with his teammates once he got to home plate. I've seen that used as reason to plunk him. If that's true, then 90% of the guys in the game are going to be wearing 98 in the ribs.

 

The only debate on this issue for me is intent. There is never justification for intentional in my opinion. Even if Acuna stole his dog. Weather Acuna showed the slightest bit of emotion isn't something I will even consider. 

 

Determining weather it was intentional or not can be admittedly hard and I don't want the pitchers afraid to throw inside because the punishment is too hard for each accidental plunking but in this case, the decision came back pretty quickly,  so I assume that the MLB Office is convinced in regards to intent. 

 

So... in my conclusion... 6 days is way too light. The guidelines need to be amended. 

[Riverbrian]

 

Agree that the punishment in this case needed to be longer to set a tone that this is not tolerable.   We have made things safer on slides at Home Plate and 2nd base why not in this case as well.  The hard part in some cases is determining what is intentional or not.  In this case it would seem to be one of the more obvious ones - guys hits consecutive leadoff home runs  and he gets drilled on the first pitch.   For celebrating a home run with a bat flip - I am not sure a ball in the ribs is justified retribution.   Maybe a strikeout next at-bat with some double fist pumps would be better than putting a runner on base.   At some point a batter will take a bat out to settle the score.    

 

100% agreed

[TheLeviathan]

 

You repeatedly assert this is a culteral thing...Urena is from the Dominican, no?

 

Yes, is his manager?  

 

I'm not saying it's just white Americans on this issue.  Pedro is one of the worst mouthpieces for this childishness.  But clearly the Asian nations can play the game, have bat flips, have fun, and not feel the need to attack each other over it.

 

Anyone who thinks themselves old school should be upset that a player whose team was getting it's ass kicked decided to attack the other team physically rather than beat them on the field.  It's adult pouting.  Nothing more or less.  We can play baseball without it.

[Dman]

Yeah I always thought intentional beaning was cowardly.  I never could see why it "needed" to happen other than sour grapes.  Yet as the rules stand teams get away with it and will continue to get away with it.  I didn't like how Esco got hit by Porcello either.  I wish it wasn't wasn't part of the game as it really is ugly to watch guys get thrown at.  It can ruin\shorten careers see Kirby Pucket.  It is hard to prove intent even though we all have a good idea of what the thinking was.  i honestly don't know what they can do discourage it but I hope they come up with something effective soon.

[nicksaviking]

 

If you believe the manager is involved in a decision to purposely bean a batter, maybe it's time to start suspending the manager too, instead of just the pitcher.

 

Even if the manager wasn't involved, suspending the manager would still serve the same purpose. Who's going to try to plunk a batter knowing it's his boss who he's going to have to account to. You can bet any manager who may have previously been behind these actions or even turned a blind eye to them is going to start cracking down.

[wsnydes]

 

Players getting hit by pitches has always been part of the game.  Only the neo-sensitive crew make a big deal out of it.  Acuna can take his lumps with the rest of them.

 

Nolan Ryan hit 158 batters, and you can ask Robin Ventura what happens when you didn't like it.

 

Acuna is on my opponents fantasy team, so the timing worked out for me.

I'm not one to make a big deal out of beanings. While I think they had their place in the game at one point, when guys started tossing 100+ routinely it begins to be flat out stupid and downright dangerous. Even so, I generally don't get too bent out of shape about them. However, this one is different. First pitch? It's about as bush league as it gets. This sort of thing has no place in the game.

[jimmer]

I absolutely LOVE what Gardenhire said about the Acuna beaning! My favorite parts:

 

'“I hate that stuff,” he said. “It’s a nightmare. You could kill somebody. Just to open up (a game) like that? It’s ridiculous. Drill a guy because he’s hit a home run? Try to get him out. I thought it was blatant and ridiculous. Baseball has to handle that. That’s a joke, in my opinion.”

 

and this:

 

'“I would be mad enough, if I was their manager, I might start him tomorrow and lead him off just so they could smoke him — just because he did something so stupid,” Gardenhire said. “Throw at a kid like that just because he hit home runs? Come on.'

 

Now, I wouldn't actually condone beaning someone in retaliation.  I am opposed to beaning people on purpose no matter what, but the fact that even an old school manager like Gardy absolutely despised the beaning is great.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Even if the manager wasn't involved, suspending the manager would still serve the same purpose. Who's going to try to plunk a batter knowing it's his boss who he's going to have to account to. You can bet any manager who may have previously been behind these actions or even turned a blind eye to them is going to start cracking down.

 

12 games for the manager and the pitcher.  I bet we see a quick end to this nonsense.

[darin617]

They should be giving out minimum of 10 games for a starter's suspension. Depending on the situation like this it should be bumped up to 50 at maximum. That is on the low end for both numbers. A pitcher could possibly end a hitter career or in the worst case scenario could end up killing a hitter.

 

These things don't belong in the game. This may have not been an issue "back in the day" but times have changed.

[Thrylos]

 

It shouldn't be complicated.  And we know it doesn't have to be.  Other cultures play this game without any of this.

 

Urena is Dominican.  Acuna Venezuelan.  Plenty of Americans have been involved in beanings.

 

Which other cultures play this game without any of this?

 

If you are talking about minor leagues or their equivalent foreign leagues, that's a different story...

[TheLeviathan]

 

Urena is Dominican.  Acuna Venezuelan.  Plenty of Americans have been involved in beanings.

 

Which other cultures play this game without any of this?

 

If you are talking about minor leagues or their equivalent foreign leagues, that's a different story...

 

I think I already answered this in response to Chief.

[jimmer]

In completely predictable fashion, Urena dropped his appeal and started serving his suspension.  This means he won't be available to play against the Braves this weekend as he was scheduled to do.

 

Shocked, SHOCKED I say!

[biggentleben]

Acuna homers early against the Marlins.

 

Acuna plunked later in the game by the Marlins.

 

Most reasonable Braves fans are not upset.

 

Intention has a big, big thing with HBP.

[Thrylos]

 

Acuna homers early against the Marlins.

 

Acuna plunked later in the game by the Marlins.

 

Most reasonable Braves fans are not upset.

 

Intention has a big, big thing with HBP.

 

A. Did you see Acuna's celebration of his home run in his previous PA including his bat flip at the Marlins' ballpark?

 

B. Did you see where in the batter's box Acuna has been sitting when he was hit?  Half of his body was out of the box and on top of the home plate.

Here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[biggentleben]

 

A. Did you see Acuna's celebration of his home run in his previous PA including his bat flip at the Marlins' ballpark?

 

B. Did you see where in the batter's box Acuna has been sitting when he was hit?  Half of his body was out of the box and on top of the home plate.

Here:

 

 

LOL. No.

 

He was dancing as he came toward the plate, encouraged by his best friend and teammate pumping him up. MLB labeling it a "revenge home run" is clickbait for them, not what happened in game.

 

He has a full foot between him and the chalk on the inside of the box. Freddie Freeman is the only one who stands farther back in the box.

 

If you WANT him hit, you can say so. Don't bring out crap. Thankfully, the Marlins didn't this time.

[TheLeviathan]

Aruna celebrated a home-run?

 

We're on fire with threads we can merge with "Capital Punishment".......I can barely contain my horror for his jubilation.

[jkcarew]

Yeah I always thought intentional beaning was cowardly.  I never could see why it "needed" to happen other than sour grapes.  Yet as the rules stand teams get away with it and will continue to get away with it.  I didn't like how Esco got hit by Porcello either.  I wish it wasn't wasn't part of the game as it really is ugly to watch guys get thrown at.  It can ruin\shorten careers see Kirby Pucket.  It is hard to prove intent even though we all have a good idea of what the thinking was.  i honestly don't know what they can do discourage it but I hope they come up with something effective soon.

The beaning of Puckett at the end of his last year was absolutely unpreventable because it was completely accidental. And it had zero, zilch, nothing to do with the end of his career. I can’t think of one alleged intentional beaning in the history of baseball that caused a serious injury. Just guessing, I’d say considerably less than 5%...probably closer to one or two percent of HBP are even alleged to be intentional.

 

Having said that, I thought the Urena play was stupid.

[Mr. Brooks]

So you can't hurt someone intentionally beaning them? They can only be hurt when it's accidental?

I don't follow the logic on that.