Jose Urena

[biggentleben]

If you haven't seen this yet, check it out.

 

Ronald Acuna has been the hottest player in the game for the last week, hitting 8 home runs over the last 8 games, spanning from last Wednesday through this Tuesday. He'd hit a home run in 5 straight games and led off the game 3 straight games with a long ball.

 

Enter noted head-hunter Jose Urena. Urena has a sub-7% walk rate this season, but he leads the league in hit batsmen. Urena threw the hardest first pitch he's thrown this season, registering at either 97 or 98 miles per hour, depending on which gun you trust. The pitch was not nibbling inside. It was sent directly for the middle of Acuna's back. He happened to drop his elbow in attempting to get away, and the ball hit off the tip of his elbow.

 

Acuna was in obvious pain, spun away hard from the plate, and turned toward the field in an attempt to head to first, but as soon as he turned, Urena threw his glove down, looking for the fight. This led to both benches and both bullpens emptying to the field.

 

In the midst of everyone standing around doing a whole lot of nothing in the infield while the Braves trainers attempted to work with Acuna, Urena was jawing. He said something that incensed manager Brian Snitker, who knew Acuna's father and had Acuna at his dinner table as a young boy, pitcher Anibal Sanchez, who has taken a mentorship/surrogate father role with the young Venezuelan and Curacaoan players on the Braves, and Eric Young. Snitker was so pissed that he had to initially be held back by as many as 5 guys from going after Urena.

 

The umpires threw out Urena at that point, knowing that the game would not be safe to play with him still in it after whatever was just said (or whatever was just said deserved being tossed, either way, he was tossed immediately after whatever he said that sent off Snitker, Sanchez, and Young).

 

This needs to include a suspension. I saw Matt Carpenter's HBP as well last night, and that was a legit mistake pitch, but how can baseball complain about the issue of marketing players when a fun, exciting, youthful player like Acuna, and a white toast, appeal to the grinder community guy like Carpenter are the two hottest players in the game, and they both are removed due to being hit by pitches?

 

The fact that after warnings happened that Freddie Freeman was hit 5 innings later and the pitcher remained in the game blew my mind as well. Kevin Seitzer, nearly the most calm person in any baseball dugout, was out on the field screaming.

 

Not a good look for MLB last night in Atlanta.

[Brandon Warne]

Chicken****. Pure and simple.

[Vanimal46]

The Marlins are cowards. I hate this mentality in baseball. Absolutely hate it.

[Vanimal46]

Chicken****. Pure and simple.

The quotes from Mattingly and Urena after the game are chicken **** too.

 

"We talked with Jose right after the game and basically, he was saying, he knows the guy has been swinging the bat good," Mattingly said. "He was trying to get one close. He was trying to run it off in there, and that was the purpose of his pitch. That's exactly what he told us. I had talked with him before [the first inning]. It was like, 'This kid is swinging the bat good. We've got to figure out how to get him out, right?'"

 

Urena was not immediately ejected after the pitch. Instead, umpires conferred and ejected him a bit later.

 

"I try to come out to the game to get deep into a game," Urena said. "The first pitch you hit somebody. [The umpires] knew that was a mistake and they let me warm up. But those people, they got crazy and they started to attack me, and I don't know what they were looking for. I just backed up and tried to stick to my game plan."

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/ronald-acuna-jr-hit-by-pitch-leading-off-game/c-290497832

[jimmer]

Then frakin' Keith Hernandez (Mets announcer, not even his game) defended the beaning. Unbelievable.

[biggentleben]

 

The quotes from Mattingly and Urena after the game are chicken **** too.

"We talked with Jose right after the game and basically, he was saying, he knows the guy has been swinging the bat good," Mattingly said. "He was trying to get one close. He was trying to run it off in there, and that was the purpose of his pitch. That's exactly what he told us. I had talked with him before [the first inning]. It was like, 'This kid is swinging the bat good. We've got to figure out how to get him out, right?'"

Urena was not immediately ejected after the pitch. Instead, umpires conferred and ejected him a bit later.

"I try to come out to the game to get deep into a game," Urena said. "The first pitch you hit somebody. [The umpires] knew that was a mistake and they let me warm up. But those people, they got crazy and they started to attack me, and I don't know what they were looking for. I just backed up and tried to stick to my game plan."

https://www.mlb.com/news/ronald-acuna-jr-hit-by-pitch-leading-off-game/c-290497832

 

If you watch the video of the "brawl", there's an absolutely distinct moment as Urena is jawing that sets off those members of the Braves, and the umpire steps back and then warns both benches and tosses Urena. They weren't conferring at that moment. They had as things calmed down just before Urena started jawing again and brought people back out and broke up the initial conference the umps were having.

 

This wasn't a miss. The guy has a sub-7% walk rate. It was the HARDEST FIRST PITCH HE'S THROWN AS A MAJOR LEAGUE PITCHER. He didn't miss just off the plate and barely clip Acuna. This went for midsection, middle of the box. You don't "miss" to that point with the hardest fastball you've ever thrown.

[Vanimal46]

This wasn't a miss. The guy has a sub-7% walk rate. It was the HARDEST FIRST PITCH HE'S THROWN AS A MAJOR LEAGUE PITCHER. He didn't miss just off the plate and barely clip Acuna. This went for midsection, middle of the box. You don't "miss" to that point with the hardest fastball you've ever thrown.

It's bush league, no doubt about it. I hate that he did this because he's not good enough to beat Acuna straight up.

[slash129]

Players getting hit by pitches has always been part of the game.  Only the neo-sensitive crew make a big deal out of it.  Acuna can take his lumps with the rest of them.

 

Nolan Ryan hit 158 batters, and you can ask Robin Ventura what happens when you didn't like it.

 

Acuna is on my opponents fantasy team, so the timing worked out for me.

[FunnyPenguin]

This should be treated as an example, suspend Urena for like 50 games and hope others catch on

[slash129]

 

This should be treated as an example, suspend Urena for like 50 games and hope others catch on

 

Or Newcomb could just plunk Realmuto next time around

[biggentleben]

 

Players getting hit by pitches has always been part of the game.  Only the neo-sensitive crew make a big deal out of it.  Acuna can take his lumps with the rest of them.

 

Nolan Ryan hit 158 batters, and you can ask Robin Ventura what happens when you didn't like it.

 

Acuna is on my opponents fantasy team, so the timing worked out for me.

 

Nolan didn't have near that kind of control.

 

Also, utilizing fantasy is absolutely sickening. I want to say a lot of things that would be against TOS in response to that comment. I've had the pleasure of covering Ronald for years and getting to talk with him. EVER cheering for an injury or being in any way, shape, or form happy for it should cause some serious self-evaluation.

[jimmer]

Players getting hit by pitches has always been part of the game. Only the neo-sensitive crew make a big deal out of it. Acuna can take his lumps with the rest of them.

 

Nolan Ryan hit 158 batters, and you can ask Robin Ventura what happens when you didn't like it.

 

Acuna is on my opponents fantasy team, so the timing worked out for me.

wow

[biggentleben]

I had a good back and forth with someone who argued that Gibson and Drysdale wouldn't have backed away from this "pussified" generation. I then reminded him that best evidence we have is that both pitched in the mid-80s for most of their starts, rarely ever dialing up into the 90s and maxing out just in the mid-90s. The comparison is nothing like today's game.

 

The finale of that discussion was when I mentioned that #2 in HBP this year is Chris Sale. I found video of 3-4 of his HBPs, and he hit a toe on a sweeping slider or barely hit someone just off the plate. I could not find any Sale HBP where it was far inside.

 

I then found multiple Gibson and Drysdale HBP vids that showed them nibbling and that most of their "intimidation" was placed so far above the guy's head or so far behind his back that it was near-impossible for an HBP to happen.

[SF Twins Fan]

He definitely should be suspended. I can somewhat understand hitting someone if they're being unprofessional or taking liberties with their slides but to just hit someone because they're playing well is very bush league.

[slash129]

 

Nolan didn't have near that kind of control.

 

Also, utilizing fantasy is absolutely sickening. I want to say a lot of things that would be against TOS in response to that comment. I've had the pleasure of covering Ronald for years and getting to talk with him. EVER cheering for an injury or being in any way, shape, or form happy for it should cause some serious self-evaluation.

 

Just because it's personal for you doesn't mean that this HBP is any worse than the hundreds of other on-purpose HBPs.

 

I was at a game this year when Porcello beaned Escobar in his first PA when he was on fire at the time.  The boo birds came out for Porcello, as well as many other expletives.  When Betts came up, some people yelled out "hit him".  Didn't happen, but now it's over.  This shouldn't be a story in a couple days, and calling for a suspension is asinine.

[Vanimal46]

There's no other dangerous 'weapon' in sports than a 97 MPH fastball aimed at your body.

 

Every other sport is working on improving player safety. Baseball will not move forward and gain popularity if this neanderthal bull**** is still around.

[slash129]

Look who's in the lineup for ATL today.

 

Much Ado About Nothing

[jkcarew]

I fear over-reactions in instances like this.  This one seems clearly intentional and worthy of punishment...

 

...but don't want to conclude that all hbp of 'hot hitters' are worthy of punishment.  They're not.  Some are and some aren't and that's what makes it tricky...need to rely on a subjective judgement.  How far in is a normal miss when trying to establish the inside corner?...and how far in is trying to hit the guy?  Do you only get to try to establish your fastball on the inside for guys that are zero for their last 15 at-bats?  Does it matter if the batter is standing on top of the plate or if the batter is guessing and diving over the plate?

 

Meanwhile, this particular pitch was nowhere near the head...so whatever your punishment sliding scale is for 'throwing at the batter', you need to allow room to the right of this instance to account for the elevated pitches.

[Vanimal46]

Look who's in the lineup for ATL today.

 

Much Ado About Nothing

We'll never agree on this. The point of this whole conversation is not whether Acuna is hurt for a period of time.

 

The point is Urena used a 97 MPH pitch as a weapon. For no other reason other than Acuna is hitting the ball well.

[Brandon]

I agree with the 50-80 game suspension.  There are accidents like the example above about Sale.  And there are some that may or may not be but when doubt about whether it is an accident or not is this strong in favor of it not being an accident then there should be punishment.  

 

nobody in this sport should be thrown at intentionally except maybe the Whitesox and Harrleson but seriously intentional beaning needs to have longer and more expensive penalties. 

 

I also think if a player has to be DL'd because of an intentional beaning then the pitcher should be suspended without pay until that player can play the field again.  That would go a long way toward ending intentional beaning,  also the decision of whether the beaning was intentional should have a decision process whether it be the commissioners office or umpires or arbitration panel and the decisions should include a chance for the pitcher to say their piece but the decisions should stand.   

[slash129]

 

but when doubt about whether it is an accident or not is this strong in favor of it not being an accident 

 

That's all subjective.  Urena's statement leaves reasonable doubt.  The fact that these journalists, yeah the ones making a big deal out of it to create a stir, can't even agree on the level of control that Urena supposedly has with his pitches casts further doubt.

 

The fact that the manager had dinner with Acuna's dad doesn't really matter.  Sanchez being the pseudo-daddy doesn't matter either.  

 

It's all a bunch of sensationalism due to the fact that Acuna has been a human highlight reel lately.

[biggentleben]

 

Look who's in the lineup for ATL today.

 

Much Ado About Nothing

 

Whether he was in the lineup or not, there's plenty ado about something here. Word from a Marlins scout is Urena may be unemployed soon. He was at a game with the Marlins PBO last night, and the PBO put in a call while they were having drinks to Mattingly's cell to let him know that he should watch his words more carefully because what just happened would not be acceptable in the organization.

 

If Mattingly's job is being threatened over this incident, it's plenty ado about something...

[biggentleben]

 

That's all subjective.  Urena's statement leaves reasonable doubt.  The fact that these journalists, yeah the ones making a big deal out of it to create a stir, can't even agree on the level of control that Urena supposedly has with his pitches casts further doubt.

 

The fact that the manager had dinner with Acuna's dad doesn't really matter.  Sanchez being the pseudo-daddy doesn't matter either.  

 

It's all a bunch of sensationalism due to the fact that Acuna has been a human highlight reel lately.

 

Urena's statement means jack. MLB offices confirm that most of the guys who say they failed a PED test taking a tainted supplement are telling the truth. How many of them have you believed? (Sidebar - that doesn't change their guilt or innocence on a failed PED test, just shows how horrid the supplement industry is, especially outside of this country)

 

I'm not talking sensationalism. I'm not sure why EY had more skin in the game than any other coach standing near when Urena spouted off. I explained why those two people would. As far as Urena's control, he's got a lower walk rate than any member of the Twins starting staff this year, with only Ervin's four starts being lower. He once had control issues, but those have progressively gotten better over his career. Oddly, his HBP rates have gone up as his walk rates have gone down. Care to explain the factual evidence that the guy's reputation as a head-hunter BEFORE this game was well-earned?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Players getting hit by pitches has always been part of the game.  Only the neo-sensitive crew make a big deal out of it.  Acuna can take his lumps with the rest of them.

 

Nolan Ryan hit 158 batters, and you can ask Robin Ventura what happens when you didn't like it.

 

Acuna is on my opponents fantasy team, so the timing worked out for me.

 

Bunk. Pure bunk. You can permanently injure someone with a baseball. People used to slide into second and intentionally spike players, should that come back too? People used to barrel roll slide and blow out knees, should that come back?

 

Intentionally trying to injure another human is never good.

 

There is nothing "neo sensitive" about it, it's plain wrong to try to hurt another human being. Why is that hard to understand? 

[TheLeviathan]

The only neo sensitivity I see is the punk who couldn't get a guy out so he tried to hurt him instead.

 

Fake tough guys are nothing but whiny and easily butt hurt.

 

If Joe in sales is kicking your ass you don't huck a stapler at him. That's called being a punk. (Or worse)

 

Baseball needs to grow up.

[Thrylos]

Acuna matata.

 

Thankfully the guy is ok and playing today.

The sky did not fall.

There will be more beanings, more hot dogging home runs and more discussion regarding it tomorrow.

 

Unless there is an objective way to determine intend it would be hard to pronounce people guilty.  Also, these days batters do not stand in the batter's box and have body parts hanging outside the box, making it practically impossible to pitch inside without hitting them.

 

On the other hand, if beaning someone resulted in a discrete disadvantage for the team that did it, like the opponent's manager can chose to take away a player from that team, it will definitely reduce beanings.. 

 

On the other side of that coin, if a batter has parts hanging over the inside line of the box, he should be charged with an automatic strike.

 

And over celebrating a home run, should be a 15-yard penalty an ejection.

 

It is more complicated than it seems.

[Vanimal46]

Acuna matata.

 

Thankfully the guy is ok and playing today.

The sky did not fall.

There will be more beanings, more hot dogging home runs and more discussion regarding it tomorrow.

 

Unless there is an objective way to determine intend it would be hard to pronounce people guilty. Also, these days batters do not stand in the batter's box and have body parts hanging outside the box, making it practically impossible to pitch inside without hitting them.

 

On the other hand, if beaning someone resulted in a discrete disadvantage for the team that did it, like the opponent's manager can chose to take away a player from that team, it will definitely reduce beanings..

 

On the other side of that coin, if a batter has parts hanging over the inside line of the box, he should be charged with an automatic strike.

 

And over celebrating a home run, should be a 15-yard penalty an ejection.

 

It is more complicated than it seems.

It's certainly complicated and a case by case basis. Perhaps there will be more clarity if they write down some of these unwritten rules on paper.

 

I know you were talking more in general and not this specific case. IMO the intent was there from Urena. From what I'm reading Acuna didn't pimp any HRs or disrespect the other team. Urena decided to take it in his own hands and unleash the fastest pitch he's ever thrown at Acuna. Just because Acuna is hitting well and doing what he's paid to do.

 

That's pathetic.

[TheLeviathan]

Celebrating a home-run only injures your ego if you let it.  Same for a pitcher celebrating a strikeout.

 

But a HBP?  A hitter has no such choice when beaned with a 97 mph heater.  Then it's just luck.

[Thrylos]

How do y'all feel about that Castellanos bat flip tonight?

[Thrylos]

 

 

It's certainly complicated and a case by case basis. Perhaps there will be more clarity if they write down some of these unwritten rules on paper.

I know you were talking more in general and not this specific case. IMO the intent was there from Urena. From what I'm reading Acuna didn't pimp any HRs or disrespect the other team. Urena decided to take it in his own hands and unleash the fastest pitch he's ever thrown at Acuna. Just because Acuna is hitting well and doing what he's paid to do.

That's pathetic.

 

I am talking in general about HBP.  Esp. when people are talking about 50 game suspensions.  Despite the fact that they are usually "ordered" by the manager....